WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[bigscoop]

LOL! Only the ORIGINAL copy of "said wills" would be accepted; all WE have are COPIES from the books & "NET"... HA!
GOOD LUCK in "enforcing" THAT! Even seen one "fake will" on the "net" somewhere...
AGAIN! RAW Gold, Raw Silver, some Jewelry from St. Loo...?

"Only the ORIGINAL copy of "said wills" would be accepted";....believe what you wish....

"AGAIN! RAW Gold, RAW Silver, & some JEWELRY...?" Why, thanks for asking! I'll take a truckload of both!

 

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Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[bigscoop]

You come in and finance my recoveries and you can have a truck load of each.

I told you before that if you can really document your case and show provenance then I can probably hook you up with a backer. We discussed this before, remember?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

BUT! WHAT are we looking for...? RAW Gold, RAW Silver, some JEWELRY from St. LOO...? Gold Coins, Silver Coins, some Jewelry...? GOLD Bars, SILVER Bars, some Jewelry...?

 

[ECS]

BEALL,BEALE HERE,A BELL,BEALE THERE,HERE A BEALL,THERE A BEALE,EVERYWHERE A BEALE ...

Here's what I think you will eventually workout......the whole "Beale/Beall" issue is very misleading and confusing as far as who was actually who. I noticed this first in New Orleans.

At this point I think Franklin is correct when he claims that a Beale party went west, however, I think that party's source was much different then what he thinks it to be. A Captain Thomas Beall, said to be of Harper's Fairy, can even be placed on one of the vessels transporting the French refugees. So, if we use the timeline that ECS posted earlier and we add a few more points of interest to it then it might look something like this:

1816- Laffite occupies Galveston Island.
1817- APRIL,Beale expedition travels west and finds gold and some silver and works mine for 18 months until Oct 1818.Beale Sr-53,Beale Jr 17,during 1817.
1817- Vine & Olive Land Grant is approved.
1817- A Captain Thomas Beale/Beall is aboard a vessel transporting French refugees.
1817- French Refugees from New Orleans begin to arrive at Galveston Island
1818- Adam’s Onis Treaty is signed. Graham visits Texas. Lallemand leaves with Graham and fails to carry out his promise to return.
1819-According to Beale cipher,Beale makes first deposit in Virginia.
1820-Sept-Beale Sr dies in New Orleans,age 56.
1821- Beale (Jr?) spends winter at Washington Hotel and gives Morriss iron box with ciphers.
1821- Adam’s Onis Treaty is ratified.
1821- Laffite leaves Galveston.
1821-According to Beale cipher,Beale makes 2nd deposit in Virginia.
1822-Beale(Jr?) returns to Washinton Hotel and spends the winter.
1823- Monroe Doctrine introduced on December 2.
1823-Oct-Beale Jr dies in New Orleans,age 24.
1829/30 – The Laffites & Joseph Boneparte are in Richmond for nearly a year. While there Joseph Boneparte writes President Monroe a letter inquiring about payments received for services rendered, Monroe replies “utterly” denying the claim. (The Monroe letter still survives while Boneparte’s letter seems to have disappeared for the time being?)

But there is also a lot more to all of this.

There were a lot of Thomas Beales in the area at that time.
What if the Thomas J Beale who presented himself to Morriss was just an alias used to fit in with the locals ?That would make him a "familar stranger".
...and who was Chlory Delancy/Chloe Dalancy/Delaney from Boteourt County who claimed to be heir of Beale Sr's Virginia property after his death in 1820?

 

[bigscoop]

There were a lot of Thomas Beales in the area at that time.
What if the Thomas J Beale who presented himself to Morriss was just an alias used to fit in with the locals ?That would make him a "familar stranger".
...and who was Chlory Delancy/Chloe Dalancy/Delaney from Boteourt County who claimed to be heir of Beale Sr's Virginia property after his death in 1820?

According to the unknown author, he first learned of the affair in 1862 after setting up an interview with Morriss. We also know he had important business affairs in Richmond. At the beginning of the Beale Pamphlet we are told that the story was confined to his "immediate family" and one true friend he could always rely. Keep this in mind:

In 1862 "Bonaparte" representatives were trying to buy property in the Lynchburg/Bedford area, at this time there were also French representatives under Napoleon III in Richmond. In 1862 Napoleon III was also trying to seize control over Mexico under heavy American protest. In the Pamphlet, "TJB" wasn't used in referencing just a name, but rather it was used as a form of alias. If you want to know who the unknown author was then it all comes down to who, exactly, was in Richmond in 1862 representing the French interest?

Now consider your question: What if the Thomas J Beale who presented himself to Morriss was just an alias used to fit in with the locals ?That would make him a "familar stranger". Now you're hitting on the true roots to the Beale Pamphlet.

There is a reason "Burford's" is referenced in the Pamphlet and it wasn't just being referenced as a landmark.

The Beale Pamphlet presents a fascinating bit of history for those who are willing to entertain and investigate the, "connexions".

 

[bigscoop]

That sail won't fly as there were people living in Lynchburg that knew Thomas J. Beale-----one being James Beverly Risque. I am quite sure he would know if there was a Thomas J. Beale in town or just an imposter. Sorry that boat won't float.

No.....you're completely missing the entire ship. "Familiar stranger".....that was exactly the point/purpose.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

According to the unknown author, he first learned of the affair in 1862 after setting up an interview with Morriss. We also know he had important business affairs in Richmond. At the beginning of the Beale Pamphlet we are told that the story was confined to his "immediate family" and one true friend he could always rely. Keep this in mind:

In 1862 "Bonaparte" representatives were trying to buy property in the Lynchburg/Bedford area, at this time there were also French representatives under Napoleon III in Richmond. In 1862 Napoleon III was also trying to seize control over Mexico under heavy American protest. In the Pamphlet, "TJB" wasn't used in referencing just a name, but rather it was used as a form of alias. If you want to know who the unknown author was then it all comes down to who, exactly, was in Richmond in 1862 representing the French interest?

Now consider your question: What if the Thomas J Beale who presented himself to Morriss was just an alias used to fit in with the locals ?That would make him a "familar stranger". Now you're hitting on the true roots to the Beale Pamphlet.

There is a reason "Burford's" is referenced in the Pamphlet and it wasn't just being referenced as a landmark.

The Beale Pamphlet presents a fascinating bit of history for those who are willing to entertain and investigate the, "connexions".

HA! It's BUFORD'S... not BURFORD'S. P. Buford WAS Captain of an Artillery in War of 1812. His Tombstone even has crossed cannon barrels on it... buried on his land in his CITY OF THE DEAD. "X" marks the spot, eh...?

 

[bigscoop]

HA! It's BUFORD'S... not BURFORD'S. P. Buford WAS Captain of an Artillery in War of 1812. His Tombstone even has crossed cannon barrels on it... buried on his land in his CITY OF THE DEAD. "X" marks the spot, eh...?

Ooops...just a spelling error. A lot of artillery men from the War of 1812 right in the thick of things. There was a reason why the US wouldn't let certain French interest get too rooted in this country. A lot of historians believe the Monroe Doctrine was mainly aimed at the British but this just isn't the case. Even in 1862 certain French interest were still holding a grudge over the effects of that document.

 

[bigscoop]

Let me take a moment and provide you with a basic sketch of what was going on after Waterloo. After Waterloo Napoleon was eventually on the run, at his side was General Charles Lallemand. Not only was Napoleon on the run but so were all of his loyal supporters, including some family members. At this time the intention was to escape to America, a journey Napoleon would had made had it not been for one bad decision, a decision Lallemand didn't join him in making. Now none of this happened quickly and suffice to say that one can only imagine the amount of advanced planning that took place in order to have that ship ready when Lallemand arrived at his pickup location. Point is, there was a lot of advanced planning that took place. The same can be said of Joseph and for most of the major Bonaparte supports that made it to America as well. These men had to dodge countless customs and ship and passenger inspections along the way, not something easily done even with a lot of help. This same type of advanced planning went into the two transfers/deposits in the Beale Pamphlet, something that far surpassed the means of the 30 simple adventurers outlined in the fairytale portion of that pamphlet. It is true that the party was structured in a military fashion simply because the participants were all experienced, loyal military men. One question that I think everyone needs to ask themselves is this; Who can afford to leave such a vast amount of wealth stashed away for so long? Who had a cause that demanded it?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Let me take a moment and provide you with a basic sketch of what was going on after Waterloo. After Waterloo Napoleon was eventually on the run, at his side was General Charles Lallemand. Not only was Napoleon on the run but so were all of his loyal supporters, including some family members. At this time the intention was to escape to America, a journey Napoleon would had made had it not been for one bad decision, a decision Lallemand didn't join him in making. Now none of this happened quickly and suffice to say that one can only imagine the amount of advanced planning that took place in order to have that ship ready when Lallemand arrived at his pickup location. Point is, there was a lot of advanced planning that took place. The same can be said of Joseph and for most of the major Bonaparte supports that made it to America as well. These men had to dodge countless customs and ship and passenger inspections along the way, not something easily done even with a lot of help. This same type of advanced planning went into the two transfers/deposits in the Beale Pamphlet, something that far surpassed the means of the 30 simple adventurers outlined in the fairytale portion of that pamphlet. It is true that the party was structured in a military fashion simply because the participants were all experienced, loyal military men. One question that I think everyone needs to ask themselves is this; Who can afford to leave such a vast amount of wealth stashed away for so long? Who had a cause that demanded it?

A BETTER question is... WHAT was "stashed away for so long"...

 

[bigscoop]

A BETTER question is... WHAT was "stashed away for so long"...

I think the description in the pamphlet is probably pretty accurate, gold & silver for sure, though who can really say in what form for certain? Most likely bullion, but it could also be in coin or even a variety of pure metals. As it is listed right down to the exact pound I would venture to say this was for value reasons as much as it was for actual weight. Jewels, pretty sure these were also present at the time and provided in accurate value as well. Given that it may sit for quite some time, as long as the weights were in a pure form then the value of the stash could always be calculated and known. I seriously doubt that it is still there, however, there are a few indications that it could be. Still looking into that.

 

[tat2guy]

Better question yet regarding napolean! Why was his rescue party planning on rescuing him from brazil? Why not st Helena? We're Virginians involved with this rescue? Sounds like war was beneficial to many of this people.

 

[ECS]

TJB and Party were sent out to the SW by either a secret mission by the President or either the retired President Thomas Jefferson... Either way they brought gold and silver back...

This is where the Beale story "borrows" from the journals of the "secret mission" of the LONG-BELL EXPEDITION of 1820,the journal of E F BEALE and his expeditions,and the discovery of silver near Pikes Peak in 1823 by JAMES COCKRELL.
Then add the ciphers of Edgar Allen Poe,and you got the making of a grat western treasure hunt dime store novel.
Cipher 2 starts out: "I hAvE dEPOsited in the county of..."
Notice the the anagram-" I E A POE"

 

[bigscoop]

This is where the Beale story "borrows" from the journals of the "secret mission" of the LONG-BELL EXPEDITION of 1820,the journal of E F BEALE and his expeditions,and the discovery of silver near Pikes Peak in 1823 by JAMES COCKRELL.
Then add the ciphers of Edgar Allen Poe,and you got the making of a grat western treasure hunt dime store novel.
Cipher 2 starts out: "I hAvE dEPOsited in the county of..."
Notice the the anagram-" I E A POE"

There's those magic letters again. This same thing takes place with the numbers all the time as well. As humans, we have the tendency to over complicate what we don't understand and can't explain. An endless number of "anagrams" can be produced in similar fashion, just pick a book off any shelf or any subject of interest and you will be able to produce similar "mysterious anagrams" that appear to be connected with the subject at hand. However, there is no real mystery in this given the amount of letters and numbers one can employ and the amount of unlimited systems/formulas one can create to arrive at his goal. If you want to believe Donald Duck wrote the Beale Pamphlet after reading books by John Gresham you can certainly create the same type case situation in similar fashion. This is why there are so many similar formulas and theories out there, because the shear amount of numbers and letters at one's disposal make it all possible.

 

[bigscoop]

You know, many of the various solutions that have been produced over the years stand as perfect examples of why ciphers are employed in the first place. Trying to attack the ciphers without a key or any legitimate insight into what they actually say is pointless.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You know, many of the various solutions that have been produced over the years stand as perfect examples of why ciphers are employed in the first place. Trying to attack the ciphers without a key or any legitimate insight into what they actually say is pointless.

YA GOT IT!

 

[ECS]

You know, many of the various solutions that have been produced over the years stand as perfect examples of why ciphers are employed in the first place. Trying to attack the ciphers without a key or any legitimate insight into what they actually say is pointless.

That is what makes the BEALE PAPERS ingenious.
You can put many people and events during that given time period to fit the Beale story.On this thread alone are many examples of doing such as that.

 

[bigscoop]

That is what makes the BEALE PAPERS ingenious.
You can put many people and events during that given time period to fit the Beale story.On this thread alone are many examples of doing such as that.

Absolutely. However, some of the details in the following might interest you a bit, inspire you keep looking for the truth: (If you are up on some other documents, letters, etc., you will pickup on a few things.)
The Bonapartes in America ? Chapter 14

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Absolutely. However, some of the details in the following might interest you a bit, inspire you keep looking for the truth: (If you are up on some other documents, letters, etc., you will pickup on a few things.)
The Bonapartes in America ? Chapter*14

VERY good! Now, you are getting info to us to do R & I on...

 

[bigscoop]

This is what I meant before when I said it's complicated, a lot of things going on in just this one arena along. Once you amass all the various materials and absorb all the info and various details and make all the connections it leaves little doubt where the deposits came from and what they were intended for. "Morriss, Beale, Buford".....as well as a few others will all start to fall into place. The question is; "why was it still being looked for in 1862 and again in 1885?"

In 1818, when the French settled Champ de Asile, that site had already been predetermined and laid out. This means that a party had already been in the region, having spent enough time in the region to search out this ideal location and to layout the groundwork for the settlement. The gold in question, or more accurately "the treasury" in question, was already in the region before the settlers arrived in 1818, which is why none of them ever saw it. (A little detail here is that there was also a second fort in the region, though it's exact whereabouts still remains uncertain.) The Adam's Onis Treaty was a killer, the death of Napoleon in 1821 a huge setback, and the Monroe Doctrine of 1823 the final dagger. A lot of people think the Monroe Doctrine was geared toward the British but in 1862 Napoleon III was still quite steamed over the lasting effects of the document, one of the very reasons he tried to gain control of Mexico while we were busy with the Civil war.