What would you do?

[boogeyman]

I am not a tax expert and following is not advice just discussion ease see a tax expert to verify this.
Two things here…if you keep it and do not declare it on your income taxes…then you may be coming out less than if you paid the taxes! Before you all start yelling at me let me explain..
Let’s say you find an old stash that no one has a real claim on and for augment let’s say it’s worth $100,000. You decide not to declare it as income for the IRS..now you want to sell the coins..When you go to do it the guy buying them is not likely to pay you anything close to what they are worth because he has to make a profit and HE has to pay taxes on the profit. So you will more than likely get 50 percent of what they are worth. So let’s say $50,000. And you will have to hope he doesn’t turn you in or blackmail you later, you are always going to be looking over your shoulder.
If you do declare them (The IRS says treasure Trove Items are taxable and taxes r due in the year you take undisputed possession of the item.)And since you only make $50,000 a year your tax bracket is maybe 25 %, so if you sell them legit and get a really good price of $100,000(not sure of the tax rate/category you fall into then) –maybe even 40 percent) you will still net more than the $50,000 and not be looking over your shoulder., plus be able to deduct all you spent treasure hunting all year (in the new tax deductable truck?)
If I am wrong please tell me where.
I know it stinks having to give art of what you find to the gobernment for them to waste

The first thing I see wrong with this theory is, if you're selling boullion or coin for 50% of its value, you need to find another buyer period. I'm assuming you're talking about dumping the whole cache all at once which wouldn't be too smart. Personally I'd be more inclined to put it away for a rainy day & move a little at a time when needed. If you keep up on the stories of "criminals" being busted, it's due to their own stupidity. If you make a diddly squat income & all of a sudden you're trading your pinto in on a Ferrari you're gonna get a visit. The first thing you need to do is use the brain god gave you. The second thing is NEVER get greedy. How mant times have you heard of a brilliant plan going to pot because of greed?

 

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[Zephyr]

You aren't supposed to cash it in. You must keep the tradition going and hide it again....

 

[dogpound]

1. tell no one
2. if its coins, gold or silver.....dump it in small amounts (under 10K) to several dealers over a course of time
3. see step 1

 

[jimmatt_43]

Shovel,sift,and shut your pie hole

 

[St. Jerome]

hehe. I would try to lift it. I would sit there and stare at it and laugh at all the fools that thought they was clever. I would say go dig up the spanish cemetary some more. You'll find it. I would hit it and no one would ever know. Yeah, if I found that old cave....without a trace. Just tracers.

 

[dustytrails123]

ofcourse i found that big stash in my back yard ...can you prove i didnt lol ;-)

 

[MickeyMaguire]

When the USA did away with the Gold Standard, they put a clause in the law that stated in the event of a "national emergency", they had the right to confiscate "commodity" gold (to prop up the US dollar). Commodity gold would be US minted coinage from 1912 to the present, ingots, bars, etc... Now, proposed legislation would change that to include gold coins minted prior to 1912 and even jewelry (wedding rings, earrings, etc...), in the event of a "national emergency", of course the emergency is subject to interpretation.

If you don't know, we had an agreement with the oil-producing states in the Middle East that they would sell oil for US Dollars only and we would provide them with security from foreign invasion, etc... That is why we pushed Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in the Gulf War (1991). Now, several oil-producing nations say that they want Euros for oil, not USD. So, the day may soon come when the government starts gathering all of that commodity gold.

 

[Dr. Syn]

True, but didn't the govt try that little bit before?
Amazing how much gold didn't quite make it back to the Treasury Dept, as "required" by law.

Just saying.

 

[MickeyMaguire]

True, but didn't the govt try that little bit before?
Amazing how much gold didn't quite make it back to the Treasury Dept, as "required" by law.

Just saying.

Interesting, isn't it.

 

[1RAGINCAJUN]

I agree with Twisted i think wht hw said is about right.

 

[Rawhide]

You aren't supposed to cash it in. You must keep the tradition going and hide it again....

You on the right track, this dog knows how to hunt.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Admit nothing,deny everything,make counteraccusations!!!!!!

 

[MiddenMonster]

My friends and I debate... what would you do if you found a hoard of gold bars and artifacts? Would you legally file a claim for the treasure or would you keep it a sercret? Why?

That is the age old question every treasure hunter ponders at one time or another. But as asked above, the answer is more complicated than it might initially seem. I think in this day and age the science is there to ascertain the general time period--and maybe location where the gold bars were poured, based on their chemical signature. If the gold bars could be linked to say, the Inca, good luck trying to claim the treasure. If the purity is 99.999%, the federal government is likely to claim the bars as lost/stolen government property. If you wanted to claim them you would have to dirty them up by remelting them and adding some impurities. Artifacts are equally complicated. If they are found to be grave goods you will be forced to give them up. If another country has even a sliver of a chance of claiming that they have the rights to them you will have a big legal fight on your hands, with few allies who will come to your aid.

If you choose to keep it a secret, that either means they forever remain part of your own private collection or you are going to try to convert them to functional wealth on the black market. Doing so lowers the price you will get, and increases the chance of criminal liability you risk. So you have to strike a balance between risk and reward. As for myself, I am generally honest and have no problem with paying my fair share of taxes. But if I believe the government is going to shaft me through the whole process, try to claim or take what I found and then tax me on whatever I end up with I'd be inclined to handle things in other ways. But being generally honest, I would also try to ascertain any legitimate owner of what I found and return it to them. If I had the patience for metal detecting I'd be one of those saps on the beach who spends months trying to return a class ring or bracelet to the person who lost it, or at least their descendants. If the gold bars were stamped "Property of the U.S. Army" I'd have no problem returning it to them. But if the gold bars were stamped "Property of the U.S. Treasury" I'd have some serious thinking to do...

 

[missouriexp]

ofcourse i found that big stash in my back yard ...can you prove i didnt lol ;-)

Ha, I like this. Let's say you do find some old artifact or gold bars on your land. If you "own" the property where it was found in the US (I know other countries are different), is it possible the government or some other country could steal it away. I imagine you would still get lawsuits from people claiming that you took it from their land or something like that. I mean look at the lawsuits the Forest Fenn thing generated.

 

[creskol]

Shhhhhhhhh !!!!!

 

[MiddenMonster]

Ha, I like this. Let's say you do find some old artifact or gold bars on your land. If you "own" the property where it was found in the US (I know other countries are different), is it possible the government or some other country could steal it away. I imagine you would still get lawsuits from people claiming that you took it from their land or something like that. I mean look at the lawsuits the Forest Fenn thing generated.

Possible? Try probable. Just as the jungle of laws we have make it almost impossible for anyone to live 100% within the law, those same laws make it easy for the government to cajole, coerce or legalese you into giving up whatever you find, wherever you find it. At the very least you are likely to spend all or most of the value of what you find on legal representation to fight the government. The government will bury you in paper by filing a zillion motions in court. If you don't respond to them the judge is likely to side with the government. If you hire a lawyer you will pay him/her by the hour to file responses, that you still might not win. So if the government can't outright take what you found--even if it was on your own property, they threaten you with financial death by a thousand cuts unless you agree to skin it back to them. They just want to wet their beaks, you see. So your lawyer tells you what is what, and how the game is played and you settle for what comes out of a short, lopsided negotiation. Then you pay your lawyer out of what you get to keep. Oh, and don't forget to pay your taxes before you pay the lawyer. The penalties on late taxes is a lot higher than the penalties on paying your lawyer late.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Why do you want to know? And your first post at that. Who do you work for?

Don't you remember? I keep telling you all, pay your taxes or off to jail you may go. Karl always told us do not talk, if you do, you may lose the treasures.

 

[Honest Samuel]

When you found treasures, you are suppose to place something like a horse shoe or a large paint can to let other treasure hunters that the treasure is no longer there and they can stop looking for it. Let us assume that you find pirate treasures in Connecticut worth ten millions dollars. As stated before, coin dealers on the most part will rip you off big time. I been in the business since 1964. You go into a store and state that you inhere the coin collection, they would ask you how much you want, you tell them that you do not know. Bad idea. They will give you very little. If it was me, I would have them taken from the site to Stack's & Bowers coin auction and they get the best prices. They will detect their cost and perhaps state and federal income taxes. Stop complaining, Ct. where I live has state income taxes. Then you can sent their catalogs with all the prices that the coins were sold for to all your friends. You can brat to all of us and be happy. That is what I am going to do when I find the big one this year. what are you going to sell the little amount of money your receive from crooks. Gold bars are another big problems and honest gold dealers need to know the history of the bars. Take my advice or as mention above, off to jail you may go. I am interesting in recover pirates treasure in Ct. I will follow my own advice or off to jail I will go and Tippy has to find a new good home. Then the federal government will sell the treasures and off to foreign aids it will go. Which really urine me off. We cannot afford to give hard earn tax payers money away to crooked governments. Selling the treasures a little at a time and selling it when you get big amounts to buy a mansion or a R R will get a free ticket to jail. Good luck and good hunting.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Admit nothing,deny everything,make counteraccusations!!!!!!

It is against the law to lie to law enforcement like the IRS. They will ask you where you got all the money you spend.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Let us assume that you find pirate treasures in Connecticut worth ten millions dollars. As stated before, coin dealers on the most part will rip you off big time. I been in the business since 1964. You go into a store and state that you inhere the coin collection, they would ask you how much you want, you tell them that you do not know. Bad idea. They will give you very little. If it was me, I would have them taken from the site to Stack's & Bowers coin auction and they get the best prices. They will detect their cost and perhaps state and federal income taxes. Stop complaining, Ct.

As a general rule, I agree with you. Find your treasure, pay your taxes, enjoy your wealth. The problem is that it often isn't that simple. If I find the Lost Aztec Gold in Texas--even on my own property, Mexico is going to want it back. The U.S. government is going to side with them. I will end up with a fraction of it's worth, and have to pay federal income taxes on that fraction. Texas has no state income tax. Out of the fraction I get to keep there is a good chance that I will have to use it to pay lawyers to fight off the lawsuits from bums who want to get their claws into it and make up some lawsuit lottery story. The same is true if I find pirate treasure, coins or gold bars. In the end, I might have been able to keep more had I gone to the shifty coin dealers. Where we totally agree is that you shouldn't lie to the federal government, or any government agency. Fortunately, in the United States you have the right to remain silent (at least for now), which is good advice. Don't lie. Don't say anything. Criminal liability avoided. On the other hand, remaining silent/pleading the 5th can work against you in civil court so to paraphrase the old saying, "You finds your money and you takes your chances." So I think the best route to take if you find a large treasure is to pay the greedy lawyer to find the best path out of the minefield and follow that advice. You can drip your treasure into your life over a long period of time, but the longer it takes the greater the risk of some alarm bell going off in a federal bean counter's office. You can cash it all in at once, but then you are left with a bunch of loose cash laying around and no way to explain it. If the government finds out about it you are screwed. If criminals find out about it you are dead. So pay the lawyer to give you the best advice and be done with it.