Update on Colombia and the San José

[Smithbrown]

Update on Colombia and the San José https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgn18xl3j7o

 

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[DizzyDigger]

From the article:

"The British wanted to seize the ship and its treasure, but fired a cannonball into the San José’s powder magazines by mistake. The ship blew up and sank within minutes."

There's been some galactic screw up's throughout history, and this one has to make the top five. I can only imagine how the fellow that aimed and fired that cannon felt....

From the article:

"“The treasure of the San José should remain at the bottom of the sea, along with the human remains of the 600 crew members who died there,” he says. “The treasure is part of the archaeological context, and as such has no commercial value. Its value is strictly scientific.”

I believe some would disagree with this...

 

[Physics guy]

From the article:

"The British wanted to seize the ship and its treasure, but fired a cannonball into the San José’s powder magazines by mistake. The ship blew up and sank within minutes."

There's been some galactic screw up's throughout history, and this one has to make the top five. I can only imagine how the fellow that aimed and fired that cannon felt....View attachment 2172803

From the article:

"“The treasure of the San José should remain at the bottom of the sea, along with the human remains of the 600 crew members who died there,” he says. “The treasure is part of the archaeological context, and as such has no commercial value. Its value is strictly scientific.”

I believe some would disagree with this...

Exactly the same thing that happened to the Mercedes:
“A single shot from HMS Amphion, commanded by Samuel Sutton, hit the ship's magazine, causing an explosion that sank the ship.” - Wikipedia.
The San Jose is looking more like the Holy Grail of litigation than the Holy Grail of shipwrecks, the lawyers being the only parties guaranteed to make any money out of this. This is also exactly what happened with the Mercedes. If history were to repeat exactly, Spain would wind up with the treasure, but I think Colombia will keep it.

 

[enrada]

This is another biased article written in favor of Archies. First of all Archies dig up graves and recover human remains on a regular basis. Archies claim in-situ just to create job security so that they can "manage the site". Putting a picture of a deep sea dive in the article just shows how stupid and poorly written the article is. The wreck is beyond diving depth. Also Spain put out a decree to all Captains to burn the ship, sink the ship, or throw all the treasure overboard so that it wouldn't fall into any pirate, privateer or other countries hands. So there is no evidence that says the Caption didn't blow up the ship so the British wouldn't get the treasure. This decree was put out by Spain after Sir Francis Drake plundered the west coast of North and South America in his 1577 to 1580 cruise around the world. Also this material. for this article mostly came from the book San Jose 1708 written by Rahn Phillips which was about 70 pages into the book before it even mentioned the San Jose. Too bad the BBC doesn't have an experienced treasure hunter on retainer to edit articles like this for technical correctness.

 

[Smithbrown]

This is another biased article written in favor of Archies. First of all Archies dig up graves and recover human remains on a regular basis. Archies claim in-situ just to create job security so that they can "manage the site". Putting a picture of a deep sea dive in the article just shows how stupid and poorly written the article is. The wreck is beyond diving depth. Also Spain put out a decree to all Captains to burn the ship, sink the ship, or throw all the treasure overboard so that it wouldn't fall into any pirate, privateer or other countries hands. So there is no evidence that says the Caption didn't blow up the ship so the British wouldn't get the treasure. This decree was put out by Spain after Sir Francis Drake plundered the west coast of North and South America in his 1577 to 1580 cruise around the world. Also this material. for this article mostly came from the book San Jose 1708 written by Rahn Phillips which was about 70 pages into the book before it even mentioned the San Jose. Too bad the BBC doesn't have an experienced treasure hunter on retainer to edit articles like this for technical correctness.

A Treasie Huntie?

 

[Red_desert]

Just like everything else, they get an education, earn a college/university degree, the system guarantees these people will be earning a plush income. The museums will have plenty to show tourists and tourism produces income. You don't need a college education to become a treasure hunter, only a small investment in equipment or investors.

 

[Red_desert]

By the way, does this look like a Colombian emerald? The photo is poor quality, tried to improve it but still looks bad. The person didn't know what stone it could.... others said emerald and I told him if emerald the shape is like a Colombian emerald the Spanish galleons carried on board. It turns out this find is from Colombian.

Click the photo to get a smaller view.

 

[Red_desert]

Tried using sophisticated high tech software analysis.

 

[Crow]

Just like everything else, they get an education, earn a college/university degree, the system guarantees these people will be earning a plush income. The museums will have plenty to show tourists and tourism produces income. You don't need a college education to become a treasure hunter, only a small investment in equipment or investors.

I beg to slightly differ amigos. the vast majority of people have attention span of a pea. People are poor because they believe governments are there to protect their interests?

Most museums are funded by the tax payer. While some income is generated through patronage and donation. It is by enlarge the tax payer foots the bill.

Museums are the play ground for the privileged. Most of the general public who struggles to put food on table each each week could not give crap about shipwrecks or treasure. Museums have thousands of artifacts that the general public never see the light if day. locked away in storage that cost the public purse millions of dollars to store.

Governments do not like private enterprise that are not bribing them or not paying them extortion money in form of permits, taxes fees and levies. Our whole institution works on lobby groups that fund political campaigns. He who donates the most money shall own the government.

It Does not matter where you go in world they all beat the same masquerade drum of acting in the public interest. But in realty governments borrow money using public assets as collateral. So museums and contents that of are of value to be borrowed upon just like any other public owned asset.

That is why we have privatization of public assets. So in truth the claim by archeologists that so called archeological treasure artifacts should be and are not being monetized is a total lie. Artifacts are actually monetized when in government ownership. ( in effect they are on hock with any other public asset to the principle pawn broker the reserve bank.)

So in reality it is all just a greedy cash grab by governments around the world that are technically mafia economies, with the privileged in control desperate to keep themselves in control. Because to be in control is power. To have power means wealth.

So when shipwreck hunting and treasure seeking first started it was just seen as a novelty. but governments around the world started seeing the dollars signs and they all got greedy. Buried treasure and Shipwreck are an asset to controlled.

And so did the lawyers the lieutenants of establishment will milk the cash cow for years. Politicians will milk it for virtue signaling for votes to keep their snouts in trough of public funds regardless of country. It is how the world works, regardless of the country your dealing with.

If you research and find shipwreck my suggestion is to keep all media away from it, and all public attention. As it is nothing but trouble. Attracting nothing but all vultures all feeding off your hard work.

The Central America, Mercedes, San Jose and many other cases of late are ongoing classic examples of this.

To succeed now in 21st in treasure hunting or shipwreck salvage anywhere is world is say nothing and fly under the radar, staying clear of any media, government and lawyers and build up a discrete net work of private dealers and buyers.

Forget social media, books and media. You in get and out and vanish dispersing and reinvesting any proceeds into stocks, shares, and real estate and various other business ventures.

Use transnational borders to your advantage as well creating companies owned by companies and owned by other companies and banking in various off shore tax havens.

Treasure Amigos? There ain't no stinking treasure

Crow

 

[Physics guy]

Odyssey tried the stealth option with the Mercedes: they didn't announce their find until after they had recovered it and warehoused it in the US. At least that’s my recollection of the chronology. Their mistake was thinking it would be safe in the US. They should have warehoused it in Dubai.

Here’s my prediction on the San Jose: Colombia will contract with a marine salvage company to recover the treasure, with lots of archeological oversight. Colombia will put it in a museum, maybe even build a museum for it. They will monetize it without having to sell it by including it in the monetary reserves of the Colombian Central Bank, which will allow them to issue more debt. They might even leave it in situ if they could still monetize it that way.

 

[enrada]

Unfortunately Odyssey set a precedence when they allowed Spain to take the coins back after losing the court case. I sent a letter to Greg and Melinda to take all the coins and dump them back into the ocean where they found them. Let Spain go recover them after you spread them around on the site. Maybe treasure hunters need to hire the Mossad to figure out how to keep the predators away!!!

 

[enrada]

There should be a flood of other countries withdrawing from the UNESCO Law of the Sea after seeing that Spain is trying to pirate the treasure of the San Jose from Colombia and salvage company.

 

[Red_desert]

I would expect other countries to either pull out of UNESCO or find a way around it, maybe like Colombia declare it as archaeologically protected.

 

[Darren in NC]

It baffled me that Odyssey brought the coins to politically correct U.S. Why not not deposit them with the Receiver of Wreck in the UK? By law, any contender would have to definitively prove within one year that the wreck belonged to them - something Spain would not have been able to do.

 

[Darren in NC]

They should have warehoused it in Dubai.

I'm curious. Why Dubai?

 

[Physics guy]

I'm curious. Why Dubai?

It just came to mind since Dubai and the UAE have been described in the financial press as supplanting Switzerland as the place to go for bank secrecy, neutrality, resistance to international pressure, large gold trading market, large free trade zone, etc. Sounded like just the place to move this kind of cargo. But I personally have no actual experience in this arena, so I probably shouldn’t have suggested it.

The UK Receiver of Wreck sounds like it would have been the right place. The UK let Odyssey use Gibraltar as a transshipment point for the Mercedes, and they had contracts with Odyssey for the recovery of the HMS Sussex and the HMS Victory (which didn’t happen) so they were on good terms with Odyssey.

 

[Crow]

It just came to mind since Dubai and the UAE have been described in the financial press as supplanting Switzerland as the place to go for bank secrecy, neutrality, resistance to international pressure, large gold trading market, large free trade zone, etc. Sounded like just the place to move this kind of cargo. But I personally have no actual experience in this arena, so I probably shouldn’t have suggested it.

The UK Receiver of Wreck sounds like it would have been the right place. The UK let Odyssey use Gibraltar as a transshipment point for the Mercedes, and they had contracts with Odyssey for the recovery of the HMS Sussex and the HMS Victory (which didn’t happen) so they were on good terms with Odyssey.

Actually amigo your 100% correct Dubai and the UAE are the convenient places to make things disappear into liquid assets.

In the West we have turned into institutional virtue signaling political correct pussies. There is crap in UAE warehouses next to the airport is beyond your wildest imagination.

To say or to mention what is there is a breech of national security. And the ramifications would implode the world economy. Even the most bitter enemies and cold war rivals do not want to unleash the ramification of whats in there? No government will even admit to its existence. it would be economic suicide.

I know whats there and it is why I will never pay tax ever......

Its the ultimate get out out of jail bargaining chip. And those in know they all know it.

Crow

 

[Physics guy]

Actually amigo your 100% correct Dubai and the UAE are the convenient places to make things disappear into liquid assets.

In the West we have turned into institutional virtue signaling political correct pussies. There is crap in UAE warehouses next to the airport is beyond your wildest imagination.

To say or to mention what is there is a breech of national security. And the ramifications would implode the world economy. Even the most bitter enemies and cold war rivals do not want to unleash the ramification of whats in there? No government will even admit to its existence. it would be economic suicide.

I know whats there and it is why I will never pay tax ever......

Its the ultimate get out out of jail bargaining chip. And those in know they all know it.

Crow

The Dubai cop car in front is a Bugatti Veyron.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Dubai_Police_at_work_(cropped).jpg

 

[Crow]

Hello Physics guy.

I am wealthy.in shares, real estate, banking, gold and various residual income from various ventures. But it is totally utter chicken crap to how much people are worth there'

It is beyond the comprehension of most people. Even I struggle to get my head around it. I had dubious privilege meeting some of these so called upper echelons of society.

One family personal fortune is about 1.5 trillion. they scattered all over middle east many of family members in Dubai and other parts UAE. But there are other wealthy oligarchs there too from all over the world worth billions. They are so rich they can buy countries. Most of them you will never see.

All governments are owned by them in one form another as they pander to their punk ass wants and needs. Odyssey could of sold the entire collection of treasure to them and they would no have blinked an eye.

They have zero regard from any international agreement signed by our own stupid virtue signaling governments in western world. Business is business, regardless of the flag you fly. East west it does not matter.

Most of the illicit gold, diamonds and spoils and even elicit antiquities flow through there. You name it they have they will buy it. like undocumented gold below.

re Cast into the system, by passing any western sanctions.

Getting back to Spain claiming the San Jose. Yeah millions will spent haggling like bunch of greedy pirates over for what should of been an amazing discovery.

My guess being in Colombian territory most will end up in hands of Colombian officials grubby little hands. before long items will flow into the private market when budgets get tight.

Crow

 

[Physics guy]

A depression in the price of escudos or reales in the numismatic markets might be a clue to a disposition of some of the San Jose treasure.