Wax seal?

[trapperart]

Here are some better pics of the find. I'm convinced it's a wax seal flat,recessed and I think the give away is the 6 fastener marks on the back. I found this at the same place I found this 1500s 4 maravedis a couple months ago. What do you think? Thanks Art

 

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[ARC]

If this is a fob... which is possible...
Very thin... but possible.
Not any K in gold... Poss gold filled.
Anything is possible...

It IS Carnelian ... And it is an Intaglio... this is obvious.

Yes there were six point atachments...
But generally...
Fobs have more "meat"... and are not that size.

Here are other 6 points.



Oh and btw way...
I looked at the "face" again on back...

Not monkey after staring at it.
Almost demonic.

 

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[ARC]

Front face of a Cameo Locket.Nice find.

SS

I also agree with this poss...
Locket "door" is gone.

 

[dr-quest]

Yes it is a Carnelian stone, and Intaglio simply means incised into the surface rather then cut in relief as all cameos are. The reason being it is meant to create the image when pressed into the wax.

 

[ARC]

Just because the image is cut into this does not automatically mean it is for impressions.
Its size and "beef" is not consistent with a "watch fob".
It is just too big IMO.

I have handled well over 100 fobs and wax seals...
And have retained 6 special ones which I have a picture of right now if you want to see.
One of which IS a carnelian intaglio seal... and is in no way similar to this...
And its the largest one I have ever seen...
An this is still twice as big.

These (intaglios) have been made for 1000's of years... in all forms... in all stones... and every other material on earth... in all sizes.
In rings...
Hat pins...
Lockets...
Stick pins...
Scarf holders...
Pendants... Everything under the sun has been made using these.

Watch fobs are generally much smaller than this which led me "away" from a "fob"...
BUT...
Like I said...
Anything is possible.

Perhaps some research is in order here.

 

[dr-quest]

IMO the one is pretty much the same size as the second one of mine shown, which is cut into rock crystal and that is not the biggest I have seen. . The six contact points is pretty much a dead giveaway IMO, no brooches are attached like that. Also the first one in my photo [blue one] is paste in gold filled holder. But ? who knows, I`m content

 

[ARC]

Hmmmm...

MAybe poster has small hands

:P

 

[ARC]

Oh and btw... this is a quick representation of a "setting" type ...
Now I know this is a "four" point attachment...
But they had ALL numbers.

I also know this is a cameo...
I am not really feeling that great...
not gonna go on the "hunt" for exact type of set I am looking for.

But like I said... anything could be.

 

[ARC]

Alright... alright...
Lets try to solve this one...
It could be a lot of things maybe...
So...
ART...
More pics...
This time with a US coin next to it...
A good thickness pic perhaps even.

Take a measurement as well.

 

[trapperart]

specs

Alright... alright...
Lets try to solve this one...
It could be a lot of things maybe...
So...
ART...
More pics...
This time with a US coin next to it...
A good thickness pic perhaps even.

Take a measurement as well.

1.250 long 1.040 wide .160 thick these are thousands of an inch

 

[ARC]

After seeing this...
Still think it is more jewelry related.

:P

 

[CRUSADER]

After seeing this...
Still think it is more jewelry related.

:P

If we assume it was a fob seal, by the 19th C most were exactly that - jewelry - not a working seal.

 

[ARC]

Fobs... were not jewelry... per say.
They were an "adornment".

 

[ironhorse]

Jewelry is an adornment....per se

#clickbait

 

[CRUSADER]

Fobs... were not jewelry... per say.
They were an "adornment".

semantics

 

[ARC]

Agreed.

The question was IF it is a "seal"... or "fob".

Of which It is neither... IMO of course. :P

 

[ARC]

Purely a decorative "adorning" heh... type piece... but not designed as a "tool" for wax.
Its size is a prohibitive factor in more than one way...

Ever seal with wax ?
The larger the stamp... the more the wax... the more the wax... the harder it was to do...
For many reasons.

#1... Its not that easy on larger than a dime sizes to get good impressions without pressure.
#2... The larger the seal... the more "heft" in structure generally of the stamp.
#3... wax was VERY expensive throughout time... and this would have been a "costly" stamp.

Quality waxes are even expensive today.
Beeswax being the most common then...
Along with Tallow wax. (animal guts)
Whale blubber oil wax was another.

Just a little trivia...

One of the most protected trades to the King... Candle maker.
Wax was taxed up and down throughout time.

And possession of used wax was punishable by death in Medieval times.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Isnt it a camo brooch missing the bust?

 

[ARC]

Isnt it a camo brooch missing the bust?

This would be more likely and what I am "leaning" to.

BUT...
Like I stated earlier...

Anything is poss.

 

[ARC]

OF COURSE... we cannot rule out a few "obvious" things about this "weird" piece...

#1... It IS broken...
#2... It IS cracked...
#3... It IS a stone...

Which COULD be indicative... OF...
A ...
Bad /poorly designed... Too Large... Fob OR Seal... that broke :P

 

[ARC]

Oh... and one more little tidbit on "old trades"...

Jewelry and candle making are the 2 oldest trades of man.
Candle making being FAR more important.

Candle making... although it was just "fire / ember" tending then...
Was essential...
Absolute necessity...
Nothing else mattered besides food and water.

Wanna watch a good movie on this...

"Quest for Fire".

Not one word in the entire movie.
Tis great.