BillA
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Ok Crow, who prevailed?
sounds like ambulance chasing
sounds like ambulance chasing
When a treasure legend becomes a reality.
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Crow
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Gidday Bill
I do not know the outcome as that is an index to the case. Charles A. Henderson it appears but not confirmed died aged 80 in Argentina in 1930.In a American consular report It was claimed he had family there and in Chicago.
As for this son of Captain Summers Howard F. Summers there is no trace of him? Other than the claims. It could of been a scam to get money off Charles A. Henderson?
Just like Fenn treasure where claimants are making claims against the finder. Money does these things to people. Greed and money are eager dance partners amigo.
Crow
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KANACKI
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Hola Amigos
Do not discount family rumors of fortune either. As this family in France discovered.
The mayor, Laurent Petit, said the three-storey building in the town centre had been lived in by four brothers and sisters without children. When the last died in his 90s last year a relative offered to sell the building to the town hall for €130,000. Morez, like many other towns in France, was seeking to buy up and renovate old buildings to attract families back to its emptying centre.
“The house was packed with objects and furniture,” Petit said. “There had been several generations who didn’t throw anything away, kept everything and lived really frugally. I agreed we’d buy the property as it was and we’d gradually empty its contents ourselves.”
When Covid-19 struck last spring and France was locked down, the east of France was heavily hit and plans for workers to tidy the building were put on hold. But Morez, near the Swiss border, had a glorious past as a historic manufacturing centre for clocks and spectacles and officials wanted to check if any items were of historic interest.
Senior staff, including the mayor, the head of services and the local museum head went in themselves. They followed social distancing rules, taking one floor each, and carefully sorted through boxes and cupboards.
“Three jars full of gold bars were sitting behind lots of other objects on a shelf,” the mayor said. “There was surprise and stupefaction. None of us had ever held a piece of gold. I’d only ever seen gold bars in photos, and thought they must be huge. But these were small, weighing 1kg and the size of a cigarette packet.”
The five gold bars and more than 1,000 gold coins were estimated to be worth €500,000.
The second find, which Petit announced to a surprised municipal council meeting this week, came recently when a safe found at the back of a cupboard behind cardboard boxes was broken open to find hundreds more gold coins worth up to €150,000. He said it was impossible to know who exactly in the family – involved in Morez’s clock and glasses industry – had first come into the fortune.
Petit said the elderly relative who sold the house was stoical about the find, which now belongs to the town hall. The seller had heard family rumours of hidden treasure but did not think it was still there. “He was very philosophical – he had heard about a stash of gold but thought it had been given away.”
The find is small compared with the town’s annual budget of €6m, but it will be spent on a special public project yet to be decided.
Kanacki
Do not discount family rumors of fortune either. As this family in France discovered.
The mayor, Laurent Petit, said the three-storey building in the town centre had been lived in by four brothers and sisters without children. When the last died in his 90s last year a relative offered to sell the building to the town hall for €130,000. Morez, like many other towns in France, was seeking to buy up and renovate old buildings to attract families back to its emptying centre.
“The house was packed with objects and furniture,” Petit said. “There had been several generations who didn’t throw anything away, kept everything and lived really frugally. I agreed we’d buy the property as it was and we’d gradually empty its contents ourselves.”
When Covid-19 struck last spring and France was locked down, the east of France was heavily hit and plans for workers to tidy the building were put on hold. But Morez, near the Swiss border, had a glorious past as a historic manufacturing centre for clocks and spectacles and officials wanted to check if any items were of historic interest.
Senior staff, including the mayor, the head of services and the local museum head went in themselves. They followed social distancing rules, taking one floor each, and carefully sorted through boxes and cupboards.
“Three jars full of gold bars were sitting behind lots of other objects on a shelf,” the mayor said. “There was surprise and stupefaction. None of us had ever held a piece of gold. I’d only ever seen gold bars in photos, and thought they must be huge. But these were small, weighing 1kg and the size of a cigarette packet.”
The five gold bars and more than 1,000 gold coins were estimated to be worth €500,000.
The second find, which Petit announced to a surprised municipal council meeting this week, came recently when a safe found at the back of a cupboard behind cardboard boxes was broken open to find hundreds more gold coins worth up to €150,000. He said it was impossible to know who exactly in the family – involved in Morez’s clock and glasses industry – had first come into the fortune.
Petit said the elderly relative who sold the house was stoical about the find, which now belongs to the town hall. The seller had heard family rumours of hidden treasure but did not think it was still there. “He was very philosophical – he had heard about a stash of gold but thought it had been given away.”
The find is small compared with the town’s annual budget of €6m, but it will be spent on a special public project yet to be decided.
Kanacki
Crow
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Gidday kanacki
One thing for sure I do have family with hidden wealth. Every time they visit me they come with their hand out.
Crow
BillA
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encountered buried treasures of interest, an interesting article which I cannot link to,?
Calatrava la Vieja four buried treasures in El País
Calatrava la Vieja four buried treasures in El País
Crow
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Gidday Bill look what ya done a simple post has left old Crow astray.....
While I was searching deeper on the place you mention I came across a book on myths and legends of Columbia.
Crow
While I was searching deeper on the place you mention I came across a book on myths and legends of Columbia.
Crow
BillA
Bronze Member
neat, so what does it say?Gidday Bill look what ya done a simple post has left old Crow astray.....
While I was searching deeper on the place you mention I came across a book on myths and legends of Columbia.
View attachment 1926803
Crow
btw, Vol II
the link was bad for me, Yandex browser
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Crow
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Gidday the link does not work for me for some reason. I cannot seen to find it again but in short. The link told in Spanish of stories in Spain places that have treasure legends to them connected to the Moors. The place you mentioned the old castle and fortified town that was one such place that tradition claims Moorish treasure was buried there? And there has been indeed several coin caches discovered there. In the picture below the partly read circle is where the latest Moorish coin cache has been found.
On a side note During the course of researching that I found the book of Colombian myths and legends. Slightly sidetracked but also interesting.
Crow
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Gidday amigos
Another treasure legend that turned out to be true. While for some misinterpreted El DEorado as a lost city of gold.
For the Musica tribe the legend of El Dorado was not a lost city but of a gilded man in gold dust called El Dorado that is rowed out on a raft in the middle of a mountain crater lake and dives into the lake washing the gold off as offering to the lake gods.
The legend of El Dorado and how it is closely tied Lake Guatavita. The Muisca tribe used to make sacrifices to their god by dumping piles of gold artifacts and gems into the lake. You may have wondered if anyone has ever tried to recover all the treasure from the bottom of the lake. Well, they have and there are certainly some stories to tell!
All noteworthy attempts to recover treasure from the lake began with trying to drain it. The first occurrence was in the 16th century by conquistadores Lázaro Fonte and Hernán Perez de Quesada. Here is Quesada below.
They had only limited resources, but went about their treasure hunting with gusto establishing a non-stop bucket chain of laborers. Despite their efforts, they only managed to lower the lake by three meters. Still, they managed to retrieve some gold (approximately $100,000). However, this was a small amount compared to what was believed to still lie at the bottom. An account of this effort dating back to 1551 is in the AGI archives Des Indies Spain.
Thirty-five years later, a much larger attempt was made to retrieve the treasures from Lake Guatavita by an entrepreneur named Antonio de Sepúlveda.
Foregoing the buckets of his predecessors, Sepúlveda cleaved into the rim to drain it. At first, this worked very well – draining the lake by as much as 20 meters. Unfortunately, the draining construction collapsed and killed many of Sepúlveda’s workers. He also did not fare as well at recovering gold artifacts – finding only about four times more than the previous expedition. Here is a description of his attempt below.
Pedro Simon gives the first documented account of the attempt on Lake Guatavita was by Antonio de Sepulveda, who obtained a royal licence to drain the lake, issued on 22 September 1562. He returned to New Granada and built huts alongside the lake and a boat for soundings. He assembled many Indians and set them to work, laboriously cutting a trench through which to drain the water. Pedro Simon said that he had to provide quantities of wine to keep his men working on that cold paramo.
Sepulveda managed to lower the lake level slightly and found some gold discs and emeralds in the mud at the edge of the lake. Further efforts took him deeper, towards the lake's centre, which was where everyone supposed that the valuable offerings were dropped. Juan Rodriguez Fresle wrote that Sepiilveda's cuttings could still be seen in his day in the 1630s. He wrote that 'a long time later [Sepulveda] continued to want to make another drainage, but could not. In the end he died poor and exhausted.
Pedro often conversed with him, and I helped bury him in the church of Guatavita.' Pedro Simon said that Sepulveda extracted 56,000 pesos of gold objects from Guatavita: Rodriguez Fresle said 12,000 pesos; but the original record of 22 June 1576 has now been found, and it records only '232 pesos and 10 grams of good gold'. In 1625 twelve people from the mining camp of Santa Ana applied for permission to search for treasure in the lake. They obtained the usual elaboratelegal documents, with permission to use as many Indians as they needed, 'paying them as they must be paid'. But nothing came of this, or of any other attempt during the centuries of colonial rule.
The last expedition was perhaps the most disastrous by far. It occurred in 1898 and was executed by a group of London contractors called “The Company for the Exploitation of the Lagoon of Guatavita.” They dug a tunnel that opened up in the center of the lake which drained it all the way down to a mere four feet. However, this did not make the lake easier to search – quite the opposite in fact. What was left of the lake was so much mud and slime, it was practically impossible to traverse. Worse yet, the sun soon baked the mud like cement, sealing the treasure off. Finding a mere 1000 dollars worth of gold, the company later went bankrupt.
Perhaps if man could have waited long enough for the invention of scuba gear, the priceless gold artifacts of Lake Guatavita may have all been recovered?
But regardless the legend of gilded man of Muisca legend turned out to be true. As you can see gold items above found in the lake and the artifact found in a cave on the lake shore.
So we can say this is another example of a treasure legend turning out to be true.Some of the gold found and recovered is now in the gold Museum of Bogota Columbia.
Crow
Another treasure legend that turned out to be true. While for some misinterpreted El DEorado as a lost city of gold.
For the Musica tribe the legend of El Dorado was not a lost city but of a gilded man in gold dust called El Dorado that is rowed out on a raft in the middle of a mountain crater lake and dives into the lake washing the gold off as offering to the lake gods.
The legend of El Dorado and how it is closely tied Lake Guatavita. The Muisca tribe used to make sacrifices to their god by dumping piles of gold artifacts and gems into the lake. You may have wondered if anyone has ever tried to recover all the treasure from the bottom of the lake. Well, they have and there are certainly some stories to tell!
All noteworthy attempts to recover treasure from the lake began with trying to drain it. The first occurrence was in the 16th century by conquistadores Lázaro Fonte and Hernán Perez de Quesada. Here is Quesada below.
They had only limited resources, but went about their treasure hunting with gusto establishing a non-stop bucket chain of laborers. Despite their efforts, they only managed to lower the lake by three meters. Still, they managed to retrieve some gold (approximately $100,000). However, this was a small amount compared to what was believed to still lie at the bottom. An account of this effort dating back to 1551 is in the AGI archives Des Indies Spain.
Thirty-five years later, a much larger attempt was made to retrieve the treasures from Lake Guatavita by an entrepreneur named Antonio de Sepúlveda.
Foregoing the buckets of his predecessors, Sepúlveda cleaved into the rim to drain it. At first, this worked very well – draining the lake by as much as 20 meters. Unfortunately, the draining construction collapsed and killed many of Sepúlveda’s workers. He also did not fare as well at recovering gold artifacts – finding only about four times more than the previous expedition. Here is a description of his attempt below.
Pedro Simon gives the first documented account of the attempt on Lake Guatavita was by Antonio de Sepulveda, who obtained a royal licence to drain the lake, issued on 22 September 1562. He returned to New Granada and built huts alongside the lake and a boat for soundings. He assembled many Indians and set them to work, laboriously cutting a trench through which to drain the water. Pedro Simon said that he had to provide quantities of wine to keep his men working on that cold paramo.
Sepulveda managed to lower the lake level slightly and found some gold discs and emeralds in the mud at the edge of the lake. Further efforts took him deeper, towards the lake's centre, which was where everyone supposed that the valuable offerings were dropped. Juan Rodriguez Fresle wrote that Sepiilveda's cuttings could still be seen in his day in the 1630s. He wrote that 'a long time later [Sepulveda] continued to want to make another drainage, but could not. In the end he died poor and exhausted.
Pedro often conversed with him, and I helped bury him in the church of Guatavita.' Pedro Simon said that Sepulveda extracted 56,000 pesos of gold objects from Guatavita: Rodriguez Fresle said 12,000 pesos; but the original record of 22 June 1576 has now been found, and it records only '232 pesos and 10 grams of good gold'. In 1625 twelve people from the mining camp of Santa Ana applied for permission to search for treasure in the lake. They obtained the usual elaboratelegal documents, with permission to use as many Indians as they needed, 'paying them as they must be paid'. But nothing came of this, or of any other attempt during the centuries of colonial rule.
The last expedition was perhaps the most disastrous by far. It occurred in 1898 and was executed by a group of London contractors called “The Company for the Exploitation of the Lagoon of Guatavita.” They dug a tunnel that opened up in the center of the lake which drained it all the way down to a mere four feet. However, this did not make the lake easier to search – quite the opposite in fact. What was left of the lake was so much mud and slime, it was practically impossible to traverse. Worse yet, the sun soon baked the mud like cement, sealing the treasure off. Finding a mere 1000 dollars worth of gold, the company later went bankrupt.
Perhaps if man could have waited long enough for the invention of scuba gear, the priceless gold artifacts of Lake Guatavita may have all been recovered?
But regardless the legend of gilded man of Muisca legend turned out to be true. As you can see gold items above found in the lake and the artifact found in a cave on the lake shore.
So we can say this is another example of a treasure legend turning out to be true.Some of the gold found and recovered is now in the gold Museum of Bogota Columbia.
Crow
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KANACKI
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Hola amigo
Calatrava la Vieja’s hidden coins. Secret treasures of the past, co-authored by the archeologist Manuel Retuerce Velasco of the department of Pre-History, Archeology and Ancient History at Madrid’s Complutense University, and by Miguel Hervás Herrera of the specialized consultancy Baraka, details the discovery over the past few decades of four stashes of coins at a site in modern-day Carrión de Calatrava, in Spain’s Ciudad Real province, which were presumably hidden by their owners against the imminent threat of conflict.
Two of them pertain to the age of the Muslim emirs in Spain in the ninth century. The fortified town of Calatrava la Vieja was for four centuries the most notable point between Toledo and Córdoba, and it sat on the frontier between Christian and Muslim territories. The other two troves date from the 13th century.
From 1960 when the first discovery was made by chance, until 2010 when the latest hoard of coins was uncovered, archeologists have been gaining greater knowledge of day-to-day life in the ancient walled city of Calatrava la Vieja, which was estimated to have a population of around 4,000 people up to the end of the 13th century. From there it started to fall into progressive decline as its strategic and military importance ebbed when the front line of the war between Christians and Muslims in Spain was pushed further south during the final stages of the Reconquest.
In 1960, 24 years before archeological digs began in Carrión de Calatrava, a farmer stumbled upon a stash of over 100 coins dating back to the ninth century in what would have been the eastern edge of the city. However, researchers have little information about the discovery because almost all of the coins were sold by their finder. There is also scant information about the container they were kept in, which is the key for researchers to determine why troves were hidden. Only five of the coins were donated to the National Archeological Museum in Madrid.
But not all of the discoveries in the area were accidental. In 2004, while archeologists were working beyond the walls of the ancient town, north of its imposing alcázar fortress, they found 71 coins dating from the reign of Alfonso VIII in what they believe was the floor of a suburban dwelling. Because of its characteristics – with fragments of cloth used to cover them and the low value of the coins – the experts think the stash could have been hidden in a beam in the roof that fell to the floor when the house collapsed. The find is dated to between 1212 and 1217 and the monetary value of the coins represents approximately a month’s wages at the time.
The last find, uncovered in 2010 just eight meters from the previous one, is very similar. The only difference is that the archeologists are absolutely certain as to how this trove of 29 coins was hidden. They were minted between the end of the 12th century and 1264, the later ones during the reign of Alfonso X of Castile as a result of his war against the Emirate of Granada.
This hoard was found wrapped in cloth on what would have been the floor of a 13th-century dwelling. “It was hidden between the timbers of one of the beams in the roof of the room,” says Retuerce. “Perhaps these coins were hidden in that spot and remained there forever: as nobody ever recovered them, once the house was abandoned and later fell apart, when the walls and ceiling collapsed, they fell to the floor.”
“The four troves of Calatrava la Vieja are a clear example of how movable fortunes were hidden in secret places during times of crisis. So it appears indeed such treasure legends in regards to Moors burying money in time of conflict at Calatrava la Vieja turned out to be true indeed.
Kanacki
Crow
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Gidday amigos
Another treasure legend that was traditional sung as a Celtic Ballad lead to buried treasure.
2 Irish men heard a ballad being sung by a minstrel playing a harp near Ballyshannon in Ireland in 1680.
In the earth beside a loud cascade,
The son of Sora's king we laid,
And on each finger placed a ring
of gold mandate of the king.
Here is the harp music for ballad unfortunately without the words to the ballad. It was titled the Hawk of Ballyshannon.
They understood the waterfall to a place called Salmons leap at Ballyshannon. They discovered 2 gold plates one of which is now in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. The Ballyshannon sun plate as its called is dated from the 8th or 9th century.
You can see it below.
Crow
Another treasure legend that was traditional sung as a Celtic Ballad lead to buried treasure.
2 Irish men heard a ballad being sung by a minstrel playing a harp near Ballyshannon in Ireland in 1680.
In the earth beside a loud cascade,
The son of Sora's king we laid,
And on each finger placed a ring
of gold mandate of the king.
Here is the harp music for ballad unfortunately without the words to the ballad. It was titled the Hawk of Ballyshannon.
They understood the waterfall to a place called Salmons leap at Ballyshannon. They discovered 2 gold plates one of which is now in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. The Ballyshannon sun plate as its called is dated from the 8th or 9th century.
You can see it below.
Crow
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KANACKI
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Hola amigos
Turlough O,Carolan
Was born in 1670 in Newton, County Westmeath, where his father was a blacksmith. The family moved from Meath to Ballyfarnon, County Roscommon in 1684. In Roscommon, his father took a job with the MacDermott Roe family of Alderford House. Mrs. MacDermott Roe gave Turlough an education, and he showed talent in poetry. After being blinded by smallpox at the age of eighteen, Carolan was apprenticed by Mrs. MacDermott Roe to a good harper. At the age of twenty-one, being given a horse and a guide, he set out to travel Ireland and compose songs for patrons.
For almost fifty years, Carolan journeyed from one end of Ireland to the other, composing and performing his tunes. One of his earliest compositions was about Brigid Cruise, with whom he was infatuated. Brigid was the teenage daughter of the schoolmaster at the school for the blind attended by Carolan in Cruisetown, Ireland. In 1720, Carolan married Mary Maguire. He was then 50 years of age. Their first family home was a cottage on a parcel of land near the town of Manachain (now Mohill) in County Leitrim, where they settled. They had seven children, six daughters and one son. In 1733 Mary died.
Turlough O'Carolan died on 25 March 1738. He is buried in the MacDermott Roe family crypt in Kilronan Burial Ground near Ballyfarnon, County Roscommon.
It should be noted Carolan's activities during his career are only partially documented historically. This has led to a lack of accurate information about Carolan and his music, even among Irish musicians. Sometimes, alternate titles or incorrect titles have been applied to songs, creating confusion as to whether the song is Carolan's or someone else's. Also, some of those who have written about Carolan and his music have made up facts or repeated unfounded stories.
The 1680 ballad was much older that was later attributed to Turlough O,Carolan. Although it Turlough O,Carolan version we hear today. No doubt Turlough O,Carolan heard to Ballard in his youth.
Some academics suspect the author of the ballad was Rory Dall O'Cahan born 1580 and died 1653. Who was a Wandering minstrel from Derry who wandered around Ireland. However some say there is no evidence he existed other than being mentioned as the author in 1840?
However there is a line between the decedents of the Roe family and later Turlough O,Carolan.
Kanacki
Turlough O,Carolan
Was born in 1670 in Newton, County Westmeath, where his father was a blacksmith. The family moved from Meath to Ballyfarnon, County Roscommon in 1684. In Roscommon, his father took a job with the MacDermott Roe family of Alderford House. Mrs. MacDermott Roe gave Turlough an education, and he showed talent in poetry. After being blinded by smallpox at the age of eighteen, Carolan was apprenticed by Mrs. MacDermott Roe to a good harper. At the age of twenty-one, being given a horse and a guide, he set out to travel Ireland and compose songs for patrons.
For almost fifty years, Carolan journeyed from one end of Ireland to the other, composing and performing his tunes. One of his earliest compositions was about Brigid Cruise, with whom he was infatuated. Brigid was the teenage daughter of the schoolmaster at the school for the blind attended by Carolan in Cruisetown, Ireland. In 1720, Carolan married Mary Maguire. He was then 50 years of age. Their first family home was a cottage on a parcel of land near the town of Manachain (now Mohill) in County Leitrim, where they settled. They had seven children, six daughters and one son. In 1733 Mary died.
Turlough O'Carolan died on 25 March 1738. He is buried in the MacDermott Roe family crypt in Kilronan Burial Ground near Ballyfarnon, County Roscommon.
It should be noted Carolan's activities during his career are only partially documented historically. This has led to a lack of accurate information about Carolan and his music, even among Irish musicians. Sometimes, alternate titles or incorrect titles have been applied to songs, creating confusion as to whether the song is Carolan's or someone else's. Also, some of those who have written about Carolan and his music have made up facts or repeated unfounded stories.
The 1680 ballad was much older that was later attributed to Turlough O,Carolan. Although it Turlough O,Carolan version we hear today. No doubt Turlough O,Carolan heard to Ballard in his youth.
Some academics suspect the author of the ballad was Rory Dall O'Cahan born 1580 and died 1653. Who was a Wandering minstrel from Derry who wandered around Ireland. However some say there is no evidence he existed other than being mentioned as the author in 1840?
However there is a line between the decedents of the Roe family and later Turlough O,Carolan.
Kanacki
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Crow
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Gidday Kanacki
Most of Carolan's compositions were not published or even written down in his lifetime. They survived in the repertoires of fiddlers, pipers, and the last of the old Irish harper/singers. They were collected and published during the late 18th century and beyond, largely beginning with the work of Edward Bunting and his assistants in 1792,
Salmons leap on the river Erine does not exist anymore.
In the picture below none of buildings exist anymore as they was demolished and the river and small waterfall was flooded by the building of a dam and hydro electrical power station in the early 1950's.
The waterfall was once called Assaroe Falls (Irish: Eas Aoidh Ruadh, English: the waterfall of Red Hugh), also known as Cathaleen?s Falls, was a waterfall on the River Erne near Ballyshannon.
The tune tells of death of the king who drowned at the falls.
Aed Ruad, son of Badarn, Dithorba, son of Deman, and Cimbaeth, son of Fintan, three grandsons of Airgetmar, were, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, High Kings of Ireland who ruled in rotation, seven years at a time. They each ruled for three seven-year stints. ?ed died at the end of his third stint, by drowning in a waterfall which was named Eas Ruaid, "the red's waterfall"
This small decorated gold-foil disc was found in 1669 at Ballyshannon, Ireland, by men looking for a place described in an old Irish song where 'a man of a gigantick stature' was buried with gold ornaments. The discovery is recorded in the 1695 edition of Camden's Britannia (first published in 1586), the first major regional account of the history and antiquities of Britain and Ireland.
The 1680 version of the story was not the date of the discovery was actually 1669. It was first obtained by The Revd Dr Charles Hopkins in 1680, who later gave it to the Ashmolean Museum 1696.
The Ashmolean came into existence in 1682, when the wealthy antiquary Elias Ashmole gifted his collection to the University. It opened as Britain's first public museum, and the world's first university museum, in 1683.
Crow
Most of Carolan's compositions were not published or even written down in his lifetime. They survived in the repertoires of fiddlers, pipers, and the last of the old Irish harper/singers. They were collected and published during the late 18th century and beyond, largely beginning with the work of Edward Bunting and his assistants in 1792,
Salmons leap on the river Erine does not exist anymore.
In the picture below none of buildings exist anymore as they was demolished and the river and small waterfall was flooded by the building of a dam and hydro electrical power station in the early 1950's.
The waterfall was once called Assaroe Falls (Irish: Eas Aoidh Ruadh, English: the waterfall of Red Hugh), also known as Cathaleen?s Falls, was a waterfall on the River Erne near Ballyshannon.
The tune tells of death of the king who drowned at the falls.
Aed Ruad, son of Badarn, Dithorba, son of Deman, and Cimbaeth, son of Fintan, three grandsons of Airgetmar, were, according to medieval Irish legend and historical tradition, High Kings of Ireland who ruled in rotation, seven years at a time. They each ruled for three seven-year stints. ?ed died at the end of his third stint, by drowning in a waterfall which was named Eas Ruaid, "the red's waterfall"
This small decorated gold-foil disc was found in 1669 at Ballyshannon, Ireland, by men looking for a place described in an old Irish song where 'a man of a gigantick stature' was buried with gold ornaments. The discovery is recorded in the 1695 edition of Camden's Britannia (first published in 1586), the first major regional account of the history and antiquities of Britain and Ireland.
The 1680 version of the story was not the date of the discovery was actually 1669. It was first obtained by The Revd Dr Charles Hopkins in 1680, who later gave it to the Ashmolean Museum 1696.
The Ashmolean came into existence in 1682, when the wealthy antiquary Elias Ashmole gifted his collection to the University. It opened as Britain's first public museum, and the world's first university museum, in 1683.
Crow
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Another interesting fact. The legendary site of this discovery of the gold plates in 1669, Which was near the falls
was a lost forgotten medieval chapel and grave yard.
During test excavations in 2001 for the proposed N15 Bundoran-Ballyshannon bypass, an exciting archaeological discovery was made. Human skeletal remains were unearthed in a green field on the outskirts of Ballyshannon, in the townland of Ballyhanna. Subsequent excavation on the site revealed the foundations of a medieval church and associated cemetery on the south bank of the river Erne. The site is thought to date from between 1100-1400 AD. Local history always relies on folk memory to fill in the gaps when written records are sketchy or non-existent; however, no such folk or local tradition has been handed down in the area concerning a burial site or church at Ballyhanna.
The first local clue to the presence of a church in Ballyhanna is contained in Hugh Allingham's (half-brother to the poet, William) history of Ballyshannon 1879; he discovered a 1609 inquisition which recorded ". ……"They also saie that in the said parish of Inishmacsaint is a chapple of ease, called Ffennoare (Finner) in Macginey, unto which said chapple the vicar of the said parish is to send a curate to saie divine service; and that that in the said parish also is another chapple called Ballihanny".
In the 1950s renowned local historian, Fr Paddy Gallagher, tried to locate the chapel at Ballyhanna. In keeping with a good mystery story, part of the townland was submerged when the Erne hydro-electricity scheme was being developed; however, from his research Fr Paddy was cinfident that there was no visible trace of a church at Ballyhanna even before the flooding. During the archaeological dig, the foundations of a building were uncovered, around which some graves were gathered, and this has given rise to speculation, that the long lost chapel has been found. The evidence pointed to a graveyard for a settled community who used it over the generations. Remains were in graves dug length ways from west to east, with the feet pointing east.
This was clear evidence that these were Christain burials, as the bodies were facing the rising sun in line with Christian resurrection beliefs. Further excavations revealed two mass graves, but it is important to note that the major portion of the site showed the graves in an organized fashion as would be the practice in a normal cemetery.
Over 1,000 remains were unearthed, but it was the discovery on a skeleton of two coins, which led to a verifiable date. These "long-cross" pennies date from the reign of Henry 111 (1251-1254) and Edward 1 (1276-1302). Also, the discovery of small pieces of quartz crystal beside some remains led to the conclusion that this was part of a religious custom. No doubt the work of the archaeological team and local historians will lead to further revelations about Ballyhanna in generations to come.
The irony of the 1669 discovery was that the original Sun Disk plate in Ashmolean museum was re-dated by more modern methods and is much older than the sun plate was first believed 7- 8th centuries but Object dating: Early Bronze Age, Beaker Period (Britain) (c. 2500 - c. 2150 cal. BC) ; Early Bronze Age (Britain) (c. 2500 - 1500 cal.BC) However the image of the cross contradicts those claims?
Even though regardless in 1669 the two men found treasure inspired by an ancient Ballad sang by harpers about Death of Aed Ruad, son of Badarn, Dithorba, son of Deman, and Cimbaeth, son of Fintan, three grandsons of Airgetmar,
The Lebor Gabila synchronises Cimbieth's reign to that of Alexander the Great (336–323 BC). The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar Eirinn dates their combined reigns to 530–469 BC, the Annals of the Four Masters to 731–661 BC. So its hard to know an exact date?
The chief compiler of the annals was Brother Micheal O Cleirigh from Ballyshannon, who was assisted by, among others, Cu Choigcriche O Cleirigh, Fearfeasa O Maol Chonaire and O Choigriche O Duibhgeannain. Although only one of the authors, Micheal O Cleirigh, was a Franciscan friar, they became known as "the Four Friars" or in the original Irish, na Ceithre Maistri.
The Anglicized version of this was "the Four Masters", the name that has become associated with the annals themselves.
The annals are written in Irish. The several manuscript copies are held at Trinity College Dublin, the Royal Irish Academy, University College Dublin, and the National Library of Ireland.
So with this discovery of ancient cemetery and church perhaps found near the grave of an ancient king who drowned at the waterfall and buried near the sound of the falls. Perhaps Aed Ruad and his treasure is still awaiting discovery?
Crow
was a lost forgotten medieval chapel and grave yard.
During test excavations in 2001 for the proposed N15 Bundoran-Ballyshannon bypass, an exciting archaeological discovery was made. Human skeletal remains were unearthed in a green field on the outskirts of Ballyshannon, in the townland of Ballyhanna. Subsequent excavation on the site revealed the foundations of a medieval church and associated cemetery on the south bank of the river Erne. The site is thought to date from between 1100-1400 AD. Local history always relies on folk memory to fill in the gaps when written records are sketchy or non-existent; however, no such folk or local tradition has been handed down in the area concerning a burial site or church at Ballyhanna.
The first local clue to the presence of a church in Ballyhanna is contained in Hugh Allingham's (half-brother to the poet, William) history of Ballyshannon 1879; he discovered a 1609 inquisition which recorded ". ……"They also saie that in the said parish of Inishmacsaint is a chapple of ease, called Ffennoare (Finner) in Macginey, unto which said chapple the vicar of the said parish is to send a curate to saie divine service; and that that in the said parish also is another chapple called Ballihanny".
In the 1950s renowned local historian, Fr Paddy Gallagher, tried to locate the chapel at Ballyhanna. In keeping with a good mystery story, part of the townland was submerged when the Erne hydro-electricity scheme was being developed; however, from his research Fr Paddy was cinfident that there was no visible trace of a church at Ballyhanna even before the flooding. During the archaeological dig, the foundations of a building were uncovered, around which some graves were gathered, and this has given rise to speculation, that the long lost chapel has been found. The evidence pointed to a graveyard for a settled community who used it over the generations. Remains were in graves dug length ways from west to east, with the feet pointing east.
This was clear evidence that these were Christain burials, as the bodies were facing the rising sun in line with Christian resurrection beliefs. Further excavations revealed two mass graves, but it is important to note that the major portion of the site showed the graves in an organized fashion as would be the practice in a normal cemetery.
Over 1,000 remains were unearthed, but it was the discovery on a skeleton of two coins, which led to a verifiable date. These "long-cross" pennies date from the reign of Henry 111 (1251-1254) and Edward 1 (1276-1302). Also, the discovery of small pieces of quartz crystal beside some remains led to the conclusion that this was part of a religious custom. No doubt the work of the archaeological team and local historians will lead to further revelations about Ballyhanna in generations to come.
The irony of the 1669 discovery was that the original Sun Disk plate in Ashmolean museum was re-dated by more modern methods and is much older than the sun plate was first believed 7- 8th centuries but Object dating: Early Bronze Age, Beaker Period (Britain) (c. 2500 - c. 2150 cal. BC) ; Early Bronze Age (Britain) (c. 2500 - 1500 cal.BC) However the image of the cross contradicts those claims?
Even though regardless in 1669 the two men found treasure inspired by an ancient Ballad sang by harpers about Death of Aed Ruad, son of Badarn, Dithorba, son of Deman, and Cimbaeth, son of Fintan, three grandsons of Airgetmar,
The Lebor Gabila synchronises Cimbieth's reign to that of Alexander the Great (336–323 BC). The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar Eirinn dates their combined reigns to 530–469 BC, the Annals of the Four Masters to 731–661 BC. So its hard to know an exact date?
The chief compiler of the annals was Brother Micheal O Cleirigh from Ballyshannon, who was assisted by, among others, Cu Choigcriche O Cleirigh, Fearfeasa O Maol Chonaire and O Choigriche O Duibhgeannain. Although only one of the authors, Micheal O Cleirigh, was a Franciscan friar, they became known as "the Four Friars" or in the original Irish, na Ceithre Maistri.
The Anglicized version of this was "the Four Masters", the name that has become associated with the annals themselves.
The annals are written in Irish. The several manuscript copies are held at Trinity College Dublin, the Royal Irish Academy, University College Dublin, and the National Library of Ireland.
So with this discovery of ancient cemetery and church perhaps found near the grave of an ancient king who drowned at the waterfall and buried near the sound of the falls. Perhaps Aed Ruad and his treasure is still awaiting discovery?
Crow
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KANACKI
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Hola Crow
In regards to dating the Ballyshannon sun disk found in 1669 in Ashmolean Museum?
Prized for its lack of corrosion, gold may seem like a bad candidate for electrochemical dating, but in fact Dom?nech-Carb? and Scholz have found it can also be dated this way. ‘It turned out that the surface of gold is also changing at a very slow pace. It’s not really an oxide layer which grows there, it’s more an accumulation of defects.’ explains Scholz. What is actually happening is not well characterised, but they think it is the result of adsorption of oxygen species and an exchange process where oxygen atoms penetrate into deeper layers. VIMP studies, using a hydrochloric acid electrolyte, have shown the oxidation of gold to gold(iii) chloride complexes as well as a small peak attributed to the oxidation of the electroactive gold sites, and the ratio of these signals is age-dependent.
The team used a series of well‐documented gold specimens from museums for calibration, covering the last 2600 years. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they found that of all metals, the corrosion clock for gold proceeded at the most constant pace, being practically independent of the environment in which the object had been found or stored.
So perhaps from that they have come up with a much earlier date?
But it still does not answer the question about the Cross on it?
We could speculate perhaps the Gold plate was found and repurposed with a cross added by etching at later date, Perhaps for an earlier Irish christian church?
Or Cross like imagery was in use long before Christianity came into being and adopted the symbol?
Kanacki
In regards to dating the Ballyshannon sun disk found in 1669 in Ashmolean Museum?
Prized for its lack of corrosion, gold may seem like a bad candidate for electrochemical dating, but in fact Dom?nech-Carb? and Scholz have found it can also be dated this way. ‘It turned out that the surface of gold is also changing at a very slow pace. It’s not really an oxide layer which grows there, it’s more an accumulation of defects.’ explains Scholz. What is actually happening is not well characterised, but they think it is the result of adsorption of oxygen species and an exchange process where oxygen atoms penetrate into deeper layers. VIMP studies, using a hydrochloric acid electrolyte, have shown the oxidation of gold to gold(iii) chloride complexes as well as a small peak attributed to the oxidation of the electroactive gold sites, and the ratio of these signals is age-dependent.
The team used a series of well‐documented gold specimens from museums for calibration, covering the last 2600 years. Perhaps unsurprisingly, they found that of all metals, the corrosion clock for gold proceeded at the most constant pace, being practically independent of the environment in which the object had been found or stored.
So perhaps from that they have come up with a much earlier date?
But it still does not answer the question about the Cross on it?
We could speculate perhaps the Gold plate was found and repurposed with a cross added by etching at later date, Perhaps for an earlier Irish christian church?
Or Cross like imagery was in use long before Christianity came into being and adopted the symbol?
Kanacki
Crow
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Gidday amigo
Its my pleasure. One other thing with in site and earshot of the old waterfall that once existed is the sheil hospital during extensions construction crews found an old cap stone covering an ancient grave.
However digging under it showed no signs of a burial. However there was other signs of cairn like material. Its appears the site was disturbed some time in the past.
Near by was a clay pot. All indications point to an ancient cremation most likely pagan dating back to the bronze age. Was this the site where the Ballyshannon sun disks was found in 1669?.
We can only speculate of course.
Crow
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KANACKI
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Hola Amigos
Here is more photographs of excavation site. You can see in the context where the Bronze age clay funeral urn was found in a pit grave in relation to where the grave cap stones is below.
You can the careful excavation of urn below.
Finally removal of the urn. Carefully packaged for removal.
Love to see it when it goes on display.
An interesting question springs to mind. Was the gold sun disk actually of boss on a leather shield? And over time the leather has rotten away leaving only the disks there to be discovered in 1669. If the grave was a pagan chieftain that drowned by the falls that was later told about in verbal history in Celtic ballads sung by wandering minstrels. It might of been possible that he was buried with his leather shield after he was cremated and placed in a pit tomb sealed with a capstone?
Hence the distance of the capstone from the pit tomb with urn suggests at least some time in the past the grave was looted? Was it by the two Irish men in 1669?
Kanacki
Here is more photographs of excavation site. You can see in the context where the Bronze age clay funeral urn was found in a pit grave in relation to where the grave cap stones is below.
You can the careful excavation of urn below.
Finally removal of the urn. Carefully packaged for removal.
Love to see it when it goes on display.
An interesting question springs to mind. Was the gold sun disk actually of boss on a leather shield? And over time the leather has rotten away leaving only the disks there to be discovered in 1669. If the grave was a pagan chieftain that drowned by the falls that was later told about in verbal history in Celtic ballads sung by wandering minstrels. It might of been possible that he was buried with his leather shield after he was cremated and placed in a pit tomb sealed with a capstone?
Hence the distance of the capstone from the pit tomb with urn suggests at least some time in the past the grave was looted? Was it by the two Irish men in 1669?
Kanacki
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Crow
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Gidday all
People tend to forget one of biggest archeological discoveries of all time was in effect was found by an person who as not a trained institutional academic archeologist but actually a draft person. Although he was passionate about his quest and operated very closely along the same principles and methods as archeology and perhaps cutting edge in his day. Today he would of had buckley's none chance of ever getting permission today for his quest. And that person was none other than Howard Carter who I must confess was bit of hero of mine in awe for determination and drive to succeed below.
Howard Carter (9 May 1874 – 2 March 1939) was an English archaeologist and Egyptologist. He became world-famous after discovering the intact tomb of the 18th Dynasty Pharaoh, Tutankhamun in November 1922, the best-preserved pharaonic tomb ever found in the Valley of the Kings. In doing so discovered one of the greatest treasures in history.
Carter spent much of his childhood with relatives in the Norfolk market town of Swaffham, the birthplace of both his parents.Receiving only limited formal education at Swaffham, he showed talent as an artist. The nearby mansion of the Amherst family, Didlington Hall, contained a sizable collection of Egyptian antiques, which sparked Carter's interest in that subject.
Lady Amherst was impressed by his artistic skills, and in 1891 she prompted the Egypt Exploration Fund (EEF) to send Carter to assist an Amherst family friend, Percy Newberry, in the excavation and recording of Middle Kingdom tombs at Beni Hasan.
Although only 17, Carter was innovative in improving the methods of copying tomb decoration. In 1892, he worked under the tutelage of Flinders Petrie for one season at Amarna, the capital founded by the pharaoh Akhenaten. From 1894 to 1899, he worked with ?douard Naville at Deir el-Bahari, where he recorded the wall reliefs in the temple of Hatshepsu. Here is a picture of Flinders Petrie below
Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, FRS, FBA (3 June 1853 – 28 July 1942), commonly known as Flinders Petrie, was an English Egyptologist and a pioneer of systematic methodology in archaeology and preservation of artefacts. He held the first chair of Egyptology in the United Kingdom, and excavated many of the most important archaeological sites in Egypt in conjunction with his wife, Hilda Petrie. He perhaps got his greatest lessons from the methods Flinders Petrie employed in a time when archeology was still in its infancy.
In 1899, Carter was appointed Inspector of Monuments for Upper Egypt in the Egyptian Antiquities Service (EAS).Based at Luxor, he oversaw a number of excavations and restorations at nearby Thebes, while in the Valley of the Kings he supervised the systematic exploration of the valley by the American archaeologist Theodore Davis. You can see a picture of Theodore M Davis below.
In 1904, after a dispute with local people over tomb thefts, he was transferred to the Inspectorate of Lower Egypt.Carter was praised for his improvements in the protection of, and accessibility to, existing excavation sites, and his development of a grid-block system for searching for tombs. The Antiquities Service also provided funding for Carter to head his own excavation projects.
Carter resigned from the Antiquities Service in 1905 after a formal inquiry into what became known as the Saqqara Affair, a violent confrontation between Egyptian site guards and a group of French tourists. Carter sided with the Egyptian personnel, refusing to apologise when the French authorities made an official complaint. Moving back to Luxor, Carter was without formal employment for nearly three years. He made a living by painting and selling watercolours to tourists and, in 1906, acting as a freelance draughtsman for Theodore Davis.
So you can see from above that he was by no means the archeologist by today's standard or academically trained other than be passionate about the subject and a little fieldwork.
Yet his passion and drive impressed many. One such person was George Edward Stanhope Molyneux Herbert, 5th Earl of Carnarvon, DL (26 June 1866 – 5 April 1923), styled Lord Porchester until 1890, was an English peer and aristocrat best later known as the financial backer of the search for and excavation of Tutankhamun's tomb in the Valley of the Kings.
To be continued.....
Crow
People tend to forget one of biggest archeological discoveries of all time was in effect was found by an person who as not a trained institutional academic archeologist but actually a draft person. Although he was passionate about his quest and operated very closely along the same principles and methods as archeology and perhaps cutting edge in his day. Today he would of had buckley's none chance of ever getting permission today for his quest. And that person was none other than Howard Carter who I must confess was bit of hero of mine in awe for determination and drive to succeed below.
Howard Carter (9 May 1874 – 2 March 1939) was an English archaeologist and Egyptologist. He became world-famous after discovering the intact tomb of the 18th Dynasty Pharaoh, Tutankhamun in November 1922, the best-preserved pharaonic tomb ever found in the Valley of the Kings. In doing so discovered one of the greatest treasures in history.
Carter spent much of his childhood with relatives in the Norfolk market town of Swaffham, the birthplace of both his parents.Receiving only limited formal education at Swaffham, he showed talent as an artist. The nearby mansion of the Amherst family, Didlington Hall, contained a sizable collection of Egyptian antiques, which sparked Carter's interest in that subject.
Lady Amherst was impressed by his artistic skills, and in 1891 she prompted the Egypt Exploration Fund (EEF) to send Carter to assist an Amherst family friend, Percy Newberry, in the excavation and recording of Middle Kingdom tombs at Beni Hasan.
Although only 17, Carter was innovative in improving the methods of copying tomb decoration. In 1892, he worked under the tutelage of Flinders Petrie for one season at Amarna, the capital founded by the pharaoh Akhenaten. From 1894 to 1899, he worked with ?douard Naville at Deir el-Bahari, where he recorded the wall reliefs in the temple of Hatshepsu. Here is a picture of Flinders Petrie below
Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie, FRS, FBA (3 June 1853 – 28 July 1942), commonly known as Flinders Petrie, was an English Egyptologist and a pioneer of systematic methodology in archaeology and preservation of artefacts. He held the first chair of Egyptology in the United Kingdom, and excavated many of the most important archaeological sites in Egypt in conjunction with his wife, Hilda Petrie. He perhaps got his greatest lessons from the methods Flinders Petrie employed in a time when archeology was still in its infancy.
In 1899, Carter was appointed Inspector of Monuments for Upper Egypt in the Egyptian Antiquities Service (EAS).Based at Luxor, he oversaw a number of excavations and restorations at nearby Thebes, while in the Valley of the Kings he supervised the systematic exploration of the valley by the American archaeologist Theodore Davis. You can see a picture of Theodore M Davis below.
In 1904, after a dispute with local people over tomb thefts, he was transferred to the Inspectorate of Lower Egypt.Carter was praised for his improvements in the protection of, and accessibility to, existing excavation sites, and his development of a grid-block system for searching for tombs. The Antiquities Service also provided funding for Carter to head his own excavation projects.
Carter resigned from the Antiquities Service in 1905 after a formal inquiry into what became known as the Saqqara Affair, a violent confrontation between Egyptian site guards and a group of French tourists. Carter sided with the Egyptian personnel, refusing to apologise when the French authorities made an official complaint. Moving back to Luxor, Carter was without formal employment for nearly three years. He made a living by painting and selling watercolours to tourists and, in 1906, acting as a freelance draughtsman for Theodore Davis.
So you can see from above that he was by no means the archeologist by today's standard or academically trained other than be passionate about the subject and a little fieldwork.
Yet his passion and drive impressed many. One such person was George Edward Stanhope Molyneux Herbert, 5th Earl of Carnarvon, DL (26 June 1866 – 5 April 1923), styled Lord Porchester until 1890, was an English peer and aristocrat best later known as the financial backer of the search for and excavation of Tutankhamun's tomb in the Valley of the Kings.
To be continued.....
Crow
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