Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

[Seabiscuit]

Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

I've been out a few more times hunting civil war relics since my last post! I thought I'd show you all some of my finds. Me, Rob & Dickie were diggin' out a trash pit only a few feet from each other. All 3 of us were diggin' up broken bottle parts when I uncovered part of one that was under a big tree root. I worked it slowly but in my mind I thought it was going to be broken. But as I pulled it out from under that root the whole thing was there! Man was I happy! I still can't believe in the middle of all those broken bottles there was still a good one waiting for me to find!
I did find it in the crouch's book. It's listed as a whiskey bottle. It has a seam that runs up the side & a concaved bottom. You can also see bubbles in the glass.
I also found a canteen neck with what looks like some letters scratched in it on both sides. Can't figure out what they are though.
Other things are 2 Eagle I coat buttons, 2 regular Eagle cuff buttons, a button back, a belt hook, a 69 cal bullet & 2 58's, a 32 cal S&W bullet with casing, misc lead, a percussion cap and 2 shoulder scale attachments. One still has the little turn knob on it.

 

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[tinpan]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

Seabisquit, VERY nice color on that bottle. Not pontiled, but almost. Pontils phased out just before the war. Show a pic of that one in a well lit window please!

Took it from this website.
http://www.antiquebottles.com/bottoms/. I would like to quote from them:

Before/during the Civil War, bottles had a pontil base.

good id and based on the top of the shard of the broken bottle this bottle was well after the CW Circa 1880 Refered to as an english black this bottle is not. Too green


nice find all the same tinpan

 

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[gleaner1]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

By the mid 60's, the snap case was taking over, some pontils did exist though. The molds remained unchanged and these bases are seen right up to machine-made. Many unearthed iron pontiled bottles show no sign of the black or rust colored iron residue left by the red-hot pontil, but there will be a dull "orange-peel" texture impressed into the glass. No specific term is given to non-pontil bases, they are simply designated as "smooth base". In this case, the mirror shine indicates the snap case and would be classified as a smooth base (with excellent olive/honey amber color!).

 

[pepperj]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

Hey Guys,
I'm no bottle expert by any means. But I do know this, I was 10' from him when he dug this bottle. And the spot we were digging was for sure a CW trash pit. There has been a lot of CW items dug in this spot over the last few weeks. Nothing has been recovered from this pit that was not CW related or from that time frame. I also saw this bottle with the same shape, top & seam up the side listed in Howard Crouch's book called "Civil War Artifacts". The glass shards in the second post with the top of a different type bottle are mine that I dug the same time & place he dug his. I was the one who took the pictures of it for him with my digital camera. So maybe my flash made the color a little off or put a shine on it?
I do have some other pictures I took but he did not use in his post, still on my PC. I will post them when I get home from work today. And if need be I will take more pictures of it in some other kind of light so my flash will not be needed.
But I really, really believe this bottle was put in the dump in the early 1860's by a CW soldier.
Just my observation.

If you go to this webpage and scroll down to the section with the bottles titiled
Tall, moderately slender bodied, straight neck early "Patent" style spirits cylinders (mid-19th century)
You will see they have a few bottles that look a lot like this one. With the same "dimpled" bottom (you must click on a link on the page to see the base) & date to the CW era.
Click here.
http://www.sha.org/bottle/liquor.htm

So is it a three piece mold?

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

Those persnickety pontils perplex people trying to place the period of the piece.
There is no doubt that the bottle is at least as old as the dump it was found in, of coarse. In other words, if a dump site was abandoned in say 1900, all bottles in it are at least from 1900, but could not be newer. If the bottle came out of a CW pit, it is almost 100% certain to be NO NEWER THAN THE PERIOD, simply because the chances are slim that someone came back years later and placed a bottle in that particular pit.
You may find an 1850's bottle in a 1940's dump, but you wont find a 1940's bottle deep in an 1850's dump.
Nobody is doubting the circumstances surrounding it's discovery, it surely is a CW relic.
You cannot truly be sure of a bottle's age based on whether or not it is pontiled. A lot of the bottles we see that come from offshore lacked pontils, even though they were made prior to the 1850's. In the US, some of the bottles we see from about late 1850's onward DO NOT HAVE PONTILS. I mentioned the "orange peel" effect caused by iron-pontils. This was confusing. I forgot to add that the mold itself may impart an "orange peel" affect to the base. The most important factor to consider in this case is that any really shiny base certainly could not be iron-pontiled.
Let's see some more close ups of the base to be sure.

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

rtde3, very good pics to help solve the question at hand. The bottle certainly is early, as indicated by the crudely applied lip. This is a smooth-base piece, no indication of iron pontil. The color appears more green in your pics, you can never trust colors of digital pics, they vary from camera to camera and screen to screen. I would be thrilled to display that one on my shelf. I cannot say that the piece is particularly valuable money-wise, but it's got character and historical value, and makes an excellent conversation piece. Great job and I hope you guys pull some more.

 

[pepperj]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

OK guys, here is some more pictures of the bottle & the one in the book I was talking about.
Like I said, I am no bottle expert. I did not know what a 3 piece mold or a pontils was before today.
This bottle does not appear to be a 3 piece mold bottle. It does not have a seam that run around the shoulder. Just up the sides.

Thanks for answering all the questions. Also mine regarding the three piece mold.
Still I like the reapers reflection in that one photo.

 

[peanut]

Re: Whole Civil War Bottle & More!

Nice digs!!!