Updated! Is this a turtle? Or am I dreaming?

[desertmoons]

Hey kimmie,
Like rangler said, getting out there early 11am-1pm is worthwhile. Shadow markers are real, and you just don't see them unless you are out there at the right time, unless you have excellent imagination and 3d thinking. Its like a different world when you do get out there the right time. Strange concavities and points of rock suddenly make sense.

What i've noticed is I rarely find a single shadow marker. There are usually others markers nearby but not of the shadow type. That may not be true everywhere though. Starting out i look for those when i think i found a shadow marker because there are a lot of shadows that are natural.

 

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[tesoro dog]

Rangler!!!!

What a great Inspirational Quote from Deuteronomy, perfect for those who seek Him and his Treasures!!! Thanks!! TD

 

[kimmie4476]

The weather here has been pretty crappy lately, threatening rain and snow everyday. I'm just itching to go out there again and get closer to look for confirmations! Alas, the mountains are not the place to be caught in a snow storm. In the meantime, I'm doing research of the area, and have confirmed spanish were in this area along with the Apaches. One book I'm reading tells of the different battles with the Apaches of the area (complete with locations, just have to match them up with current geography) The mining references are indirect, as the book is focused on biography of the Apaches and the Apache wars, but it will say things like, "the Apaches attacked this place killing several citizens and wounding a few others, with the miners desperate for supplies, another train with a 70 man escort was dispatched from this place on May 6th. It was the last supply train to the mines; sometime in late June the diggings were deserted and the public property was transferred to this place" (this battle was later than some of the others I read about, the book starts out saying the Apaches and Spanish were at war for most of the 18th century, until the 1780's when the Royal Crown issued an order called the "Instruccion")

Since the Apaches were all over this range and the Chiricauhas, it's all a matter of deciphering whether a certain battle and it's subsequent spoils took place here or there.

There are many tales of lost treasure here such as the more recent one where a bank robber hid out in an abandoned mine in these mountains. The story goes that he got about 100,000 from the robbery and only a little of it was found on him when he was captured. I do know where his hideout was (anyone know how to find paper money?). My family thinks he mailed it to his family, or buried it and told them where to find it, in other words they don't think its there. By the way, it is a fairly large mine that he was hiding in, but I'm not sure of the age or what they were mining (more research needed).

Anyway, I've got a lot to research on and am hoping the weather holds out to go out there and get closer to the formations next Monday.

The other pictures I posted with the cross however, are a lot closer to home, not in the mountains, and accessible even in bad weather. I plan to metal detect in the area in the evenings. So far, all I've found is an old, unidentifiable bullet (and some black sand we'll have to pan out) but I've barely scraped the surface of this area.

I agree with Rangler in that this may have been a sacred place to the indians as I have never seen a place where almost every single rock has a pictograph on it. There used to be a year round spring here a long time ago (pretty much dried up now), which would give the indians (or Spaniards ) life sustaining water. I will post some closer pics of the writing in the next post. The rocks look pretty dangerous to mess around in, and I'd like to make sure I know what I'm doing before I try to move any

 

[kimmie4476]

here's one close up

 

[kimmie4476]

and another

 

[djui5]

I would disregard those markings. They are not very old

 

[Mr.Jody]

.......is that "thing" photochopped in that pic?The UFO actually?

 

[Old Dog]

Kimmie,

Here are a couple things I saw in your picture
you have a lion, a cross and a set of directions

will look again and see what comes up of interest,
but this is what will matter.

Thom

 

[kimmie4476]

.......is that "thing" photochopped in that pic?The UFO actually?

no, it was probably a bug or bird or something, I had the camera zoomed in pretty far and it was focusing on the mountains, so if something flew by closer, it would probably be blurry like that lol.

 

[kimmie4476]

So, yesterday afternoon, I climbed up to the top of that rock and stuck my face right up to the cross to try and see if it had the rock patina over it. Since I don't know how to tell if the patina is over it or not ( maybe someone could tell me what that would look like, or supply an up close example?) I can only tell you what was lightest and darkest. I figure the lightest (or brightest) will be newer. The initials with 1941 are obviously newer. They are the ones I judged the other writings from. In the upper left corner of the rock is a spiral petroglyph that appears to be the oldest writing.

The arrow pointing up to the "running man" above it appear the same darkness and earlier than the cross.

The cross, the mountains, and the single A by itself on the right hand side all appear to be the same darkness (due to the contours of the rock, they look different in the pictures)

Just above the cross are the initials EBP. They look newer than the cross, but the B is actually carved into the rock, skinnier than the E and P, like someone saw the B and put their initials around it.

The writing under those initials is hard to make out, it looks like a line or a one, then a line with a circle on top, then another line. They are darker than the initials above it.

The eye and the nose of the lion appear natural, I couldn't make out any tool marks on it, but the mouth could have been carved out or knocked out. It you look close, you'll see a break line above where the top of the mouth is, but not one at the bottom or sides of the mouth, which I guess could mean the section of rock was broken out by something other than nature.

As for what we found, there are many small hiding places in these rocks including one that would be large enough for at least two people to get in out of the elements and sit there. Unfortunately it also looks like a perfect spot for a death trap and my instincts said "STAY OUT!", so we just stuck the metal detector in the beginning of the hole, but didn't get any hits. I'd like to get it farther in, but the overhang of rock was right over my head and I was very uncomfortable. (even if it wasn't a death trap, the rocks still look too unstable to climb in and investigate)

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Merry Christmas kimm...did you guys get snow? flagstaff has disappeared under a white blanket.
i'd rather be in bisbee.

those rocks provided a safe place for the apache, there are hidie holes all over the dragoons. what type of view is there from the spot you mentioned? over the valley, or trail?

that granite takes on a nice gold tone when baked in the sun. check out that date, 1941...compare the patina on that date, to the inscriptions you have an interest in.

 

[kimmie4476]

Merry Christmas to you too, no snow yet, supposed to be some tonight though will make for a fun drive to work tomorrow

As for the most recent rock pictures, they aren't in the mountains, but they are near a spring

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

middle march trail?

 

[kimmie4476]

nope, not even close to the mountains, you'd have to have someone show you where they are. Not too many people know about these ones. In fact, my husband, who knows this area like the back of his hand, had never seen them until someone showed him. And we knew about these for a couple of years, but it wasn't until I found this forum that I knew a cross was significant

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

lol, i lived in bisbee and serria vista for a good amount of time...every time i go back i find something new and wonderful...

hey, there used to be an old passenger rail car from around 1880 parked down along the road to rodeo from douglas...any idea what happened to it?