Who Owns Legal Salvage Rights for Shipwreck?

[Magoopeter]

Treasure hunting and archaeology used to be the same thing,
I worked for three year on the Mary Rose project, which provided thousands of students an opportunity to learn hands on, it still does. Today it is part of the commercial life of Plymouth bringing thousands of visitors a year to Plymouth. They visit the Mary Rose Museum that employs people and spend money in local business around the town giving an added financial benefit to the town.
If the Mary Rose had of been left in situ in 1979 , none of the above benefits to education or people would ever have been possible, that what your losing and its not about keeping treasure hunters of it, it about some one seeing an opportunity to give themselves a reason to exist. UNESSCO, s

 

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[ROBOTCOP13]

Exactly.

 

[agflit]

I heard he took the US out of the UNESCO...

Yes..we did...Along with over 22% of UNESCO funding...

Hows that workin out for you guys?

 

[Alexandre]

Yes..we did...Along with over 22% of UNESCO funding...

Hows that workin out for you guys?

We're doing just fine and are glad that that bunchload of money that you have now saved will be used in free dental care for all US citizens.

 

[Alexandre]

If the Mary Rose had of been left in situ in 1979 , none of the above benefits to education or people would ever have been possible, that what your losing and its not about keeping treasure hunters of it, it about some one seeing an opportunity to give themselves a reason to exist. UNESSCO, s

If the Mary Rose had been "worked" by treasure hunters, it would have been gone - no Museum, no ship, no catalogs, no nothing. Very much like the shipwrecks "worked" in Cape Verde by the ex-Mary Rose director, the former archaeologist-turned-treasure-hunter Margaret Rule: there is nothing left but a pile of rotten, dismantled, timbers. Not a single (promised) report or book.

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

We're going to send all our old dentures to Europe, where they're needed.

 

[Bum Luck]

We're going to send all our old dentures to Europe, where they're needed.

Dentures? Isn't dental care about teeth?

 

[Magoopeter]

If the Mary Rose had been "worked" by treasure hunters, it would have been gone - no Museum, no ship, no catalogs, no nothing. Very much like the shipwrecks "worked" in Cape Verde by the ex-Mary Rose director, the former archaeologist-turned-treasure-hunter Margaret Rule: there is nothing left but a pile of rotten, dismantled, timbers. Not a single (promised) report or book.

Be very careful, you’re a very small fish in a very big pound. I don’t think anyone is going to miss you or even note your contribution to archaeology when you gone. Accusations towards the late Margret rule are totally untrue and deeply offensive. If it was not for treasure hunters Maritime archaeology would never exist.
Cape Verde | Arqueonautas Worldwide
Dr. Margaret Rule Tribute

 

[Honest Samuel]

But in the end its all completely useless because any value you salvage will be confiscated by A) the nation owning the water it sits in, B) the nation who owned the ship before it went down C) the insurance company who insured the vessel D) the heirs of every single person on board the ship. Pick above, or all.

One would need many lawyers and a lot of money to pay them to make contracts with all the above. Good luck.

 

[Alexandre]

What accusations? That she worked for a treasure hunting company and helped ransack, for instance, a US Navy ship?

She did all that. You want to see the documents?

Be very careful, you’re a very small fish in a very big pound. I don’t think anyone is going to miss you or even note your contribution to archaeology when you gone. Accusations towards the late Margret rule are totally untrue and deeply offensive. If it was not for treasure hunters Maritime archaeology would never exist.
Cape Verde | Arqueonautas Worldwide
Dr. Margaret Rule Tribute

 

[GreenHiker]

I didn't know Margaret, but she sounds like a practical lady with a deep love of preserving AND sharing history.

From her tribute that was linked above by Magoopeter, "Some campaigners favour leaving the remains untouched at the bottom of the sea. However, at 75 metres down what is one of Britain’s greatest wrecks has succumbed to looting, erosion and damage from fishing trawlers. To Margaret the world of marine archaeology was composed of those who do and those who don’t: she maintained a no-nonsense practical approach to the sunken past...To Margaret marine archaeology was a public resource, not an elitist realm solely for heritage managers and academics."

 

[Magoopeter]

What accusations? That she worked for a treasure hunting company and helped ransack, for instance, a US Navy ship?

She did all that. You want to see the documents?

Like I said your a very small fish.

 

[ARC]

Margaret Rule was made a Commander of the Order of the British Empire.
The National Maritime Museum awarded her its Caird Medal.
The University of Portsmouth named a new 342 bed student accommodation block Margaret Rule Hall after her.
And she was awarded the Colin Mcleod Award for "Furthering international co-operation in diving" by the British Sub Aqua Club.

Anyone here in this thread "measure up" to this ? ? ?

IF you do... then you can cast stones... until then... leave her alone.

 

[Bum Luck]

What is the negative effect?



They meant that it is protected from treasure hunting... All the other factors still apply.

Ok.

What is the "proper" disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then?

 

[Magoopeter]

The disposition is different depending on what law you have to observe.
Gold or silver, it depends on where you are and who has jurisdiction, the system of rules which a particular country or state recognizes as regulating the law of salvage or law of finds as some will take president over international law. I believe Mel Fisher won his rights to the Atocha under a Treasure Trove law, that was strange as that come an old English law that protected farmers from landlords, finders keepers sort of thing did not matter who owned the land it was who found the treasure, the Admiralty law of salvage protects the owner , even the law of finds protects the owner they both come from old English laws, starting with the law of finds and again involved Farmers.
But normally it should belong to ever owned at the time of sinking, or if an insurance claim was made against its loss and an insure paid out on the claim then they would own it. How ever if you can prove the owner has abandoned it then you can salvage it on behalf of the owner, for the salvage reward. If the insurance company or owner no longer exists then it is yours you may have to pay import duty and income tax on it depending were the shipwreck is. One thing to look into if an insurance company does not exist today, it might have been bought out rather than just disappeared in that case the company that took over the original company would have ownership.

 

[Bum Luck]

No, no, no!

I meant according to archaeologists.

 

[Alexandre]

“The late Dr Margaret Rule, the founding Chair of the Maritime Heritage Foundation Scientific Committee, was best known for her major role in directing the iconic excavation and recovery of Henry VIII’s flagship “Mary Rose“. However later in her career Dr Rule took the controversial position that the monetization of material from historic shipwrecks by commercial salvage companies was an acceptable position if it funded archaeological work. From 1999 Dr Rule was associated, in an advisory role, with another treasure hunting company Arqueonautas Worldwide, which has also been a business partner of Odyssey Marine Exploration.
In the year 2000, while Dr Rule was associated with the company as a member of its “Scientific Committee”, Arqueonautas sold material which had been raised without permission from the US Navy Sloop of War the “USS Yorktown”. This action resulted in an investigation by the US Departments of the Navy and State, which successfully demanded the return of the material.
The two companies, Odyssey and Arqueonautas, also collaborated on the legal, but in widely accepted archaeological terms unethical, sale of coins from the Portuguese ship Sao Jose lost off Mozambique.”


Noël Hume, Ivor (2010) “A Passion for the Past: The Odyssey of a Transatlantic Archaeologist”. University Of Virginia Press.

 

[xaos]

Sorry William 2020.

The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.

Unless your "friend" wants to spends $millions in an attempt to recover a bunch of old artefacts, I would suggest that your friend follows the extensive case law of Maritime Law on the Titanic.

In other subjects..Margaret Rule was an unabashed idiot....the work on the Mary Rose is basic, if not childish, on the recovery efforts and presentation of the data from the artefacts recovered.
There is little, to no, respect for her in the archaeological world...
she is famous for being famous, and little else....nothing more than a blowhard....she lost it (sorry to be blunt, but her mind) in many of the decisions she is credited for, and that is very, very evident.

 

[Bum Luck]

I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?

 

[Magoopeter]

Sorry William 2020.

The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.

Unless your "friend" wants to spends $millions in an attempt to recover a bunch of old artefacts, I would suggest that your friend follows the extensive case law of Maritime Law on the Titanic.

In other subjects..Margaret Rule was an unabashed idiot....the work on the Mary Rose is basic, if not childish, on the recovery efforts and presentation of the data from the artefacts recovered.
There is little, to no, respect for her in the archaeological world...
she is famous for being famous, and little else....nothing more than a blowhard....she lost it (sorry to be blunt, but her mind) in many of the decisions she is credited for, and that is very, very evident.

Did you ever meet Margaret Rule work with her or visits the Mary Rose museum, to see the work that was done, most recognise the Mary Rose as the most ambitious archaeological project ever under taken, and in that field they are seen as world leaders, they work with and help many other archaeological institutions and projects globally.
Today the HMS victory is left on the bottom of the English Channel, all for the lack of someone of Margret Rules character determination and vision.

What you’ve posted there is one person’s opinion, Margaret Rules role in MHF was a governmental advisor, to inform the British government not MHF, and I would say the other Scientific Committee was like wise but I can’t really comment for sure as I don’t know, but will ask.

Small Fish, I’d like to know what’s wrong with shipwrecks paying for themselves instead of the tax payer.

Id like to know what you two have done in your career that matches the Mary Rose Project, are you even qualified commercial divers?

I think you can talk the talk but don’t walk the walk.