Under the cover of darkness jumpin claim

[flyspekau]

HANGUM HIGH


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/crime/archives/018556.html

 

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[ivan salis]

my talk is not talk -- last year my elderly next door neighbors had a home invasion type robbery attempted on them -- the mamn is a retired insurance agent --many of the poor folks that he sold insurance to still come to his house and pay their "policy" to him in cash at the end of the month -- ir so happenned that the last day of the month was a sunday -- the insurance man likes to do a in person deposit to get a reciept for the cash he puts in the bank --the "crooks" though hey thay old mans gonna have a bunch cash at his place --hes a pushover --we just burst in and wave a gun and the poop his pants and give it up *--- well the old man was sitting in his chair in the living room front door open but with the screen door closed ---enjoying the cool night air coming in thru the screen door when two ski masked young thugs burst in thru the screen door wavng guns --yelling give up the money old man -- his wife was in the bed room and opened the door --the old man dodged inside a put a chair under the door handle -- the wife dialed 911 -then me --- the crooks said open the door and give us the mony or we'll shoot thru the door --they said the cops are on there way and our next door neighbors coming over with his shotgun --he will shoot to kill --I got there quickly but once they said "shotgun gun and shoot to kill" they said they crooks said --OH S..IT and beat feet as fast as possible --the cops came a short bit afterwards -- I walk the walk --not just talk the talk.

 

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[Seamuss]

my talk is not talk -- last year my elderly next door neighbors had a home invasion type robbery attempted on them -- the mamn is a retired insurance agent --many of the poor folks that he sold insurance to still come to his house and pay their "policy" to him in cash at the end of the month -- ir so happenned that the last day of the month was a sunday -- the insurance man likes to do a in person deposit to get a reciept for the cash he puts in the bank --the "crooks" though hey thay old mans gonna have a bunch cash at his place --hes a pushover --we just burst in and wave a gun and the poop his pants and give it up *--- well the old man was sitting in his chair in the living room front door open but with the screen door closed ---enjoying the cool night air coming in thru the screen door when two ski masked young thugs burst in thru the screen door wavng guns --yelling give up the money old man -- his wife was in the bed room and opened the door --the old man dodged inside a put a chair under the door handle -- the wife dialed 911 -then me --- the crooks said open the door and give us the mony or we'll shoot thru the door --they said the cops are on there way and our next door neighbors coming over with his shotgun --he will shoot to kill --I got there quickly but once they said "shotgun gun and shoot to kill" they said they crooks said --OH S..IT and beat feet as fast as possible --the cops came a short bit afterwards -- I walk the walk --not just talk the talk.

I'm not a gun carrier,but I have legitamite ways to deal with claim jumpers. Being a vigallanty isn't one of them. Your story of being down right neighborly does not sound like a claim jumping story to me.

I believe young people reading this forum might get a bad taste in their mouth of what treasure hunters are all about when seeing these type of stories.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

time to sit back with the popcorn.

 

[ivan salis]

seamuss -- I'm so sorry if young folks viewing this site are "offended" that I am willing to do whatever it takes / is need to do -- to help protect my elderly innocent neighbors from a pair of armed thugs *** doing whatever is needed up to and including armed deadly force .

but if their grandpa and grandmas home was being invaded by a couple of armed thugs and their loved ones threated --bet they would wish I lived "next door" to em

needless to say --I'm very very old school -- I worked hard and stayed legal -- I'm not a thief, or dope head and have a very dim veiw of em .

these claim jumpers are theifs plain and simple --

 

[RazorCityDen]

my talk is not talk -- last year my elderly next door neighbors had a home invasion type robbery attempted on them -- the mamn is a retired insurance agent --many of the poor folks that he sold insurance to still come to his house and pay their "policy" to him in cash at the end of the month -- ir so happenned that the last day of the month was a sunday -- the insurance man likes to do a in person deposit to get a reciept for the cash he puts in the bank --the "crooks" though hey thay old mans gonna have a bunch cash at his place --hes a pushover --we just burst in and wave a gun and the poop his pants and give it up *--- well the old man was sitting in his chair in the living room front door open but with the screen door closed ---enjoying the cool night air coming in thru the screen door when two ski masked young thugs burst in thru the screen door wavng guns --yelling give up the money old man -- his wife was in the bed room and opened the door --the old man dodged inside a put a chair under the door handle -- the wife dialed 911 -then me --- the crooks said open the door and give us the mony or we'll shoot thru the door --they said the cops are on there way and our next door neighbors coming over with his shotgun --he will shoot to kill --I got there quickly but once they said "shotgun gun and shoot to kill" they said they crooks said --OH S..IT and beat feet as fast as possible --the cops came a short bit afterwards -- I walk the walk --not just talk the talk.

I'm not sure what this great story of high adventure is intended to illustrate. I got nothing out of it about "claim jumping" and nobody got hung, beat, horse whipped or shot from 1600 yards in a military type ambush. A lot like the lead story though in that there was some dummies and some big talk.

I am a vigorous defender of property rights and this American idea of "public property" and of course the Mining Laws of 1872. I read the lead article and thought the trespassers were indeed in the wrong and idiots to boot.

I can tell you though I've spent a lot of years in the back country, specifically gold country in several states prospecting, mining, gem, fossil and rock hounding for weeks at a time sometimes months. I've seen some really silly "stuff" go down at times between greenies, pot farmers, squatter hippies, survivalist, militia folks and some that just don't fit into easy categories. It's been a hoot and a holler and I wouldn't change anything.

.......but the hills aren't exactly littered with bleached bones and rotting corpses hanging from the tree's and all this talk of killing and violence by folks hanging out on the weekends comes off ridiculous to me.

Take it for whats it worth, just one mans opinion.

 

[Hoser John]

I'VE MINED FOR OVER 50 YEARS!!!! I have eaten outta my dredgebox and put 4 kids through college mining. I built and sold many 100'000's a dredges,drywashers,sluices and detectors for many years. I'VE ALSO HAD--RECENTLY--A GANG OF 5,WITH 3 DREDGES, WHO SHOWED UP ON MY CLAIMS OUTTA SEASON AND SHOWED OFF TO THEIR COHORTZ OVER 4 POUNDS A GOLD!! You are wrong on all accounts bud--John

 

[ivan salis]

the high adventure as you call it was to show you that --some folks take crime and criminals seriously --- theifs are thiefs and I along with most of the good folks that hangout here --hate em -- cuz their too dang lazy to work for thier way and too dumb to stay outta trouble.

 

[kuger]

my talk is not talk -- last year my elderly next door neighbors had a home invasion type robbery attempted on them -- the mamn is a retired insurance agent --many of the poor folks that he sold insurance to still come to his house and pay their "policy" to him in cash at the end of the month -- ir so happenned that the last day of the month was a sunday -- the insurance man likes to do a in person deposit to get a reciept for the cash he puts in the bank --the "crooks" though hey thay old mans gonna have a bunch cash at his place --hes a pushover --we just burst in and wave a gun and the poop his pants and give it up *--- well the old man was sitting in his chair in the living room front door open but with the screen door closed ---enjoying the cool night air coming in thru the screen door when two ski masked young thugs burst in thru the screen door wavng guns --yelling give up the money old man -- his wife was in the bed room and opened the door --the old man dodged inside a put a chair under the door handle -- the wife dialed 911 -then me --- the crooks said open the door and give us the mony or we'll shoot thru the door --they said the cops are on there way and our next door neighbors coming over with his shotgun --he will shoot to kill --I got there quickly but once they said "shotgun gun and shoot to kill" they said they crooks said --OH S..IT and beat feet as fast as possible --the cops came a short bit afterwards -- I walk the walk --not just talk the talk.

I'm not a gun carrier,but I have legitamite ways to deal with claim jumpers. Being a vigallanty isn't one of them. Your story of being down right neighborly does not sound like a claim jumping story to me.

I believe young people reading this forum might get a bad taste in their mouth of what treasure hunters are all about when seeing these type of stories.

I am NOT going to get caught up in this.......but,maybe young people (or anybody)thinking of getting involved should understand what trespassing and claim jumping "MIGHT",bring?

 

[RazorCityDen]

I take it that was addressed to me John

I'm not sure on what accounts I'm wrong on.

Apparently no one got shot, whipped, stabbed or beat because the thieves were showing off to their friends. Apparently they aren't going to either because your chatting about it on the internet pretty much closes the "western justice" window of opportunity. Apparently these folks enjoy some local knowledge in order to pull this off and the tit for tat "western" response could easily go both ways and make it awful tough for you to enjoy carefree family fun in the outdoors.

So we are back to a mineral trespass case and rightly so if it all went down like you suggest, if they took out 4 pounds and were bragging about it, there shouldn't be much problem getting that done. That's a decent amount of coin and worth pursuing.

The original intent of the 1872 mining laws were to encourage the development of a budding nations resources, not tie up mineral development so hobbyist have a place to play a few weekends a year. This argument always comes off like the Second Amendment issues, for some reason folks think the Second Amendment has something to do with sporting pursuits.

I'm grateful we have public lands to roam around on, we are fortunate as hell in that regard and I'm grateful we can still stake a claim and have at it. However, I don't think all the tough guy talk of murder and mayhem does anybody any justice and makes the folks spouting off sound silly.

John, if you got the stomach for that sort of business and the consequences, fine, but it ain't blow-hards on the internet getting it done.

As the lady suggested above there are many degree's of these incidents and many folks that want their claims respected don't have any problem dabbling here and there. That's the main drama with how a system that was intended for a different era is interpreted now.

Take care it's a jungle out there!

 

[RazorCityDen]

the high adventure as you call it was to show you that --some folks take crime and criminals seriously --- theifs are thiefs and I along with most of the good folks that hangout here --hate em -- cuz their too dang lazy to work for thier way and too dumb to stay outta trouble.

I don't think anybody would disagree with you, but no one was summarily executed in the front yard or even horse whipped, hell it sounded like a lot folks running in every direction and I'm glad it turned out fine for the good guys.

Den

 

[ivan salis]

yep I agree crooks in jail where they belong too bad one got away.

personally I think dawn to dusk chain gangs working in 100 degree heat all day long --rented out to folks to do land clearing and other grunt labor work -- would be a good thing (unless ill or unable --you gotta work ---no work --bread and water only diet till you do)

crooks today do not fear jail time -- three hots and a cot in a/c comfort --no hard labor to do -- sit on yer butt get fed and housed , clothed on the tax payor dime .--- rob and steal living the easy life (stealing a few hours a day --sitting on yer butt the rest of the time getting drunk / high -- get caught sit on yer butt in jail doing nothing but sleeping

 

[Seamuss]

Claim jumping is mineral trespassing which is a felony and punishable by serious jail time. I am a strong fighter for the second amendment right to bear arms. I don't carry a gun in the rivers while prospecting and I have never ever had a problem prosecuting claim jumpers while being unarmed. The old west attitude is for the old west.

I have seen people go to jail for pulling their guns out with the old west attitude. And I have seen people rewarded for Using a gun to stop robberies in progress.

I believe we need an old west section on this forum for all that old west gun slinging talk that has over taken the subject of claim jumping and leave the two subjects separate.

I don't carry my guns with me but I enjoy shooting them and I go hunting most every year. I don't brag about gun slinging, but the talk of it here is distracting to the productivity of the real subject of treasure hunting and claim jumping. I'm also a combat medic and see guns misused a lot and teach self protection course for SAFE handling of fire arm.

I want to see how you would handle claim jumping without getting shoot yourself with all that BIG BAD talk that's being used

 

[RazorCityDen]

Claim jumping is mineral trespassing which is a felony and punishable by serious jail time. I am a strong fighter for the second amendment right to bear arms. I don't carry a gun in the rivers while prospecting and I have never ever had a problem prosecuting claim jumpers while being unarmed. The old west attitude is for the old west.

I have seen people go to jail for pulling their guns out with the old west attitude. And I have seen people rewarded for Using a gun to stop robberies in progress.

I believe we need an old west section on this forum for all that old west gun slinging talk that has over taken the subject of claim jumping and leave the to subject separate.

I don't carry my guns with me but I enjoy shooting them and I go hunting most every year. I don't brag about gun slinging, but the talk of it here is distracting to the productivity of the real subject of treasure hunting and claim jumping. I'm also a combat medic and see guns misused a lot and teach self protection course for SAFE handling of fire arm.

I want to see how you would handle claim jumping without getting shoot yourself with all that BID BAD talk that's being used

That's exactly where I'm coming from.

I do carry a concealed handgun (legally), but it stays that way and there's an AR15 carbine mounted in my Jeep or a .30-30 when I'm in Kalifornistan. Not everyone is as good natured as me and I reserve the right to reply in kind if necessary.

Only folks that haven't been part and partial to real violence are so wan-ton about it's application, well stated Seamuss.

Den,

 

[PhipsFolly]

Agreed that anyone knowingly claim jumping is deserving of justice, however the claimholder would be in violation of the law if they were to use "old west" justice to make their point... as far as I know (in any state), you cannot use lethal force to stop someone from trespassing, claim jumping, or committing theft unless the offender(s) demonstrate both the intent and ability to cause bodily harm or death to the "victim". So all this "wild west" talk is nonsense and those that believe that they can just shoot someone for jumping their claim will land the claimholder in the slammer... be prepared to use some of that gold to pay for those legal expenses.

I know emotions run high when we feel we have been wronged in any situation, but being able to exercise good judgement and make wise decisions in these cases is paramount as you will not only change the course of someone else's life, you will change your own as well. I'm not saying that you can't detain the offenders utilizing your "toys", just take a moment to make a wise decision as to whether you would actually be justified in shooting someone for the reasons you mention... if they are threatening you or your loved ones, have at it... if not, think twice before pulling that trigger. Having been in law enforcement both on the East and West Coasts of this country for many years and having been directly involved in critical incidents, I can tell you that you would be held accountable if you shoot someone and it was clear that the offenders did not present a means and an intent to do you bodily harm... now if the bad guys bring "the heat", different scenario altogether. Peace... stop bickering over this and lets all go find some gold!!

 

[Hoser John]

bickering WTF this topic has been dead for over 15 months now

 

[enamel7]

bickering WTF this topic has been dead for over 15 months now

Yeah John, I was trying to figure that one out also.

 

[Goldwasher]

enablers..... ...

 

[jog]

Hey, The bears have to eat to!