UAW strike

[pepperj]

If you add it all up, 40% pay raise, 32 hours for 40 hours pay, and increasing the pension, they're asking for over a 60% increase! This would bankrupt the car companies and drive prices through the roof.

I wouldn't blame the auto companies if they moved their factories to Mexico, it will also speed up the total automation of the auto factory assembly line too.

Just maybe that's the end game-have a thought about it for a minute.
Not entirely bananas thinking, just bankrupt the rest and it probably would fit right into the general plan.
The union has the man on their side in these negotiations.

So the union gets this huge increase-the big 3 go tits up-can anyone else smell a bailout....

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[fishstick]

The thing most don't think of is this. We (floor workers) are the ones that make the stuff we should get more but there is more than just making the stuff. The buying of things to make said stuff as well as the selling of said stuff. LOTS of moving parts so to speak.

 

[fishstick]

Spot on Pep!!! Funny how the (big man) is up there saying they deserve it all but out of the other side of his mouth he's trying to kill the industry!!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Just maybe that's the end game-have a thought about it for a minute.
Not entirely bananas thinking, just bankrupt the rest and it probably would fit right into the general plan.
The union has the man on their side in these negotiations.

So the union gets this huge increase-the big 3 go tits up-can anyone else smell a bailout....

I see a much bigger chance of more robots to replace the workers and moving plants to Mexico for much lower wages.

You can strike and protest yourself right out of a job when you make outrageous wage demands.

 

[Mackaydon]

Tesla, a non-union shop, stands to gain if the automakers, the UAW or both emerge wounded from the contract talks.

An interesting read: https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/tesla-uaw-gm-ford-stellantis-contract-talks
Don in SoCal.

 

[Whynotnow?]

The villain isn't the corporation. The average UAW wage is $18-$32 an hour, depending on seniority.

"If they can’t pay what the workers ask for while remaining a profitable business that’s on them."
Since when do employees set what their wages will be?

"It’s capitalism in its most pure form"

Capitalism
noun

1. an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
   "an era of free-market capitalism"

"Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit." https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2015/06/basics.htm#:~:text=Capitalism is often thought of,motive to make a profit.

UAW is going to force auto corporations to install more robots on the assembly line, and move more work to Mexico.

What UAW is asking for will dramatically raise the price of autos as well as auto parts for repairs.

I'm a former union worker drawing union pension and the UAW has lost their minds.

So at the top end of that it’s about 65k a year for someone with seniority? It’s 2023, if a person has given their life to a career they deserve to be making significantly more than 65k a year. That’s a joke. Those wages would be ok for 1990 maybe, but we live in a world where a low end starter home is 300k, and a new car is at least 40k. There’s something wrong when the people at the top are increasing their wealth by millions, if not billions, every year while wages for the people at the bottom stay the same. Car prices have skyrocketed, profits have skyrocketed, wages are unchanged. Something seems askew to me. Even if the UAW loses completely here, and their jobs get automated and/or moved out of the country, car prices are still going to keep going up. If the UAW wins, car prices are still going to go up. With both outcomes these corporations will blame the workers for the increase and keep pocketing all of the extra profit. I just can’t understand ever siding with a corporation on this stuff, it doesn’t benefit you in any way. No matter what, you pay more and wealth inequality increases. Ford isn’t gonna give you a discount if you stick up for them.

 

[pepperj]

I see a much bigger chance of more robots to replace the workers and moving plants to Mexico for much lower wages.

You can strike and protest yourself right out of a job when you make outrageous wage demands.

I was in the union while working on the railroad in the 70's.
They had a present back then, helped the working stiff.
The present day unions are a strong, but also dangerous.
Car/van plants, auto supply plants are numerous in Ontario.
GM van plant closed in Scarborough Ontario.
The workers had a full sized container installed and equipped with comforts.
1 worked, 2 sat and enjoyed the perks, then they rotated.
No wonder it closed.
Automation was an easy answer to this mindset.

Here is history, and it will repeat this one again.

"The hourly-rated workers were represented by their union, Unifor Local 222. In August 2017, it was rated highly by its employees in The Best Places to Work in Canada rankings by Indeed, garnering 4th spot overall, and 1st for wages and benefits.

On November 26, 2018, GM announced that production of new cars at Oshawa would wind down in 2019 and cease by the end of the year. The closure would affect 2,500 union workers and 300 management."

 

[pepperj]

Under Unifor's 2020 collective agreements with GM, Ford Motor Co. of Canada and Stellantis, new staff start at $24.26 per hour, 65 per cent of the top-end hourly wage of $37.33, which takes eight years to reach.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

So at the top end of that it’s about 65k a year for someone with seniority? It’s 2023, if a person has given their life to a career they deserve to be making significantly more than 65k a year. That’s a joke. Those wages would be ok for 1990 maybe, but we live in a world where a low end starter home is 300k, and a new car is at least 40k. There’s something wrong when the people at the top are increasing their wealth by millions, if not billions, every year while wages for the people at the bottom stay the same. Car prices have skyrocketed, profits have skyrocketed, wages are unchanged. Something seems askew to me. Even if the UAW loses completely here, and their jobs get automated and/or moved out of the country, car prices are still going to keep going up. If the UAW wins, car prices are still going to go up. With both outcomes these corporations will blame the workers for the increase and keep pocketing all of the extra profit. I just can’t understand ever siding with a corporation on this stuff, it doesn’t benefit you in any way. No matter what, you pay more and wealth inequality increases. Ford isn’t gonna give you a discount if you stick up for them.

Raising their wages over 50% doesn't benefit me in any way, shape, or form, but it directly affects me as it will increase the prices of anything auto-related.

• The average starter home cost $243,000 in June, sending the income needed to afford it to $64,500 annually.

That is a medium price, meaning half costs more, half costs less, and people need to do what we did and our parents did, save money for a down payment so they can afford a home, and not try to buy more than they can afford..

There are plenty of cars in the $20,000 dollar range too, no one says you have to buy a 40K car.

1. Here are some of the best new cars under $30,000 according to Carsforsale.com 1:
   1. 2024 Mazda 3 Hatch: This car is priced at $25,000 and is known for its sporty handling and upscale interior.
   2. 2023 Honda Accord: The base model of this car is priced at $25,965 and is known for its spacious cabin and fuel efficiency.
   3. 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid: This car is priced at $28,755 and is known for its comfortable ride and fuel efficiency.
   4. 2024 Subaru Outback: The base model of this car is priced at $27,845 and is known for its standard all-wheel drive and spacious interior.
   5. 2023 Toyota Tacoma: This truck is priced at $27,000 and is known for its off-road capability and reliability.
   6. 2023 Ford Maverick: This truck is priced at $19,995 and is known for its fuel efficiency and versatility.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The income needed for a family of four to live well, own a house, two cars, and take vacations can vary greatly depending on several factors such as location, lifestyle choices, and personal financial goals. It is difficult to provide a precise figure as it can differ significantly based on individual circumstances. However, we can provide a general estimation based on average costs.

1. Basic living expenses: This includes housing, food, utilities, transportation, healthcare, and other essential expenses. The cost can vary depending on the region, but on average, it is reasonable to estimate this at around $50,000 to $80,000 per year.
2. Housing: The cost of a house can vary significantly based on location and size. If we assume a moderate-sized house in an average cost-of-living area, a mortgage payment of around $1,500 to $2,500 per month can be considered. This amounts to $18,000 to $30,000 per year.
3. Cars: Owning two cars adds additional costs for purchase, insurance, maintenance, and fuel. On average, these expenses can come to approximately $8,000 to $12,000 per year per car. Hence, a rough estimate for owning two cars would be $16,000 to $24,000 per year.
4. Vacations: Vacation costs vary significantly depending on the destination, duration, and activities. Assuming a moderate family vacation budget, setting aside around $5,000 to $10,000 per year for vacations can be reasonable.

Considering the above estimates, a family of four would require an annual income ranging from $89,000 to $144,000 to cover these expenses and maintain a comfortable lifestyle.

 

[Clay Diggins]

There are alternatives.

The cost of living in Oregon while incarcerated for a felony varies depending on several factors, including the specific facility, length of sentence, and individual circumstances of the person incarcerated. However, it is important to note that individuals who are incarcerated in Oregon typically do not bear the direct cost of living expenses while in prison.

In Oregon, incarcerated individuals are provided with basic necessities such as food, clothing, and shelter at no additional cost. Healthcare services, including medical, dental, and mental health care, are also covered by the Oregon Department of Corrections. However, any additional expenses such as personal items, phone calls, or any fees for programs or services provided by the prison system may require payment.

It is worth mentioning that the cost of incarceration itself is borne by the state, which includes expenses related to staffing, maintenance of facilities, and other operational costs. The exact cost per inmate can vary widely depending on various factors, but as an example, the average cost per inmate per year in Oregon was approximately $43,730 in 2020, according to the Vera Institute of Justice.

It is important to consult official sources or reach out to the Oregon Department of Corrections for more specific and up-to-date information regarding the cost of living while incarcerated for a felony in Oregon.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The cost of incarcerating an individual in New York can vary depending on various factors. However, here are some approximate figures:

1. State Prisons: According to the New York State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision, the average annual cost per inmate was approximately $69,355 in 2020.
2. Local County Jails: The cost of incarcerating an individual in a local county jail can vary significantly. It can range from around $100 to $300 per day, depending on the county and the specific services provided.

Please note that these figures are approximate and can vary over time due to changes in policies, inflation, and other factors. Also, these costs do not include expenses related to court proceedings, legal representation, or other associated costs.

 

[Clay Diggins]

You might consider less expensive accommodations.

The cost of living in a trailer in Florida can vary depending on various factors such as location, size of the trailer, amenities, and the specific trailer park or community. On average, monthly rent for a trailer in Florida can range from around $300 to $1,000 or more. Additionally, there can be additional costs such as utility bills, maintenance fees, and insurance.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The industry that typically pays the highest wages varies depending on multiple factors such as location, job position, education level, and experience. However, some industries that generally offer higher-paying jobs include:

1. Financial Services: This industry includes investment banking, private equity, asset management, and hedge funds. These jobs often pay high salaries and bonuses due to the nature of the work and the level of financial expertise required.
2. Technology: The technology industry, particularly in areas such as software development, data science, and artificial intelligence, tends to provide high-paying jobs. Companies in Silicon Valley, for example, are known for offering competitive salaries and extensive perks.
3. Healthcare: Certain healthcare professions, such as surgeons, anesthesiologists, and specialized medical practitioners, often command high wages due to the level of skill and education required.
4. Legal Services: Lawyers, especially those in prestigious law firms or specialized areas like corporate law or intellectual property, often receive high salaries.
5. Engineering: Various branches of engineering, such as petroleum, chemical, or aerospace engineering, often offer high-paying employment opportunities, thanks to the technical skills and knowledge required.
6. Management Consulting: Management consultants, particularly those working in top-tier firms, can earn high salaries due to the strategic advice and problem-solving skills they provide to businesses.

It's important to note that individual salaries within these industries can still vary significantly based on factors like experience, geographic location, and company size.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Or you could just cut your expenses and strike for a living.

The United Auto Workers (UAW) does not directly pay striking workers; instead, it provides strike benefits to its members during a strike. The amount paid to striking workers varies based on factors such as the length of the strike, the worker's employment status, and their years of UAW membership. Typically, striking workers receive a fraction of their regular wages as strike benefits, which may be a fixed amount or a percentage of their usual pay.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The Oregon Employment Relations Act (ORA) governs union employment statutes in the state of Oregon. Some key provisions of the ORA include:

1. Right to Organize: The ORA protects the rights of employees to form, join, and participate in labor organizations, as well as to engage in concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection.
2. Collective Bargaining: The ORA requires employers to bargain in good faith with the selected representative of their employees. This includes negotiating terms and conditions of employment, such as wages, hours, and working conditions.
3. Unfair Labor Practices: The ORA prohibits both employers and unions from engaging in unfair labor practices, such as interfering, restraining, or coercing employees in the exercise of their rights, or refusing to bargain in good faith.
4. Strikes and Lockouts: The ORA allows employees to engage in strikes and employers to implement lockouts as long as certain procedures are followed, such as providing advance notice.
5. Union Security Agreements: The ORA allows union security agreements, which require employees to either join the union or pay union dues as a condition of employment. However, Oregon is a "right to work" state, meaning that employees cannot be compelled to join or pay dues to a union if they choose not to.

These are some of the main provisions of Oregon's union employment statutes under the ORA. It is crucial for employers, unions, and employees to consult the actual statutes and seek legal advice for specific details and interpretations.

 

[pepperj]

Raising their wages over 50% doesn't benefit me in any way, shape, or form, but it directly affects me as it will increase the prices of anything auto-related.

• The average starter home cost $243,000 in June, sending the income needed to afford it to $64,500 annually.

That is a medium price, meaning half costs more, half costs less, and people need to do what we did and our parents did, save money for a down payment so they can afford a home, and not try to buy more than they can afford..

There are plenty of cars in the $20,000 dollar range too, no one says you have to buy a 40K car.

1. Here are some of the best new cars under $30,000 according to Carsforsale.com 1:
   1. 2024 Mazda 3 Hatch: This car is priced at $25,000 and is known for its sporty handling and upscale interior.
   2. 2023 Honda Accord: The base model of this car is priced at $25,965 and is known for its spacious cabin and fuel efficiency.
   3. 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid: This car is priced at $28,755 and is known for its comfortable ride and fuel efficiency.
   4. 2024 Subaru Outback: The base model of this car is priced at $27,845 and is known for its standard all-wheel drive and spacious interior.
   5. 2023 Toyota Tacoma: This truck is priced at $27,000 and is known for its off-road capability and reliability.
   6. 2023 Ford Maverick: This truck is priced at $19,995 and is known for its fuel efficiency and versatility.

Your getting a real deal.
Move here and see what we pay.
Starter home in Canada.
The Ontario real estate market performed well in July 2023. The average home price in Ontario increased by 3% year-over-year to reach $910,102. The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) saw a 3% year-over-year increase in home prices, with an average home price of $1.18 million

Canada?

$41,350 to $54,350
2023 Toyota Tacoma

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Your getting a real deal.
Move here and see what we pay.
Starter home in Canada.
The Ontario real estate market performed well in July 2023. The average home price in Ontario increased by 3% year-over-year to reach $910,102. The Greater Toronto Area (GTA) saw a 3% year-over-year increase in home prices, with an average home price of $1.18 million

Canada?

$41,350 to $54,350
2023 Toyota Tacoma

No offense PJ, but I decline moving to Canda, I moved back to Florida because I was tired of shoveling snow and scraping ice, tired of bad winters too.

Having lived for almost 29 years in Colorado, N. Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, and Ohio over my lifetime I have seen more than my share of winters, bad winters, ice storms, blizzards, black ice and -25 F...

Housing and cost of living depends on where you live, there are lots of places in America with cheaper housing and cost of living.

 

[devldog]

I'm a union member of the IUOE, Was exactly a business agent for years until I couldn't take the political atmosphere any longer! I'm all about fair wages but what they are asking for is INSANE!!!

Yes. This is just about as crazy as California raising the minimal wage of fast food workers to $ 20.00 hr. C'mon.........

 

[releventchair]

Why though? If they can’t pay what the workers ask for while remaining a profitable business that’s on them. It’s capitalism in its most pure form. Because of this, if the corporations choose to move production to a place with cheaper labor, then that corporation chose to turn its back on the community that propped it up for so long. There’s no reason to vilify unions for trying to improve the live of their workers. The villain in this scenario is the corporate entity that has made the choice to put profit before people.

What is the name of your nonprofit business you draw a check from?

Business =risk.
Feel free to demonstrate how having millions hanging out means no risk for you the owner but all the risk is on your employees who should then be rewarded for thier investment.

There is a reason here in Michigan G.M. is called "generous Motors". It is not for paying far less than the rest of the state. And when you consider all the fringe benefits (and you're crazy if you don't) you got it made if you get in the door.
Then there is the actual labor. Work.
Compared to where I provided the big three and others parts , believe me G.M. is gravy!
And how does one know what working for the big three is like if they don't work for the big three? think about that. Besides those who are very open about it , those making the "tall dollar" stick out big time.

The U.A.W. give a rats butt about building vehicles with nonunion made parts? Why wouldn't they object to no strike interruptions interfering in thier production/profit?
Do they care what nonunion workforce works holidays of flies a couple parts to jump through hoops to keep them happy?
Boy oh boy the stories I could tell that place outrageous behavior squarely on U.A.W. employees and not management.
Sure there's some decent members in the minority. What does that do for those supplying thier build needs? Not much!

What did the U.A.W. do when My Teamsters job went South? (Walter Hagen Golf Equipment.)
But this week we.ve heard the Teamsters won't cross U.A.W. picket lines.
Which is kind of stupid in my opinion given thier history.
Like another union I was in that the majority of members were in a different field and wanted everyones support at contract time.
Then when a minority us wanted thier support , they didn't do anything to support us.

Key to contracts are clauses.
One clause can null a contract.
This is where a company can end the B.S..
And you and I are not going to be privy to every clause in negotiations.
I've seen proof. Have you? If so then whining about a company making it's stock holders money doesn't matter.
Nor c.e.o. compensation. Totally unrelated.
Oh but so and so makes more than me! Yep. So and so does.
But my kid hired in after me and earns more. Yep. Earns more.
Oh but I only make a few dollars more an hour than my neighbor! Yep. And how about your benefits vs the neighbors? And how hard do you really work?

I'm all for autoworkers making good money.
And they do.
Add the benefits and it's obvious they're doing quite well compared to many others.
They have for a while. No secret here.

Ask for a buttload of stuff when negotiating a contract and you'll get something. O.K..
4 day work week? Not sure why that needs to be in a contract. Is that a demand for three shifts?
When as a supplier we worked 12 hours a day seven days a week for months , did the U.A.W. say anything? Nope. Because we were not U.A.W.. Just suppliers to U.A.W. members.
Guess we should have gone on strike and starved the U.A.W. into demanding we be members?
Makes as much sense as complaining a company is successful.

When a contract has expired , what obligation does a company have to renew it?
Can the 40% (approx.) of a certain auto company's (salaried) employees train enough new hands quickly to run a line?
The answer is in how well tasks are documented. And how complicated the tasks are.
Given determined workers , more can be done.
Anyone disagreeing shouldn't be considering an auto assembly business.

Ah well. I get paid the same today regardless.
The golden goose gets abused enough , it'll change terms.

Outside of Michigan the big three don't see the loyalty they do locally. Feed your neighbor type stuff.
Other makers have gained traction though. Quality ; and of course price points matter.
Used to be a buy American drive here. A strong one!
However , we prior parts suppliers are not ignorant of how many foreign parts are being used to build American vehicles. Oh but it's American labor! Yep. And so is labor when parts are made in America by American companies and employees.

Ford history of the Rouge plant and amount of American parts and workers for example. Vs today.
I don't really care for loyalty demands after. Or 4 day work weeks if production schedules don't agree. Remember my supplying parts 7 days a week? Will a four day work week reduce pressure on suppliers when "just in time" deliveries reduce storage space needed for assembly plants? After all , product on shelves is money sitting there. And requires additional handling.

When it costs more for suppliers to get parts to you then your contract with that employer is going to cost more. Obviously. Never mind your prior attempts at price cut throat. Look who left to build parts. Your being cheap has cost domestic sourcing capability.
And with your 4 day week and increased cost to get it now what becomes of your reduced profitability? The higher paying company or your less paid customers going to send you flowers to enjoy on your three day weekend?