What would you do?

[CreakyDigger]

Found items, tell no one. Sold items, pay the tax. I've sold at auction or to institutions several items worth over 50K, that I have very little invested in. I report the sale and pay the tax. Then, no worries, all profit anyway.

 

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[MiddenMonster]

I report the sale and pay the tax. Then, no worries, all profit anyway.

You forgot the asterisk:

*Depending on where you find them, what they are and what information you have to provide about the find.

If I found the Lost Aztec Gold in my backyard in Texas I don't see any way I could sell it or report the sale. It would be seized and people I've never heard of would fight over it until they came to a settlement that would make them rich and I would be left with nothing but a thank you. But it wouldn't be a total loss. I could still see me having to "pay the tax" for some reason...

 

[dowser]

My Dad had once told me, "you have to find it first"! My boss had bought truck to aid in our treasure hunting, so that made us partners. I asked him, if we found $100 million treasure, couldn't keep any legally, but if reported we got to keep 10%, what would you do? He said he would take the whole 100 mil, and go live on an island.

 

[MiddenMonster]

My Dad had once told me, "you have to find it first"! My boss had bought truck to aid in our treasure hunting, so that made us partners. I asked him, if we found $100 million treasure, couldn't keep any legally, but if reported we got to keep 10%, what would you do? He said he would take the whole 100 mil, and go live on an island.

That might have been well and good 30-40 years ago. But in this day and age it would be almost impossible. The first problem would be conversion. Setting aside the volume of a $100 million treasure (it could be as small as a few pieces of jewelry, or it could fill a shipping container), How would he convert it to the old cashish? Second problem would definitely be volume. $100 million in cash takes up quite a bit of room. A paltry million dollars in $100 bills is 10,000 bills. $100 million is a million $100 bills. Just for easy reference, 500 bills would be roughly as thick as a ream of printer paper. So we're talking about a stack as tall as 2,000 reams of printer paper. If 6 bills has roughly the same footprint as a sheet of paper, that's still a volume of more than 330 reams of paper. Third problem is exfiltration. How does he get it from a nice cushy home in the United States to said island without getting caught? Where does he keep it if he does manage to get it out? How does he keep it protected from moisture and salt? How does he stay off the revenuer's radar? Does everyone he see look like a potential murderer/robber to him? If so, how does he sleep?

I'd take the 10% and sleep like a baby in my nice, cushy new house of decent size on a few thousand acres of multi-topographical land with a decent water source. And I'd get a new TV.

 

[dowser]

That might have been well and good 30-40 years ago. But in this day and age it would be almost impossible. The first problem would be conversion. Setting aside the volume of a $100 million treasure (it could be as small as a few pieces of jewelry, or it could fill a shipping container), How would he convert it to the old cashish? Second problem would definitely be volume. $100 million in cash takes up quite a bit of room. A paltry million dollars in $100 bills is 10,000 bills. $100 million is a million $100 bills. Just for easy reference, 500 bills would be roughly as thick as a ream of printer paper. So we're talking about a stack as tall as 2,000 reams of printer paper. If 6 bills has roughly the same footprint as a sheet of paper, that's still a volume of more than 330 reams of paper. Third problem is exfiltration. How does he get it from a nice cushy home in the United States to said island without getting caught? Where does he keep it if he does manage to get it out? How does he keep it protected from moisture and salt? How does he stay off the revenuer's radar? Does everyone he see look like a potential murderer/robber to him? If so, how does he sleep?

I'd take the 10% and sleep like a baby in my nice, cushy new house of decent size on a few thousand acres of multi-topographical land with a decent water source. And I'd get a new TV.

I didn't specifically mean paper money or cash, I meant cache, a 100 million value. He was a dishonest person, but it wasn't until I asked that I could see his greed. But he was a partner in our treasure hunting adventures and I'm glad I didn't find one. 10% would have been enough for me. Because if I had found a big cache, I would assume I can find more. I never wanted to tarnish my reputation.

 

[Hunter1805]

I would not say a thing until the world finds its common sense value of what is white is white and what is black is black and stop living in the age of stupidly.

 

[AKJolly]

I guess my question would be: If i found a cash or something and i wanted to be honest about it would you give it to them and hope for a reward or would you take a finders fee? Say 10 to 20% or so.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

If someone cant keep that a secret they probably shouldnt be a treasure hunter or even a stacker, prospector or anything like that haha.
Theres nothing honest about notifying the slave masters.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I didn't specifically mean paper money or cash, I meant cache, a 100 million value.

I understand, that's why I put conversion at the top of the list of problems. For any cache to have value, it has to be converted to something more fungible, i.e. cash. But if you did find $100 million in cash, it would present its own insurmountable obstacles. Read this thread where we discussed the difficulties in stashing the cash for long periods of time:

Anyone up for an intellectual exercise in cache burying?

If someone cant keep that a secret they probably shouldnt be a treasure hunter or even a stacker, prospector or anything like that haha.
Theres nothing honest about notifying the slave masters.

It would be relatively easy to keep the simple secret of the find. The hard part would be keeping the conversion and use of the find a secret. Even if you tried to live a simple life I think it would be tough to keep a $100 million footprint completely hidden. How could you infiltrate $100 million dollars into your life--even if it was over 50 years, without the people around you or the government knowing about it?

 

[dowser]

You'd have to launder it through lottery or casino. You'd spend a lot more, but have fun doing it..

 

[bc5391]

It would not be hard to sell a little at a time and enjoy your life. For those who have served, have you told someone everything?, Have you told anyone about your first kiss. Has Jimmy Hoffa been found. (I was in Germany at the time it was not me)

I don't know about you but I have many secrets I will take to my grave.

 

[MiddenMonster]

You'd have to launder it through lottery or casino. You'd spend a lot more, but have fun doing it..

No way you could launder it through a lottery. There is a paper trail every step of the way, and probably cameras, to boot. You could launder some of $100 million through a casino over your lifetime, but not all of it. Casinos watch every step of the people who come in, and they particularly make it their business to know all they can about regulars. I think the IRS also hangs out at casinos to make sure they get their rake. If it was that easy, drug cartels wouldn't try so hard to smuggle their illicit billions out of the U.S.

It would not be hard to sell a little at a time and enjoy your life. For those who have served, have you told someone everything?, Have you told anyone about your first kiss. Has Jimmy Hoffa been found. (I was in Germany at the time it was not me)

The difference is that no one is trying to capitalize off those secrets. As soon as you try to capitalize off a $100 million secret things are going to get real complicated. And in this day and age, computers make it almost impossible to get away with things like that. Let's say you were able to convert all $100 million to cash and had it stashed in your basement. With AI and machine learning, the IRS is going to know if you start spending significantly more than you make, and they will also know if you are spending significantly less the usual yearly amount of your legitimate income. So you are kind of in a box

 

[bc5391]

No way you could launder it through a lottery. There is a paper trail every step of the way, and probably cameras, to boot. You could launder some of $100 million through a casino over your lifetime, but not all of it. Casinos watch every step of the people who come in, and they particularly make it their business to know all they can about regulars. I think the IRS also hangs out at casinos to make sure they get their rake. If it was that easy, drug cartels wouldn't try so hard to smuggle their illicit billions out of the U.S.



The difference is that no one is trying to capitalize off those secrets. As soon as you try to capitalize off a $100 million secret things are going to get real complicated. And in this day and age, computers make it almost impossible to get away with things like that. Let's say you were able to convert all $100 million to cash and had it stashed in your basement. With AI and machine learning, the IRS is going to know if you start spending significantly more than you make, and they will also know if you are spending significantly less the usual yearly amount of your legitimate income. So you are kind of in a box

Maybe the point has been missed, as "What would you do". At 68, I have no dreams of owning a yacht , or a $500k motor home. I get by well, do quite a bit of buying and selling from craigslist/ebay etc. Enough to have build my shop, bought 4x4's, quads,side by sides etc. many people below the eyes of the IRS and have done so for years, the key is a low profile. If my intent was to live like a king, I would move all my money to a Swiss bank account and buy a farm in Portugal, get 2- 25year old ladies and live it up

 

[MiddenMonster]

Maybe the point has been missed, as "What would you do". At 68, I have no dreams of owning a yacht , or a $500k motor home. I get by well, do quite a bit of buying and selling from craigslist/ebay etc. Enough to have build my shop, bought 4x4's, quads,side by sides etc. many people below the eyes of the IRS and have done so for years, the key is a low profile. If my intent was to live like a king, I would move all my money to a Swiss bank account and buy a farm in Portugal, get 2- 25year old ladies and live it up

I agree. But in the most recent iteration of this situation by @dowser, the question was, "...found $100 million treasure, couldn't keep any legally, but if reported we got to keep 10%, what would you do?" Since I would be happy with $10 million, I'd take the easy route and be done with it. I wouldn't risk losing it all and ending up in jail by trying to launder in $100 million in this day and age. It's like the big lotteries these days; would you want 100% of the winnings paid out over 20 years, or the roughly 40% you get if you take the lump sum payment?

 

[Chingon559]

My friends and I debate... what would you do if you found a hoard of gold bars and artifacts? Would you legally file a claim for the treasure or would you keep it a sercret? Why?

10 years ago my neighbor in Mexico plowing his land found 4 gold bars. Kept it a secret. Decided to go to Leon Guanajuato to sell his gold. 2 bars only. Went into a bank where no one knew him. Stepped to the teller and asked if they would buy gold. The bank teller called her manager. The manager pulled him over to the side. Asked him to show him his gold. Showed his 2 bars and manager called his boss who took him to a private room in back. Told him any gold found in Mecico land belonged to the country. Told him the bank represents the country, therefore the gold belonged to the bank and he was the bank. Now it was the supervisors gold. My neighbor got mad and supervisor got violent grabbed the phone and called in a gorilla that beat him to death and stuck him in a trashcan. He did not die and was rescued and healed by a old lady. One month later he somehow got back to Michacan. His wife says they don't want anything to do with gold. I have no idea what they did to the other 2 bars.

 

[MiddenMonster]

10 years ago my neighbor in Mexico plowing his land found 4 gold bars. Kept it a secret. Decided to go to Leon Guanajuato to sell his gold. 2 bars only. Went into a bank where no one knew him.

Good grief! Zipping the gold bars to the bank was a bonehead move from the get-go. And taking two bars instead of one compounded the bonehead move. And taking it to a bank where nobody knew him put a cherry on top of it! If he went to a bank where nobody knew him, he was obviously aware that he was doing something that could be considered shifty. First move should have been to hunker down, shut the hell up and come up with a good plan to convert the gold to cash. The Internet did exist 10 years ago. If I found gold like that it could easily take a year before I tried to convert it, maybe longer. Also, how big were these gold bars? When I picture gold bars in my mind I'm thinking of bars that weigh at least 50lbs. But sadly, this guy did what most people would have probably done. And he got the same results that most people would have probably gotten.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Good grief! Zipping the gold bars to the bank was a bonehead move from the get-go. And taking two bars instead of one compounded the bonehead move. And taking it to a bank where nobody knew him put a cherry on top of it! If he went to a bank where nobody knew him, he was obviously aware that he was doing something that could be considered shifty. First move should have been to hunker down, shut the hell up and come up with a good plan to convert the gold to cash. The Internet did exist 10 years ago. If I found gold like that it could easily take a year before I tried to convert it, maybe longer. Also, how big were these gold bars? When I picture gold bars in my mind I'm thinking of bars that weigh at least 50lbs. But sadly, this guy did what most people would have probably done. And he got the same results that most people would have probably gotten.

Should have been reading Tnet.Lots of good advice on here as to how to handle a valuable find. Read it,believe it,heed it. Admit nothing,deny everything,make counter accusations. Shut up.

 

[ADHD_Outdoors]

The one common theme I'm reading is no one trusts the government.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on it. Shhhhhhh.

 

[camichael]

I am not a tax expert and following is not advice just discussion ease see a tax expert to verify this.
Two things here…if you keep it and do not declare it on your income taxes…then you may be coming out less than if you paid the taxes! Before you all start yelling at me let me explain..
Let’s say you find an old stash that no one has a real claim on and for augment let’s say it’s worth $100,000. You decide not to declare it as income for the IRS..now you want to sell the coins..When you go to do it the guy buying them is not likely to pay you anything close to what they are worth because he has to make a profit and HE has to pay taxes on the profit. So you will more than likely get 50 percent of what they are worth. So let’s say $50,000. And you will have to hope he doesn’t turn you in or blackmail you later, you are always going to be looking over your shoulder.
If you do declare them (The IRS says treasure Trove Items are taxable and taxes r due in the year you take undisputed possession of the item.)And since you only make $50,000 a year your tax bracket is maybe 25 %, so if you sell them legit and get a really good price of $100,000(not sure of the tax rate/category you fall into then) –maybe even 40 percent) you will still net more than the $50,000 and not be looking over your shoulder., plus be able to deduct all you spent treasure hunting all year (in the new tax deductable truck?)
If I am wrong please tell me where.
I know it stinks having to give art of what you find to the gobernment for them to waste

Ahhh you really think they will let you deduct your HOBBY expenses? Guess again....

 

[airborne1092]

My friends and I debate... what would you do if you found a hoard of gold bars and artifacts? Would you legally file a claim for the treasure or would you keep it a sercret? Why?

I would take the experience and the finds to my deathbed.