Ulloas Trinidad

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

To add to the fray, in the late 1960"s, a surfer caught his toe on a long gold chain that had a Spanish cross hanging on it encrusted with precious stones, while waiting for the perfect wave near Solana beach. Others on this board may know more details of this old story,that was in the newspapers.

The surfer actually broke his toe on it, but there was no chain, and I don't think it was jewel encrusted. Although it WAS a Spanish Cross. It was not at Solana Beach, but as I know a couple of people who are working the site, I won't say exactly where it was (other than to say it was South of Orange County ). There was an Emerald encrusted Gold Cross found about 10 years ago near another beach, but that one is a secret as well.

Best-Mike

 

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[Old Rusty Nails]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

COME ON NOW TOM_IN_CA....I KNOW YOU STILL HAVE A LITTLE NEGATIVITY LEFT IN YOU TO CRUSH THESE GUYS. LET'S HEAR IT

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Ah c'mon rusty-nails, I aint THAT big of a kill-joy, am I ?

A person would have to disect each passage in those old newspaper clippings, to analyze the original sources of the data. To simply say "a skeleton and coins were found 50 yrs. ago in such & such canyon" does not proove that that actually occured. For example: If you could pin down that author, and ask "how do you know? What is your source?", he might say "because I heard it" blah blah. Let me give you an example: Here in my county, there is an author who is also an armchair historian, by the name of Randall Reinstedt. He takes snippets of historical truth, and weaves them into fanciful fiction books. Some are obvious childrens books about "the ghosts of old Monterey", blah blah. But others are more serious, drawing partly from true facts, but then moving into a lot of conjecture on his part, to make for a good story. Most people know he's just an author of fiction (albeit based on fact), and don't treat his books as some sort of authority. However, it never ceases to amaze me when I run into people, who .... when they find out I'm into metal detecting, they often ask me "have you ever searched for the lost cave of such & such", or "did you know that a treasure is under such & such building", etc... Pretty soon, I began to see the common theme that these stories all came from the same couple of books this fellow had written, and PEOPLE WERE BELIEVING IT as fact, even though it is primarily conjecture. You can see how easily the following might occur: Although Randall is still alive and contemporary, allowing for anyone to "put moderation" on the "details" of his stories, I bet that in 50 yrs, someone else might come across these books and actually use them as their SOURCE (for newspaper "facts" like the ones cited above).

And a further example of how the "telephone game" works:

Ghost dog says: "To add to the fray, in the late 1960"s, a surfer caught his toe on a long gold chain that had a Spanish cross hanging on it encrusted with precious stones, while waiting for the perfect wave near Solana beach. Others on this board may know more details of this old story,that was in the newspapers."

Yet Mike quickly corrects him: "The surfer actually broke his toe on it, but there was no chain, and I don't think it was jewel encrusted. Although it WAS a Spanish Cross. It was not at Solana Beach, but as I know a couple of people who are working the site, I won't say exactly where it was (other than to say it was South of Orange..."

You see how quickly a chain is added, and other such things? Things get morphed and embellished over time, to the extent that the original data (if it was even real to begin with), are soon lost.

 

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Tom is absolutely right.

I personally know of three large crosses recovered on SoCal in the last 50 years (even though i am only 45). I won't give the locations as they are ongoing hunts for myself and a couple of old timers.

1. SoCal beach. A gold Spanish Cross (no chain) was wedged in a crack in a rock, and the surfer broke his toe on it. He recovered it, and it made the news with picture.

2. SoCal about 1/2 mile from a beach, an old man walking his dog started finding gold coins along a certain trail. Showed them to the Docent at a local museum, who told him what they were. He bought a metal detector and hit the area pretty hard. He found parts of guns, knives, buttons. All Spanish. His best find was about a 7in X 3in gold cross encrusted with emeralds.

3. In a certain shallow body of water, two men were metal detecting for gold nuggets in about 3-4 feet of water. No nuggets, but the picture in the paper showed the man in chest waders with a metal detector in one hand, and about a six foot chain as fat as your thumb going around his neck, leading to a gold cross about 12in X 7in encrusted with dark stones (B&W Pic, but the newspaper article said emeralds). A few years later, along this same body of water (but on the opposite shore), a lock box about 2ft W X 1ft D X 1.5ft T was found that was filled with gold and silver Spanish Coins.

The stories above are 100% accurate. The only one without pics was #2, but the Museum Docent saw and held the cross.

Enjoy-Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Mike, to you, I would ask the same thing: How do you know those 3 stories are accurate? What is the source of your information? The best I can gather from your text, is that the first one came from a newspaper. Who is the newspaper's source? If the story is even true, who's to say the guy didn't find them somewhere else (hunting in a European country where md'ing isn't allowed, or maybe they were simply stolen, etc...) and he used this as a cool cover story to "wash" them?

As for the second two of your stories, what is the source? When you find it, dig deep and ask yourself "what is THAT author's source?" ie.: "just someone who told someone, who heard that it was reported, that.... " etc....?

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

hey gang,
One thing you're all forgetting the 2 article's I posted are from " real " newspapers. One says that it was real ( based on Markey's own facts ) and the other says it's not true. Even they couldn't agree. The article I read a couple of years ago that started me down this path stated that Markey hired 3 researchers in Madrid to find the truth. He was granted " special permission " ( actually the researchers were ) to look at some seldom seen papers and it was there that he found the writings of Ulloa's scribe. According to this scribe all the men died of scruvy except said scribe and one locale. He then sailed S 2000 miles in a row boat ( this is where is loss faith in it ) and made it back to Spanish held Mexico, where he told everyone one what happened. But... according to Bernal Diaz del Castillo Ulloa had died at the end of a sword from one of his own people. He may have been trying to simply keep his paperwork clean. Here's a note from the San Diego Historical society :
Rounding Cape San Lucas Ulloa took his little fleet of two up the west coast of Baja California and at least got as far north as the Cedros Islands, or the Islands of the Cedars, a little better than half way up the peninsula. Whether he actually went farther has been in dispute. As his log has never been found, we have only the final statement in his narrative, dated April 5, 1540, at Cedros Island, written as a letter to Cortes.


"I have determined, with the ship Trinidad and the few supplies and men to go on, if God grant me weather, as far as I can, and the wind will permit, and send this ship (the Santa Agueda) and these men to New Spain with this report. God grant the outcome be such as your lordship desires, whom may it please to advance your illustrious lordship in person and estate through a long period. I kiss your lordship's illustrious hand. Francisco de Ulloa."
This dramatic statement has led some historians to conclude that Ulloa sailed on, as did the Ancient Mariner, and meeting disaster was cast up and died on some shore of the Southern California coast. What actually did happen to him presents some mystery, though. None of the old Spanish records have any reference to his being lost, and these include statements from those who sailed with him.

According to Bernal Diaz del Castillo, the historian of the conquest of Mexico, Ulloa returned to the port of Jalisco, and a few days afterward, while he was ashore resting, one of the soldiers on his flagship waylaid and killed him with a sword. However, in 1543, in answering a legal interrogation in Spain as to the whereabouts of the daughter of one of his former pilots, Cortes replied that Ulloa had carried her off and could give the information better than he, thus indicating that he, Cortes, believed Ulloa was alive at the time.
Early Spanish maps indicate that explorations were made at least 100 miles beyond the Cedros Islands, before the time of Juan Rodriguez Cabrillo; therefore it is reasonable to suppose that the information must have been supplied to cartographers by Ulloa upon his return to Mexico. ( ? )



Did Markey REALLY find anything? I saw a foto of him and about 5 skulls side by side with his chin on the top of the center one, but is that proof ? I don't know... If there has been artifacts found on the beaches over the years, I would " assume " that something is out there. But is it the Trinidad ?? Only Gollum " may " have a answer to that. However my bet is we won't ever know, and that's how it should be. A GOOD Th'r would not tell a soul... He would just sit back and watch us scramble...

For what it's worth my 4 cents.

PLL

 

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Mike, to you, I would ask the same thing: How do you know those 3 stories are accurate? What is the source of your information? The best I can gather from your text, is that the first one came from a newspaper. Who is the newspaper's source? If the story is even true, who's to say the guy didn't find them somewhere else (hunting in a European country where md'ing isn't allowed, or maybe they were simply stolen, etc...) and he used this as a cool cover story to "wash" them?

As for the second two of your stories, what is the source? When you find it, dig deep and ask yourself "what is THAT author's source?" ie.: "just someone who told someone, who heard that it was reported, that.... " etc....?

Tom,

Did you read my post?

Sources:

1. Newspaper article with picture (early 1960s)

2. Museum Docent who saw and handled the cross (only a few years ago). The Docent knows the man who found it and was also shown all the coins and other trinkets he found.

3. Newspaper article with picture (late 1960s)

..............and just tonight, I was shown a picture of a rough cast cross found in the eighties in an Eastern California gold mining area. Found in a stash hole in an adobe wall, and weighed about five pounds.

As far as knowing for 100% certainty about stories #1 and #3, I can only go by the PICTURES and what was stated in the article. They are both from the 1960s, and I highly doubt there were any extant laws regarding Metal Detecting in Europe. So please, keep being hypercritical of everything. It is funny to me, and will possibly keep others away. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I personally know more than a couple of people who will never have to work another day in their lives thanks to the generosity of some long lost Spanish (and one Mexican) people (person).

Best-Mike

 

[1ripper1]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

This has been a fantastic thread...you guys and gals all know your stuff and I am amazed by all the bits and pieces that everyone can toss in. Your all here...dreamers and skeptics...now, how do we find out what Markey did or didn't find? I don't want to go all "black helicopter" on this but it seems to me the lack of information on something of this historical significance in defening. It would cost a lot of money to change the "Cabrillo National Monument" in San Diego to the "Ulloa National Monument" hmmmm? Those skulls and the gold have to be somewhere...(probably next the the Arc of the Covenant in that big military warehouse...ha ha ha!!!) and someone knows. Why aren't they saying. I would hate to see a good TH fouled up by a governmental info blackout for historical status quo.

1ripper1

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

OK, I can no longer resist telling this one: Nearly 20 years ago, I was taking a Marine Arch. class in Long Beach. The instructor said he had a special guest, a 'treasure hunter', who would talk to us after class. Sure enough, after class a guy with a safari outfit ('Aussie' hat and all) came into the room wearing silver coins on chains around his neck, a "George Hamilton' tan--and a story. (No, it wasn't Mel.)

He related that he had found Ulloa's Trinidad!! He had accomplished this feat by (somehow) finding "X" marks the spot on the Oceanside beach and drilling down (auger?) to collect a sample of the ship's timber. He had this sample analyzed and 'confirmed' to be of the age of the Trinidad. And now he was only three feet from seeing the hull of the 'Trinidad'!! His pitch was that he needed money to expose the vessel that would, in turn, attract more capital; and he was in this classroom talking to us and soliciting funds since, he assumed, we all would be interested in unearthing such an historic find and glad to be 'first investors'.

He made no mention of why he didn't shovel down the three feet to expose the vessel for closer examination. Nor do I recall he saying anything about having permits to do this work--nor any agreement on the rewards one or more of us would receive by making an investment--if the venture were successful.

The point I wish to make is that no matter whether it's second hand knowledge or even first (as in this case), you may want to reserve judgment (and your cash) until you have seen or experienced it for yourself. (Adopt a 'Doubting Thomas' attitude.) Invest your money in your own research, then invest in the project, if it's warranted.
Don.....

 

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

I agree 100%. Always be a Doubting Thomas. More important than that, though, is knowing well known history. I made this point to an aspiring TH'er in a PM just the other day. There are some historical facts that are beyond reproach. They have been verified through several sources, and can be taken as gospel. If you know THOSE facts, you can more easily weed through much of the BS. While the absence of information on Ulloa's Trip may be deafening, there are other aspects of the story which can be verified (as I have stated previously as my problems with the story as told):

1. The greatest majority of the gold Cortez had seen in Tenochtitlan in 1519 was gone in 1521 when he sacked the city (that's why he spent six weeks torturing Aztecs trying to find out where it went). So.......knowing this, how could Cortez have sent $5-10 million worth of gold with Ulloa for safekeeping?

2. If you believe the version that had Cortez sending that much gold along with Ulloa for expedition expenses, you should ask yourself a question: Where would Ulloa be able to spend that gold? There were no missions, pueblos, towns, or cities along the California Coast in the 1500s.

I believe the Markey Story, but I have big trouble with the amount of gold involved in it.

Now, do I believe the Spanish, Pirates, and privateers constantly used anchorages around Oceanside and San Onofre to stage inland expeditions? Yes. Do I think it entirely possible that some of those ships ran aground and sank right off the beach? Sure, just look at the number of wrecks just South of Dana Harbor (Doheny Beach). Think storms might have blown some of them aground back then? Sure, it's possible.

One thing I have found for certain......there are tons of valuable things (and information) that have never made it into any history books. I've seen professional geological reports that unequivocally state there are no large gold deposits in the Superstition Mountains of Arizona, but I know for a fact that in the early 1990s, the trunk of a certain person's Mercedes was full of some of the richest gold ore ever seen, and I'll give you one guess where it came from? The Superstition Mountain in Arizona.

Best-Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Mike, No, I don't deny that people have found treasures. I don't doubt that some legends have a kernal of truth in them. Some may be entirely true, from beginning to end, just waiting to be found But I also don't doubt that a LOT of legends are just embellished superstition. I have seen first-hand how willingly the mind adds on details to relatively recent occurances, to end up in "absolute factual treasure was found on such & such beach" or such & such demolition site. Yes, these "for sure facts" can also be found in a "newspaper". Since when has the newspaper been the source of absolute fact? Where do you think the author of a story gets his information from? He gets it from whoever he's talking to! Read carefully next time you read such a newspaper story, for key phrases like "it has been reported that...." etc... Each sentence you read, ask yourself what other scenarios could be.

For example: you read a SOURCE document from law enforcement logs of the 1880s, that a posse caught up with a robber, and hung him on the spot, but that no loot was found. Now, on the one hand, you here now, reading this 2008 newspaper account of that robbery, might say "it's in the newspaper, therefore it's beyond all dispute". But ask yourself, where did the NEWSPAPER get their info, and how accurate was it? That information TOO is subject to the opinion, memory, brain filters, and ... let's face it ... honesty of the person giving the information. For example, that guy who reported to his law enforcement superiors "loot is unaccounted for", might have just pocketed it for himself and his posse buddies. Or the robbery was a staged inside job from the start (an insurance fraud), blah blah Any number of things can make for 100% certain that no cache is ever waiting to be found in whatever canyon they trapped the robber in. But it doesn't matter. The modern TH'r reading the story is 100% convinced the treasure is just waiting to be found. Why? because it was in the newspaper! doh

Looking one by one at your points:

1. Newspaper article with picture (early 1960s) Ask yourself, what is that author's source, and what other explanations might their be? For example, in Don's story, there are a lot of people who might see this speaker's story as absolute proof of a treasure (afterall, the guy wore a safari hat and talked big! woohoo!) And they might "report to the newspaperor a museum docent about this for-sure proof. But Don sees it in another way, that some might consider kill-joy-ish. Ie.: that he was a dreamer tying together tidbits that don't necessarily proove anything

2. Museum Docent who saw and handled the cross (only a few years ago). The Docent knows the man who found it and was also shown all the coins and other trinkets he found. I too am a museum docent at 2 different museums. I too have had well-meaning people come in, and .... when they find out I'm into metal detecting, spin tales of treasures and such, that I recognize as something that has an entirely different explanation. I've even had Mexican's approach me with silver coins from the 1800s that they try to tell me is just the tip of an iceberg where "many more are", if ONLY someone would come with them to Mexico to look for the rest! When you press them (and I mean PRESS them, not letting them evade the points) in a kill-joy fashion, you soon learn that their coins, that they had previously claimed to have found in a cave or dirt floor of some ruins, or whatever, are actually just what their cousin Jaun gave them, and the story that Jaun had given them about the coins, while paying his bar-bet debt, blah blah. But not to worry! Jaun is reputable!

3. Newspaper article with picture (late 1960s) Ditto from #1

 

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Hey Tom,

Once again with some hypercriticality (hy-per-cri-ti-cal-i-tee sic. if that's not a word, it should be :P ).

I guess you would have to read the actual newspaper clippings. It looks like you keep missing the part about the pictures, but, in none of the articles did ANYBODY ever claim to have found the tip of an iceberg. One guy just broke his big toe on a gold cross that was wedged in a cracked rock (#1). One guy just found a gold cross while water detecting for placer gold nuggets (#3).

...and how in the world do you get where you arrived at for #2? So, you think it possible that someone payed off a bar debt to the man with an emerald encrusted gold cross? Gold and Silver coins? Parts of uniforms and weapons? Tom, your rationalizations are more farfetched than the actual stories themselves. The man who found the items, the Docent, and the three or four others who know the story and location, all agree that it was probably a wagon spill.

Tom, I remember you had a very bad experience in Mexico. It has jaded you to the point where you are so critical of everything, and you overanalyze and overrationalize stories to such an extent, that I highly doubt you will ever find enough merit in any story to actually go look for anything. I don't want to bag on you too hard (even though I am having a little fun at your expense, sorry), but I bet that if somebody showed you a gold bar, and said "Hey grab your detector and come with me." You'd probably tell them something like "How do I know you didn't just buy some scrap jewelry and make that bar in your back yard?"

Best-Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Mike, point well taken. I guess it's all a question of each person's threshold of caution. Ie.: at what point is a person simply gullible, verses anylitical? At what point does caution and realizm cross the line to hypercriticalism? Or at what point does "open-mindedness" end up where you become one of those conspiracy buffs, pulling treasure maps out of dime-store novels, convinced they could possibly be true? (afterall, you NEVER KNOW, right? haha)

Returning to look at this point of yours:

2. SoCal about 1/2 mile from a beach, an old man walking his dog started finding gold coins along a certain trail. Showed them to the Docent at a local museum, who told him what they were. He bought a metal detector and hit the area pretty hard. He found parts of guns, knives, buttons. All Spanish. His best find was about a 7in X 3in gold cross encrusted with emeralds.

a) I'm assuming you don't know, nor have ever met, this "old man", right? Have you seen the coins, or just read somewhere that "an old man found them"? b) Can the coins be viewed anywhere? Or persons interviewed who saw them (not persons who, in turn, heard about them, from someone else, who in turn, heard about them, etc..) In other words, are you/we just relying on this story you read, or can the facts be checked out anywhere, down to either the actual coins, or firsthand witnesses? c) Have you met the docent? who's account of these 2 fellows meeting together that fateful day in the museum, are you relying on? I mean, where did this encounter story originate from? As in, who later wrote about this fateful encoutner? Is the docent's identity known, so that someone could talk to the fellow about the facts of this? d) Where is the rest of the loot the guy supposedly found now? Where's the guy now? Is there any way to know that he wasn't a dreamer showing stuff he got from elsewhere?

This may come as a surprise, but there are actually odd things that people do. I was president of an md'ing club for many years, and saw some odd behavior in people, when it came to "treasure", and metal detecting related issues. For example: We used to have a "find of the month" contest. There was a particular odd fellow who ... month after month looked with envy at others cool finds up there on the table. Rings, old coins, etc.. All this poor beginner could muster up was recent clad But eventually, he began to show up at the meetings with his own goodies. At first, a gold ring or two. Then eventually, 8 or 10 gold rings, earings, necklaces, etc... at each month's show & tell. He began to get the respect of veteran hunters, who plied him for information on where he was hunting, how he was doing so good on jewelry, etc... He RELISHED the attention of swinging with the big boys, and the attention of his turn up to the podium to talk about his recent finds. The one month, he comes in with a gold coin! Wrapped in a plastic sealed packaging, like you might find in coin store display type container, complete with type-written date, ID, grade, etc.... Everyone was impressed! Wow, his first gold coin!

But get this! Eventually, word leaked out: The fellow wasn't actually finding all these cools things. Instead, what he was doing, was loading up on clad from sandboxes, shallow turf stuff, etc... Once he'd get $100 to $200 worth of clad, he'd go down to the smelt/coin/buy-sell place, and buy random gold rings, and ... yes .... even a gold coin eventually. Then he'd report that he "found" them. People in our club got real p*ssed at him for this and began to shun him. But I still remember his logic: "Hey, I DID *find* them, because I *found* the clad, that added up, to enable me to buy them, therefore it's legit to say they were "found". Get it?

The only reason I bring up this story, is to show that "people walking into a museum or newspaper reporter" with "treasure" may (just may) have some different story behind it. I know it's strange, and I know when your trusted Uncle Bob tells you about a treasure, or your trusted newspaper, you may think there's just no possible other explanation, but believe me, the human psyche gets a little too trusting at times, because it wants to believe so bad, about treasure. I think all of us have this in our blood, to one degree or another, to not want to ask the tough questions, and instead, give the story-teller the benefit of the doubt, because we too want to be in on that "winning side" at times

 

[gollum]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Tom,

I think the first part of your post hit the nail right on the head! A question of an individual's "threshold of gullibility" or "threshold of criticality" (depending upon whom you want to bag on). I think we have coined a new phrase for TNet. Many things factor into such a threshold: free time, income, how innately analytical are you, how much of a daydreamer are you, knowledge of history, left brainer, right brainer, etc, etc, etc.

Where as I may have certain information that you don't, that will allow me to be more or less critical of a story you may tell, and likewise, if you know something for a fact, and my story says something different...........

Now, to the second part of your post................would you please reread my previous posts, as your question has been answered before you asked it the first time. Firstly, I NEVER said "1/2 mile from a beach." AND ONCE AGAIN......"I have spoken with the Docent to whom the man showed the cross, coins, and other artifacts. In other words, the Docent with whom I've spoken, actually handled all the items in question, and third times a charm; The person who found the cross, coins, and other artifacts showed them to a museum docent with whom I have spoken directly face to face, in person."

There are at least a few people here on TNet who do the exact same thing as the old man in your Old Club, but somehow, I highly doubt that somebody would have the wherewithall to purchase an exceedingly rare, large, and jewel encrusted Spanish Cross just to impress a museum docent. This story has never been in print ANYWHERE, and is currently being hunted by a few people I know (which is why I won't give the location). Your view is like one I encountered regarding a cache of gold bullion found in the Tumacacori Mountain in Arizona in 1986. I know the man who found the gold (along with his brother and two partners). I don't have the name of the article in front of me, but it is a three piece article during 1986 in TREASURE Magazine. On three separate trips, the man found about 135 pounds of small gold bars, all marked with the Jesuit Cross and "V". I had one person actually tell me that it was their idea that the man bought the gold in question and made it into the Jesuit Bars. I don't know how fluid you are, but I couldn't (and I KNOW Ron couldn't) have fronted the approximately $1 million to perpetrate this fraud. See, sometimes in wanting to play the devil's advocate, you reach a little too far in the opposite direction, and those thin little twigs you hang yourself out on, are almost as thin as the ones that people who believe ANYTHING are hanging on.

I know a LOT of history. I like to think if myself as being a pretty good judge of character, and pretty good at taking what I do know, and applying that to various stories I hear.

I know several stories that have never been in any books, magazines, or on any websites.

Best-Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Mark, ok, I thought that in your 3 points way up in this thread, that you were referring to a 3rd party occurance. I guess I missed that you yourself talked to this docent first-hand. I thought you were quoting someone elses citation of this museum/docent incident. Sorry 'bout that!

Oh well, this has been an interesting thread. Nice to get moderating influences back and forth on an issue, to see "both sides" Maybe the truth lies between the two

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Hey gang,
I would like to point out something that Gollum has stated repeatedly in his posts and that is history and th'ing MUST go together. This is a extremely important point. If you just read treasure books, magazines etc., you are only getting a part of the story. I personally will read a story and then see if it is backed up by history. Then and only then do I look deeper into the story. Maybe the only way we can " prove " this is go out to the beach and walk side by side with our metal detectors and see what happens... Wait... that's not proof either !!!! Anyway, I just wanted to thank Gollum for pointing out what I feel is something that is glaringly obvious. And by the way, Markey supposedly found 2000 coins worth $ 500k in 1957. That's about $ 250 a coin.... and that is possible... I think

Enjoy
PLL

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Peg:
You bring up a good point that history goes along with TH--ing. My peeve is to read TH-ers only wanting to know the monetary value of their finds (or where is the best place to sell the artifact) and not seek out the additional rewards that are associated, especially the educational value: learning and sharing the history and historical value of the object.

A second point your raised I'd disagree with you. If the premise is that Markey found Ulloa's 'treasure', those coins would most likely have been small denomination silver or copper coins (I mentioned this in a previous post on this thread), and those silver or copper coins would probably NOT average a sales receipt of $250 each; at least in the absence of some incredible hype advertising.
Don........

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

hey gang,
Mackaydon- Thankx, but I was simply pointing out what Gollum has said. As for what coins Ulloa had and how much were they worth in 1957. I don't really know.. I just remember reading that he found " about 2000 coins " and that the " estimated " value was $500K. He may have found more coins... who knows...and you're right, maybe the story was cooked up to inflate the price of the coins. I did find it interesting that one of the newspapers that I qouted said that Markey never " provided any additional " proof ". It seems only finding the remains of " the " ship is the only " proof ". Maybe I should take a little road trip next week....

PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

hey all,
I'm down in Borrego Springs and last night I was having dinner at Carlee's when I met this couple from Vista. The lady's ggggrandfather used to own a gravel company on the San luis river. She siad the her ggrandfather said the the ship is E of the bridge on the southside. Apparently he accidently dug up some relics when he had his company there in the 1800's... just a FYI

PLL

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Ulloa's Trinidad

Pegleg:
Thanks, that info helps--by eliminating 3 of the 4 quandrants to search.
Don.........