WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[Rebel - KGC]

If I didn't know what I know today I'd probably say, "Dime novel." But there is also this to consider; why, whenever we can't seem to discover a source, do we insist on creating complicated and complex author scenarios to explain what we can't explain otherwise? i.e., we can't explain the ciphers and details of the story so let's see what kind of complicated and complex application/system/thinking the author used to stump us all so badly. If anything, all of this complex and complicated author calculation only serves to prove that he didn't just simply make the story up. Do you really think Ward or Sherman were as intelligent as many of these complicated, calculating, and complex explanations make them out to be? I don't.

I don't either...

 

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[ECS]

... why, whenever we can't seem to discover a source, do we insist on creating complicated and complex author scenarios to explain what we can't explain otherwise? i.e., we can't explain the ciphers and details of the story so let's see what kind of complicated and complex application/system/thinking the author used to stump us all so badly. If anything, all of this complex and complicated author calculation only serves to prove that he didn't just simply make the story up. Do you really think Ward or Sherman were as intelligent as many of these complicated, calculating, and complex explanations make them out to be?..

Consider the Sherlock Holmes quotes by way of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle:
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible,then whatever remains,however improbable,must be the truth".
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".
Maybe the Beale pamphet is not all that complicated and complex,just the interpetation made,makes it appear so.
There are elements "borrowed" from the sources that I listed.
Then there are the anachronistic words in the Beale story,not in use during the Beale story period,BUT in use during the time of Sherman/Ward.
The C2 cipher was conveniently solved with the DOI,and provided in the Beale pamphlet as bait to lure others in to solve C1 & C3.
One reason C1 & C3 are unsolvable could be that they are random gibberish,not complex and caculated,and best minds and super deciphering computers can not decipher gibberish.
One last Holmes/Doyle quote:
"Eliminate all other factors,and the one which remains,must be the truth".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Anyone ever read THE BEALE PAPERS: Lost Legacy by Robert N. Williams...?

 

[bigscoop]

Consider the Sherlock Holmes quotes by way of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle:
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible,then whatever remains,however improbable,must be the truth".
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".
Maybe the Beale pamphet is not all that complicated and complex,just the interpetation made,makes it appear so.
There are elements "borrowed" from the sources that I listed.
Then there are the anachronistic words in the Beale story,not in use during the Beale story period,BUT in use during the time of Sherman/Ward.
The C2 cipher was conveniently solved with the DOI,and provided in the Beale pamphlet as bait to lure others in to solve C1 & C3.
One reason C1 & C3 are unsolvable could be that they are random gibberish,not complex and caculated,and best minds and super deciphering computers can not decipher gibberish.
One last Holmes/Doyle quote:
"Eliminate all other factors,and the one which remains,must be the truth".

Today we are fairly certain we know who was the source behind the Beale Pamphlet and why it was published. We also understand the "connexion" and why "Thomas Beale" was the focus of that publication. Sherlock Holmes would have continued investigating the mystery until "all" of the possibilities had been eliminated, and not just the easily researched and obvious ones. The unknown author of the Beale Pamphlet provides you one pivotal clue as to who he is, he even goes a step further and tells you why he has decided to make the subject public. Once you understand all the details and circumstances you'll know who wrote the pamphlet and why. The light will come on and you'll catch yourself exclaiming something on the order of, "Holy Crap! It's all so perfectly clear now!" When you get here you'll know exactly why the pamphlet was produced.

 

[bigscoop]

You can wallow in the mud of your enjoyment all you want to, I still do not believe in what you are researching. The Beale Treasure will be found one day but not down the road you are searching on?

I noticed you ended that statement with a question mark, as rightfully you should have. At least you openly admit that you still have an open mind to the possibility that we may be correct. I have said several times now that YOU are much closer to the truth then you realize, and I still stand by that statement. Fact is, you are probably the one person who could put this to bed fairly quickly if you would just change your thinking a bit, present yourself with a few different possibilities and questions.

 

[ECS]

THE DIARY OF T J BEALE & THE BEALE CIPHER DISK

This is another look at TJB and the cipher disk he designed for the US ARMY,but later sold it to the Mexican army.Also included are excerpts from his diary:
The Diary of Thomas J. Beale
Now a look at a "solved" C1,and photos of Beale's vault:
BEALE CIPHER SOLVED Beale's Vault Found!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

This is another look at TJB and the cipher disk he designed for the US ARMY,but later sold it to the Mexican army.Also included are excerpts from his diary:
The Diary of Thomas J. Beale
Now a look at a "solved" C1,and photos of Beale's vault:
BEALE CIPHER SOLVED Beale's Vault Found!

Read the DISCLAIMER at the END of The Diary of Thomas J. Beale... FAKE! ALSO, that is NOT a "real" pic of the VAULT; NOTHING proven.

 

[ECS]

Read the DISCLAIMER at the END of The Diary of Thomas J. Beale... FAKE! ALSO, that is NOT a "real" pic of the VAULT; NOTHING proved.

That was the point of my post
If the disclaimer was not read,belief would abound that this was legit.

 

[bigscoop]

We can continue to search for Thomas J. Beale but the significance of his name will never be discovered within the context of the current searches. Everyone already knows who he was and when he died. For the time being forget about the adventure and ask yourself what else could be so darn significant about his name?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

We can continue to search for Thomas J. Beale but the significance of his name will never be discovered within the context of the current searches. Everyone already knows who he was and when he died. For the time being forget about the adventure and ask yourself what else could be so darn significant about his name?

HA! YOU tell us...

 

[bigscoop]

HA! YOU tell us...

Remember, you asked.

Thomas Beale Sr. leaves Virginia and he goes to New Orleans. It has been assumed that he left Virginia due to the duel but there is no reason to believe this as duels were perfectly legal during the period. So if he wasn’t escaping the law/prosecution, as many assume, then why did he really go to New Orleans? What was his history prior to going to New Orleans? Who did he marry once he was in New Orleans? When did he go to New Orleans? Reb, you said yourself that New Orleans was largely a French community.

The adventure out west never happened. That portion of the story is only a required fabrication.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Remember, you asked.

Thomas Beale Sr. leaves Virginia and he goes to New Orleans. It has been assumed that he left Virginia due to the duel but there is no reason to believe this as duels were perfectly legal during the period. So if he wasn’t escaping the law/prosecution, as many assume, then why did he really go to New Orleans? What was his history prior to going to New Orleans? Who did he marry once he was in New Orleans? When did he go to New Orleans? Reb, you said yourself that New Orleans was largely a French community.

The adventure out west never happened. That portion of the story is only a required fabrication.

Dunno; YOU tell ME...

 

[ECS]

The adventure out west never happened. That portion of the story is only a required fabrication.

The sources for that story have been cited on this thread.
Another associate of Jean Lafitte,and also of Thomas Jefferson Beale Sr in New Orleans,was the wagonmaster,Gasper Trammel.TRAMMEL's TRACE was a wagon route from Galveston to St Louis.
After Lafitte looted the Spanish ship,SANTA ROSA,of silver bars in 1815,Lafitte employed Trammel to transport the bullion to a St Louis bank.
The six wagon loads of silver departed Galveston in the spring of 1816.Trammel's party encountered the Mexican Army at Hendricks Lake in Harrison County,Texas.To keep Lafitte's silver from the Mexicans,Trammel drove all six wagons into the lake.Trammel and all but two of his party were killed in that fight-the two that survived jumped into the lake and employed reeds to breathe until the Mexican army departed.
Lafitte attempted to recover the silver bars,but to no avail.
One question arises:To what and whose bank was Lafitte shipping the silver to?

 

[ECS]

After the death of Thomas J Beale in New Orleans,1820,his will was contested by several parties.While his wife,Celeste Boucher de Grandpre Beale was awarded all of his New Orleans holdings,his Fincastle,Virginia property was left out of that award.
Chlory Delancy,of Boteourt County ,Virginia,claimed that property was hers by right.WHAT RIGHT? What was her connection to Beale?
Chlory Delancy,was a d'Yancey,a decendant of a French Huguenot family that settled in Bedford County in the early 1700's.
Who recieved Beale's Fincastle property after his death?

 

[bigscoop]

The sources for that story have been cited on this thread.
Another associate of Jean Lafitte,and also of Thomas Jefferson Beale Sr in New Orleans,was the wagonmaster,Gasper Trammel.TRAMMEL's TRACE was a wagon route from Galveston to St Louis.
After Lafitte looted the Spanish ship,SANTA ROSA,of silver bars in 1815,Lafitte employed Trammel to transport the bullion to a St Louis bank.
The six wagon loads of silver departed Galveston in the spring of 1816.Trammel's party encountered the Mexican Army at Hendricks Lake in Harrison County,Texas.To keep Lafitte's silver from the Mexicans,Trammel drove all six wagons into the lake.Trammel and all but two of his party were killed in that fight-the two that survived jumped into the lake and employed reeds to breathe until the Mexican army departed.
Lafitte attempted to recover the silver bars,but to no avail.
One question arises:To what and whose bank was Lafitte shipping the silver to?

I'd be careful of some of the details in this story.

 

[tat2guy]

I've not seen any records of Thomas Beale Sr on New Orleans showing any middle name or initials. And what sources show Trammel taking bullion to a bank in St. Louis? What bank? Who owned the bank?

I have spent a lot of time sifting through Lafitte info and those around him. The questions above I've yet to find. But that's a different story.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I've not seen any records of Thomas Beale Sr on New Orleans showing any middle name or initials. And what sources show Trammel taking bullion to a bank in St. Louis? What bank? Who owned the bank?

I have spent a lot of time sifting through Lafitte info and those around him. The questions above I've yet to find. But that's a different story.

True... NO middle initials; just Thomas, Sr. & Thomas, Jr. (in New Orleans).

 

[bigscoop]

The problem is, and always has been, the lack of a single document that puts a Thomas Beale on any expedition in the west.

 

[bigscoop]

If you will check the old Virginia newspapers you will find several expeditions that were private expeditioons-----the only ones ever listed or any the history books were government backed by the President or Knights Templar. The Long Expedition was paid for by the Expansionist group of Aaron Burr and General James Wilkerson------later tried for treason. But there were several private expeditons------one expedition I read about that left Virginia about the same time as the TJB party was one from Woodstock, Virginia but I could never obtain their names.

I understand. However, we can't put a Thomas Beale with a single party and without being able to do that we can't place him in the west at all. We can only assume.

 

[ECS]

... what sources show Trammel taking bullion to a bank in St. Louis? What bank? Who owned the bank?

I have spent a lot of time sifting through Lafitte info and those around him. The questions above I've yet to find. But that's a different story.

It is alledged that Trammel (AKA-Nicholas Casper Trammel) was directed by Lafitte to transfer the silver to a bank in St Louis to be made into coins.What bank? Is this the Thomas Hart Benton connection?
Another associate of Lafitte and Beale was Jean Neal d'Estrehan who inherited a plantation 12 mi from New Orleans.He was the son of Jean Baptiste 'd Estrehan de Tours who happened to be the French Royal Treasurer of the Louisana Territory.Also,J N d'Estrehan was a member of the ORLEANS TERRITORIAL COUNCIL set up by Thomas Jefferson after the purchase,and recieved the 1804 "JEFFERSON DOCUMENT",signed by both Jefferson and James Madison.
Incidently,Lafitte would use this plantation as a temporary "storage" for some of his gains.