Water in the desert

[Bigcypresshunter]

First of all,how dumb do you have to be to go hiking in the desert without enough water,

LOL I was dumb enough to do it but I figured it was OK because I wasnt out in a desert. I happened to be in a dried up swamp and all I had was what amounted to a few mudholes. I should have read this post first... some good ideas. Nobody mentioned how to filter. I thought about collecting morning dew but didnt do it. I couldnt use the plastic because I didnt have time. I wanted to keep walking or I would be caught in the dark. Here is my dumb story. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,381928.0.html http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,381928.0.html

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

84 year old survives 5 days in desert by drinking windshield wiper fluid. He says he'll never leave home again without water and matches. http://www.newser.com/story/112147/arizona-man-henry-morello-84-survives-5-day-desert-ordeal.html

 

[Dave44]

As a much younger fella my friends and I went into the desert to spend a week and camp. 3 truckloads of supplies and 1 jeep and alot of beer. On the way out 1 buddy hit a rock with a tire which turned the steering wheel, caught his thumb in the wheel and tore his hand open (power steering is a fantastic invention nowadays). Another buddy decided he had to take him back so we moved the beer to another pickup.
The next day another buddy decided he didn't like camping, he headed out, we transferred more beer and headed deeper into the desert. The next day we had 2 more drop out, They took the last pickup. My friend and I stayed out 3 more days and the last day we had a bunch of bananas and a 2 cases of beer. We also moved camp from a nice shaded overhang to a nice dry greasewood. Looking back that doesn't seem as smart.
Well friends I am proud to say that we stuck it out that night, once you get enough beer you don't seem to be as thirsty. But those darn bananas do not mix well. We left the next morning and felt bad for a week, It was 20 years before I ate bananas again.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I love that story Dave44!!! If you'd have taken Daiquiri fixins, the bananas would have been fine!!

That old guy was really resourceful once he got into a problem, but depending on where you live, carrying water sometimes has to be an every day concern.

Where we come from (Pa), we are brought up to have a food stash, blanket or sleeping bag and water in our cars, along with NEVER letting your car have less than half a tank of gas. I was brought up that way, and I made my kids do that. Back in those days, it was nothing to get huge snow storms that would leave you stranded, not being able to get home (we lived on a mountain). The problem in cold states is to remember to bring the water, because you just cannot leave it out in your car (there, and here, it frequently freezes and breaks the containers they are in).

Our cars and trucks are never empty - they always have supplies, tucked somewhere. We usually travel with the dogs, so, remembering to bring water every time we go out somewhere is not an issue, but, sometimes, its those "I'll be right back" trips that can get you in trouble, too.

B

 

[Treasure finder]

I took a desert survival course at Joshua Tree Desert Park in California.
As far as the sun still goes with the plastic sheeting in the ground goes, it produces very
little water, not enough to live on. A friend of mine made one and collected about a cup
of water in an all day experiment. You should have a gallon per day per person.
The best way according to the instructor was the plastic bag tied around a tree branch.
When the tree breathes it condenses on the inside of the plastic bag. I don't remember
how much it produces, but one or two such bags is plenty per person. Remember to take
your plastic bags! Try it out at home some day.
Rich

 

[Oroblanco]

Treasure finder wrote

Try it out at home some day.

Excellent advice; we all should practice our survival skills while safe at home including methods of obtaining water and building a fire without matches or other such 'cheats'. It does no harm to hone your skills and could prove to be life saving.

Ditto on those water condensing pits using the ground as the sole source; it helps to have green vegetation in the pit and you will need several of them to have any chance of getting enough water to survive on - one will not produce enough to keep you alive.
Oroblanco

 

[Treasure finder]

As I remember the process where water comes from the plants is
called "Transpiration" which where the water comes from that is
collecting inside the plastic bag tied around the leaves. I don't know
for sure, but I suspect that the larger the leaves, the more transpiration
you will get. Cactus has small spines to conserve water.
Rich

 

[Skywola]

In the case of being in the desert with no water, first perhaps, if you were stupid enough to go out there without a sufficient water supply, you should just put your pistol to your head and pull the trigger.
If it is hot, and you are spending time digging holes for water, you are going to sweat more water than you will get back from the hole. Not a wise idea. If you wait til night, that could work, but you may just freeze to death too, depending on where you are and what time of year it is, and if you were smart enough to bring the right supplies, if not, pull out the pistol and use it.
If you were entirely stupid, and did not bring enough water, fire starting supplies, or a pistol, bend down and kiss your ass goodbye,
and suffer a long and excruciating death well earned by your stupidity.

P. S. If you brought the pistol but forgot the ammo, give yourself a few extra jackass points.

 

[TheNewCatfish]

"Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink". As a Hurricane Katrina survivor in New Orleans i wish to add some of my own personal experience on the subject. New Orleans was like a desert after Katrina, because there was no "clean" water anywhere to drink. The authorities warned people extensively to boil their drinking water. And most people did, but quickly got sick ANYWAY. Why ? Because they were eating off plates and drinking out of cups washed in "dirty contaminated" water. For all their good intentions, health officials never expanded on ANY of their early superficial public warnings. No one was ever warned against bathing or washing their face and hands in polluted water either.

On a camping trip, i once contracted amoebic dysentery. It feels like having a 12 inch long knitting needle plunged into your naval and having someone wrench it around in circles. The dysentery also multiplies your dehydration threat 1000X. Long story short. Your odds of survival without hospital treatment are zero.

As for the REAL desert, finding fuel is going to be a BIG problem in most desert environments as well. Wood will be very scarce and valuable. Especially at night when the temperature drops to near freezing. Waste wood boiling water inefficiently and you're in big trouble again. Water doesn't boil easily in a metal container. Anyone who has had to do this knows it can take an excessive amount of wood to maintain a rolling boil for 30 minutes. Try this instead. Fill a 9 oz. plastic drink bottle, tie a string around the neck and hold it suspended over a very small fire made from a few sticks and twigs. You'll get the point immediately, especially if you're the one burning calories gathering the fuel.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Now - someone has been watching Les Stroud!!

In a 1972 flood, people had problems with the same thing - people were getting malaria (yes, its still around in the states).


Beth



Oh, by the way - if anyone has actually tried cactus "water" --------------- it can make you upchuck.

 

[TheNewCatfish]

Actually i think television shows like "Survivorman" are more likely to get someone killed than save anyone. Your BoyScout Manual or Basic Survival Course isn't going to do you much good in the high desert. For instance, moss isn't found on the south side of a tree where i live. Sandstorms blow predominantly out of the west around here. Find any moss on a tree that hasn't been scoured clean by sand and it's probably going to be on the east side of a tree. Looking for greenery to find water can be a waste of time here too. Plenty of trees grow atop the underground aquifer here. If you don't know where the aquifer runs, you can waste alot of time. Try digging that deep and you better have a backhoe with you. You'll die of heatstroke long before you reach water. Before i moved out here, i never even heard of "hydrating" several days before taking a hike of any distance.

Best advise for even an "experienced" outdoorsman from elsewhere, is don't UNDERESTIMATE the LETHALITY of the DESERT. Talk to the locals about water sources, landmarks and trails before you hike anywhere. DON'T BUSHWACK ! Stick to known trails, dry creekbeds or roads ! And Good Luck. But hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

TheNewCatfish,

Well, moss isn't supposed to be found on the south side of the tree - its the north side. Actually - its the shaded side - which stays damper longer, and is more apt to grow fungus and moss.

And, I agree with you 100%. Survivorman is bad, but BEAR GRYLSS is horrible! That man is really going to get himself and other people killed.
If he hasn't already. Of course, the dead tell no tales, so, we can only guess if someone on a trip died trying some of the garbage that he does.

I hate it when I hear someone say "oh, I only go with XXX bottles of water, because I know where to find it". Especially in the desert. I have learned - unfortunately, the hard way, because that is apparently the only way I remember things well, that you cannot, should not - and I won't,
bank my life on the fact that there is water someplace, just because it has been there the last 5 years that I was there, even through dry years. I have been lucky enough to have a dog who could find water like a mule, or else, I would not be writing this. I now have - and know of - several water caches in several places in several deserts. And then, I still don't count on them. Luckily, I have friends who cache food and supplies, too, and they know where ours are (most of them), and I know where most of their's are. They are welcome to use what they need - and vice-versa, and I STILL don't depend on it.

Also, something that yanks my tail, is folks who say "oh, I only need 1 quart of water a day" or whatever - well, I've been in the medical field for a long, long time - and, those folks, even if they survive for 20 years out in the desert doing that? They end up needing a kidney down the line. That's the problem with water - you can die and never have felt thirsty. Just because you feel fine, doesn't mean that toxins are not building up in your system, just getting ready to knock you down when you least expect it - like when you sit down for a break or a look-see.

Awareness is number one. Are you sweating? You're losing water. Are you NOT sweating? Your body could be compromised. Have you peed? What color was it? If its darker than usually - get some fluid. And you don't just lose water - there is a reason athletes use things like gatorade. You lose water, salt, potassium and necessary sugars when you sweat. Potassium is the number one salt for your heart to beat. Sugar - is a necessary fuel - and regular salts are the helpers - if you stop sweating, your body builds up toxins, like uric acid, and eventually, can poison you. There can even be a problem if your urine has no color - or you have lots of very light, light colored urine - your kidney's aren't filtering anymore.
You have got to be aware of all your bodily functions - and, if you are with a partner, make sure THEY are paying attention. It is really tough to have to get someone who is half delirious to a shady spot and get electrolytes into their system. Did it once - weighed 35 or 40 pounds more than me, had no friggin clue what he was doing or saying. Scared the bigabbers out of me. I don't carry gatorade, but I do carry water, a sugar and salt. (and by the way, salt also helps your body to use the fluid you are giving it, by acting like a wick).

Sorry for the rant - I've spent too much time out of MY trips helping others who were either not prepared, or thought they were fine, and weren't, digging dead people out of mines (my personal favorite), and looking for lost people from my own party. (another little thing I love - people who don't realize that nobody walks naturally in a straight line-and that will get you lost in a hurry).

I have personally found that, there are 2 main groups of folks who will have a problem - the weekender - just out for a day-hike, and the person, unfortunately, like me - who have been out hundreds of times, and just has to look "over there" without paying attention to where you came from, or marking your trail. (if you are smart, you won't do that - if you are smarter, you will mark your trail, even if you are just planning on looking right over there. It is amazing how everything can look exactly the same once you have turned around once.

Beth

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo Beth what I haven't seen mentioned is just how important clothing is. color, style, materiel, and method of wearing it.

Never never never use any 'synthetic' material's, you need the wicking effect of the cottons etc.

Never use tight fitting clothing with a belt, loose floppy types are better. Style is non existent in harsh or survival conditions. The slight movement with floppy clothing creates minor air movement next to the skin surface which tends to help keep you slightly cooler and uses less of your bodies scarce resource to do so.

Go for suspenders and loose clothes, the result, as above, is to use less of your bodies water to keep cool. the cooling starts with your bodies surface evaporation. With tight clothes, your clothes must be saturated before it starts becoming effective.

This is of course very basic, but despite the degrading remarks about 'rag heads', they have learned how to survive in extremely arid conditions, so leave your favorite Wyatt Earp western hat home and cover your head as the Arabs do. If you insist upon wearing one because of the sunlight problem make sure it is a loose fitting one, or of the German Africa corp type with a high crown.

In the accompanying picture I was going it alone in the desert region north west of San Felipe, Mexico on my way to commune with the old ones at an unknown archaeological site up in a hidden barranca in the high mountains of Baja.

Yes, notice the hat, my old Border Patrol one, habit more than common sense at that time. he h eh e That is a two quart forestry service canteen. I assumed that I could get there within two days, and use the spring that the old Indian had told me about. Another boo boo , this was supposing that it still existed many years after he had been there.

Another potentially serious boboo was over estimating my rate of ground coverage, it was basically UP hill.which forced me to start cutting the very scarce barrel cactus to mix with my remaining water at the end of the second day. (psst Beth mixed with water it isn't too bad.)

Incidentally, I left it exactly as I found it, unspoiled and as it was when the last of them either died or left unknown centuries ago. It was an unearthly experience. The story has been posted here in TN.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jose,

Right you are - 100%!!

Hat's - and the type of hat, is important, too - a boo-boo that I not only have made - I still make. I always have one - but I take it off (hats of all kind make my head itch) - but, if you have to be out in the sun, it important. And, you cannot go by temperature, either.

One rule I have always gone by......well, for the last 35 years, anyway - is, always figure 3 miles for each mile you want to go. For many reasons.
One, because, like you said, we tend to not estimate our rate of travel correctly, but also because, quite often, you have to go around things, up and down things, and over and under things - which extends your actual travel mileage.

The west is worse in this regard than the eastern states. In the east, they measure their mileage by actual mileage. In the west, their mileage is calculated as the crow flies - in a straight line (the same reason why 40 acres in the west is quite often more than 40 acres, unless it is totally flat).

A hiking site will, usually give you actual mileage (ie: this hike is 6.3 miles), but, if you just look at a map, they are going to give you the mileage in a straight line. Something to remember when you set up a GPS route, or when you are calculating just when you are going to get to your camp.

Beth

 

[Skywola]

Looks like a machete in the photo . . . I have a survival knife a little bit smaller than a machete, with a saw blade on the back. It saved my hide once already, I was going up an extremely steep grade and had something I had to hack out of the way, otherwise I would have had to try to get around it which would have been next to impossible.

You know Don Jose, I was thinking about what you wrote about tight fitting clothing, and it does not seem to me that your logic is so sound, no offence intended, but it seems to me that if you are wearing cotton (on that I certainly agree), and it is tight fitting, any sweat is going to be on the surface of your body, and, as a result, when it evaporates, it cools you. If you are wearing loose clothing, while you do get some extra wind/ventilation, you lose the benefit of some of the cooling due to evaporation that occurs from the sweat on the clothing no longer in contact with your body. I would agree however, that wearing an Arabic kufiya style, loose headdress would be a good idea.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola sky. good post. but my rationale is that it takes lots more sweat to reach the outer surface of your clothing to start to evaporate then much is lost in just cooling the outer layers of sweat, not your skin, while the loose clothing allows cooling at the actual surface of the skin where it is critically needed with a far less loss of critical moisture for the same cooling effect.

you are right on the machete, it is the full length working Collins. That is the one that I used in the jungles of Quintana Roo. I still have it.

Incidentally, this style is basically useless here in the Mexican scrub desert where most plant life and trees are hard, here they use a shorter curved, heavier, machete.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree with loose clothing. I dont dont about the desert but I cant wear tight fitting jeans here in Floridas summer months. Having bluejeans sticking to your skin will soon develop a nasty rash. I definitely prefer loose fitting lighter pants with air circulation.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Take a tip from Joe Namath.

Pantyhose can not only help keep warmth in - it helps stop chafing, and it breathes, so that the rest of your clothes can do the wicking up.

I cannot wear tight clothing either - I have to be able to move, especially when hiking.

I don't know about Florida, but, when we lived in Virginia - tight clothing was a pain too - Virginia has that humidity that just doesn't want to dry off. It leaves you sticky all summer - you sweat and it doesn't dry, and the sweat just stays on your skin. I used to have to use baby powder (very lightly) on my legs all the way down, and including, my feet.

In Virginia, if you are a sneaker wearer - better own at least 3 or 4 pairs - it takes a couple of days for your sneakers to dry every time you wear them, so I used to rotate them every day. (don't know if Florida has that problem or not)

Beth

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

In Virginia, if you are a sneaker wearer - better own at least 3 or 4 pairs - it takes a couple of days for your sneakers to dry every time you wear them, so I used to rotate them every day. (don't know if Florida has that problem or not)

Beth

We have humid summers but I put my shoes in the hot sun and they seem to dry completely. Just dont get caught in the rain.

 

[Skywola]

I do sometimes wear a tight cotton shirt, but I would not do that if I were planning on spending days wearing it, as bigcypresshunter stated, you can get a rash. I would not wear tight fitting pants, that is just going to slow you down.
Someone earlier made a remark about people who talk about having a high heat tolerance, well, I am one of those people, in fact, I sleep at home with the thermostat set at 80 degrees, less than that and I am uncomfortable. If you have a high heat tolerance, you can usually run circles around someone who does not, out in the desert. That does not mean that I do stupid things like go out without enough water, it just means that I thrive in the desert environment and in the heat. It is all just a matter of knowing one's limits.