WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

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Because MAC liked to "entertain" ppl with stories of OLD Lynchburg, Va. LOTS of FACTS with FICTION! (MAC wrote the "stories" down...). LAB encouraged her to have her "book" published in 1858 or so; Even Rev. Christian erred in HIS book based on MAC's book. For example, Robert & Sarah MORRISS (BP) was taken from MAC's "book"... BUT! It was based on Mayor Robert MORRIS & HIS wife, who DID "board" ppl in their home in 1817 +; then... ONLY the FRANKLIN HOTEL existed in Lynchburg, Va. 1823, Robert MORRIS managed the WASHINGTON HOTEL; it was built THAT year. Robert MORRIS (former MAYOR) was a "BIGGIE" in EARLY Lynchburg, Va. HISTORY... THAT is a FACT!
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
Way I read info... AFTER; (post 1885). He MAY have been living at Hunter's Hill (formerly owned by GRANDPA JB Risque); JBW's MOTHER was Risque's daughter. Located in Campbell County, Va. (South of Lynchburg), along Dreaming Creek, EAST of New London, Va. & SOUTH of Poplar Forest (@ 5-6 miles); area is FULL of history & "treasure legends". JBW's FATHER was Giles Ward; JBW married Harriet Emmaline BUFORD, daughter of John BUFORD & Angeline Brown-Otey; THUS, the BUFORD/RISQUE/WARD "connection". The Brown & Otey families are also "BIG" in this SAGA!
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It all leads back to the Hutter brothers and their cousin J B Ward.
,and have its beginning in April 1865 in Dannville with the remaining CSA treasury,Davis & cabinet,and VMI grad,CSA Major E S Hutter.
 

ECS said:
It all leads back to the Hutter brothers and their cousin J B Ward.
,and have its beginning in April 1865 in Dannville with the remaining CSA treasury,Davis & cabinet,and VMI grad,CSA Major E S Hutter.
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Let's step back for a minute, consider what we're really saying about the story with these CSA summaries. The whole premise of the mystery is based on events that we're told took place during the period 1817 - 1822, the details of which are provided to use in a story that wasn't published until 1885, the period of it's writing unknown but certainly sometime after 1861. Going back to the details in the story, the presented details in the story provided to us, once we change the basic foundation of the story and the period in which it occurred then the entire story itself becomes fiction and there is no real mystery to be solved other then what we have fabricated in our own minds. Hence, the letters can not be real, the iron box and it's contents cannot be real, there was no party in the west, the ciphers cannot be real, and there were no deposits. In essence, everything becomes a complete fabrication. The only hope that any portion of the story is true resides in the discovering of the evidence that supports the actual possibilities of the details offered in the original story. All of these other summaries simply serve to prove that the original story, or any portion of it, isn't true.
 

bigscoop said:
Let's step back for a minute, consider what we're really saying about the story with these CSA summaries. The whole premise of the mystery is based on events that we're told took place during the period 1817 - 1822, the details of which are provided to use in a story that wasn't published until 1885, the period of it's writing unknown but certainly sometime after 1861. Going back to the details in the story, the presented details in the story provided to us, once we change the basic foundation of the story and the period in which it occurred then the entire story itself becomes fiction and there is no real mystery to be solved other then what we have fabricated in our own minds. Hence, the letters can not be real, the iron box and it's contents cannot be real, there was no party in the west, the ciphers cannot be real, and there were no deposits. In essence, everything becomes a complete fabrication. The only hope that any portion of the story is true resides in the discovering of the evidence that supports the actual possibilities of the details offered in the original story. All of these other summaries simply serve to prove that the original story, or any portion of it, isn't true.
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"FACTS of history" were utilized to write a "COVER-STORY"... Confederate Treasure Coverup tells how Chapt. 15, STORY, pg. 97-101.
 

bigscoop said:
Let's step back for a minute, consider what we're really saying about the story with these CSA summaries. The whole premise of the mystery is based on events that we're told took place during the period 1817 - 1822, the details of which are provided to use in a story that wasn't published until 1885, the period of it's writing unknown but certainly sometime after 1861. Going back to the details in the story, the presented details in the story provided to us, once we change the basic foundation of the story and the period in which it occurred then the entire story itself becomes fiction and there is no real mystery to be solved other then what we have fabricated in our own minds. Hence, the letters can not be real, the iron box and it's contents cannot be real, there was no party in the west, the ciphers cannot be real, and there were no deposits. In essence, everything becomes a complete fabrication. The only hope that any portion of the story is true resides in the discovering of the evidence that supports the actual possibilities of the details offered in the original story. All of these other summaries simply serve to prove that the original story, or any portion of it, isn't true.
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YOUR focus is on the "ORIGINAL" story... those "events" PROBABLY did happen; just utilized as a "cover-up" story of 1885.
 

Rebel - KGC said:
"FACTS of history" were utilized to write a "COVER-STORY"... Confederate Treasure Coverup tells how Chapt. 15, STORY, pg. 97-101.
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So in this sense we've basically taken a written story, changed all the provided details of that story, i.e. when, where, who, etc., in order to make the original story harbor some measure of truth?

In 1870 Spanish records record that two ships were lost near Cape Canaveral while going from Mexico to Santa Domingo. In this case the true story, while harboring some measure of truth, is clearly lacking some much needed detail. One can only wonder how these two ships ended up so far off course, yet this true event still took place in 1870.

There's only so much of any story that can be changed before the entire story itself becomes a complete falsehood. I think what we're seeing is this; the lack of information and records pertaining to the period 1817-1821 and the events surrounding the Beale Pamphlet has caused many to look for the answers elsewhere. But we've been down these same dead end roads many, many times in the past.
 

bigscoop said:
So in this sense we've basically taken a written story, changed all the provided details of that story, i.e. when, where, who, etc., in order to make the original story harbor some measure of truth?

In 1870 Spanish records record that two ships were lost near Cape Canaveral while going from Mexico to Santa Domingo. In this case the true story, while harboring some measure of truth, is clearly lacking some much needed detail. One can only wonder how these two ships ended up so far off course, yet this true event still took place in 1870.

There's only so much of any story that can be changed before the entire story itself becomes a complete falsehood. I think what we're seeing is this; the lack of information and records pertaining to the period 1817-1821 and the events surrounding the Beale Pamphlet has caused many to look for the answers elsewhere. But we've been down these same dead end roads many, many times in the past.
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LOL! "Dead ends" for YOU... MAYBE!
 

bigscoop said:
So in this sense we've basically taken a written story, changed all the provided details of that story, i.e. when, where, who, etc., in order to make the original story harbor some measure of truth?

There's only so much of any story that can be changed before the entire story itself becomes a complete falsehood. I think what we're seeing is this; the lack of information and records pertaining to the period 1817-1821 and the events surrounding the Beale Pamphlet has caused many to look for the answers elsewhere. But we've been down these same dead end roads many, many times in the past.
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As hard as one tries to find historical records outside of the Beale pamphlet to support the story contained therein,one can find "possible coincidental" connections,but never any real direct connection.Hence that rabbit hole down to the yellow brick road,onto the lost highway on a mobius trip back to the rabbit hole.
The Hutters and Ward had access to the original BEALE PAPERS of 1850 by E F Beale and his journeys,coupled with CSA Major E S Hutters knowledge of Confederate ciphers,Sherman's knowledge of Poe's works with ciphers(THE GOLD BUG)and his writing several dime novels concerning the west and lost treasures,use names familar to the residents of Bedford County,and you have a local best seller at 50 cents a pop.
 

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ECS said:
As hard as one tries to find historical records outside of the Beale pamphlet to support the story contained therein,one can find "possible coincidental" connections,but never any real direct connection.Hence that rabbit hole down to the yellow brick road,onto the lost highway on a mobius trip back to the rabbit hole.
The Hutters and Ward had access to the original BEALE PAPERS of 1850 by E F Beale and his journeys,coupled with CSA Major E S Hutters knowledge of Confederate ciphers,Sherman's knowledge of Poe's works with ciphers(THE GOLD BUG)and his writing several dime novels concerning the west and lost treasures,use names familar to the residents of Bedford County,and you have a local best seller at 50 cents a pop.
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How many were sold? A hundred, two-hundred? At .50 a pop that almost paid for all the advertising and printing and effort. Not exactly a huge project that was pursued too earnestly once it became available for purchase. In the presented scenario - a lot of conspirators hoping to reap a nice profit, even more if it was fund raising attempt.
 

bigscoop said:
How many were sold? A hundred, two-hundred? At .50 a pop that almost paid for all the advertising and printing and effort. Not exactly a huge project that was pursued too earnestly once it became available for purchase. In the presented scenario - a lot of conspirators hoping to reap a nice profit, even more if it was fund raising attempt.
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Why was it only advertised in Lynchburg,and not in Philadelphia,Baltimore,or New Orleans to attract the attention of others who may have been involved if an actual treasure existed?
It does appear to have been written and published for local interest and local buyers.
 

ECS said:
Why was it only advertised in Lynchburg,and not in Philadelphia,Baltimore,or New Orleans to attract the attention of others who may have been involved if an actual treasure existed?
It does appear to have been written and published for local interest and local buyers.
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Well, that's the other side of the coin to be considered, the fact that "it wasn't" being pursued/marketed to a large market, not even in Richmond which was right down the road and where the unknown author apparently conducted business. I agree 100% that it was introduced to a very specific and very limited market and that the exposure of the publication to this small "targeted" market was far more important then the actual number of anticipated future sells/profits.

This is actually one of the strengths supporting the notion that the pamphlet was intended to intice a response from the immediate area and that it was never produced with profits in mind.
 

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bigscoop said:
Well, that's the other side of the coin to be considered, the fact that "it wasn't" being pursued/marketed to a large market, not even in Richmond which was right down the road and where the unknown author apparently conducted business. I agree 100% that it was introduced to a very specific and very limited market and that the exposure of the publication to this small "targeted" market was far more important then the actual number of anticipated future sells/profits.

This is actually one of the strengths supporting the notion that the pamphlet was intended to intice a response from the immediate area and that it was never produced with profits in mind.
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Who,in your august opinion,was the Beale Papers meant to "intice" in the immediate area?
 

ECS said:
Who,in your august opinion,was the Beale Papers meant to "intice" in the immediate area?
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We've been down this road before, a few times, but since you asked to hear it again, in my august opinion, I think it was meant to "entice" anyone who may have still held knowledge of past affairs and possibly that badly needed, seeming insignificant, yet critical, "unintelligible piece of paper". The unknown author even tells us this, even admits that he had no difficulty in mastering the other two ciphers. In fact, he is quite clear on both these points, and I'm not reading between the lines here, he actually pens these very confessions in the pamphlet.
 

ECS said:
Why was it only advertised in Lynchburg,and not in Philadelphia,Baltimore,or New Orleans to attract the attention of others who may have been involved if an actual treasure existed?
It does appear to have been written and published for local interest and local buyers.
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Agree...
 

bigscoop said:
Well, that's the other side of the coin to be considered, the fact that "it wasn't" being pursued/marketed to a large market, not even in Richmond which was right down the road and where the unknown author apparently conducted business. I agree 100% that it was introduced to a very specific and very limited market and that the exposure of the publication to this small "targeted" market was far more important then the actual number of anticipated future sells/profits.

This is actually one of the strengths supporting the notion that the pamphlet was intended to intice a response from the immediate area and that it was never produced with profits in mind.
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A "DISCOVERY" Document... :laughing7: Will share MORE "local" HISTORY soon; AFTER the CONFEDERATE WAR, one of the Hutter "boys" (former high-ranking REBEL officer) worked for the City of Lynchburg, Va. INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE; HE would have "noticed" SUDDEN WEALTH... OR! COVER IT UP! HA! :treasurechest::2barsgold::2barsgold: :key: :tongue3: :coffee2: :hello2:
 

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franklin said:
You are not reading between the lines but you are miss-reading the existing lines.
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No, don't think so. He is very clear in making the statement that after using the DOI key to decode cipher 2 he had no difficulties in mastering the others. I've read these lines a thousand times and each time this is what it very clearly states. Not only this, but he is also very clear in bringing up the issue of the missing unintelligible piece of paper that he hopes his story will bring to light. These statements can't be misread as they are presented to us in very clear language.
 

bigscoop said:
... I've read these lines a thousand times and each time this is what it very clearly states... These statements can't be misread as they are presented to us in very clear language...
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As with his disclaimer statement:
"I would say a word to those who may take an interest in them..It is,to devote only such time as can be spared from your legitmate bussinessto the task,and if you can spare no time,let the matter alone".
Could our writer be saying,"Hey,its just a story,no real treasure,so don't waste your time trying to find it".
 

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