🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Two Stamping Dies Need Help With Id.

[Hunter1805]

I have 2 medal stamping dies that I had about 15 years. I started to do some research and found one of the dies is a famous Admiral. Admiral Dewey who was active in the Spanish American War. The die was used to stamp war medals. I can track the exact die to an oil painting of Dewey. Still focused on the exact medal very close but not 100% . If you guys want to help with this identification that would be great ..
Now the second die most likely is from the same period 1890-1910. I would say Civil War - WW 1 .. But I can't find any match...If you can help me with this one that would be great.

I think their is value here in both monetary and historic. Any info would be great. Thanks for looking
JIm

 

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[DCMatt]

I looked at this for a while - mostly shooting in the dark. Sadly, there's not much to go on except the ubiquitous late Victorian handlebar mustache and chin puff. No uniform... Obviously famous once-upon-a-time, but unknown to me...

 

[Mud Hut]

He looks rather German to me,.

 

[Timbermaster]

Possible King George V with that ‘stache!

 

[Mackaydon]

Dewey; taken from this photograph.

George Dewey Signed Photograph | RR Auction

Sold for $368 | Vintage circa 1903 matte-finish 5 x 8.5 photo of George Dewey in his military uniform by the Clinedinst Studio of Washington, D.C., affixed to

www.rrauction.com

Don in SoCal

 

[Red-Coat]

Interesting items.

I think there’s a bit of confusion seeded here. At least in the order that the pictures appear in my browser, it’s the second die that undoubtedly depicts Dewey and the first die that you have been unable to identify (not the other way round as suggested by your post).

The unidentified guy has an unusually narrow elongated face. It definitely ain't George V and I suspect it might be Manoel Ferraz de Campos Salles (1841-1913) who served as the fourth president of Brazil between 1898 and 1902. Not the same engraving (and his moustache and beard seem to have varied at different times) but this is he on a medal:

 

[Hunter1805]

The Manoel Ferraz de Campos Salles (1841-1913) looks good .. I maybe we can find a stamped medal '

Cloths look right including beard,, goatee look right.. Now for the stamped medal ?

Red Coat , Thanks for your help ... Jim

 

[ToddsPoint]

I’m a bit confused here. Are the images on the dies positive or negative? A coin or medal die would be a negative image carved into the metal. Those look to me like they are positive and “stick out”. 🤔 if the images are positive, that would make it a hub, not a die. A hub has a positive image and it used to make a die that is negative. The lettering is added to the die before it’s hardened. Photography can make a negative image look positive sometimes. This is a coin die with a negative image.

 

[ARC]

I’m a bit confused here. Are the images on the dies positive or negative? A coin or medal die would be a negative image carved into the metal. Those look to me like they are positive and “stick out”. 🤔 if the images are positive, that would make it a hub, not a die. A hub has a positive image and it used to make a die that is negative. The lettering is added to the die before it’s hardened. Photography can make a negative image look positive sometimes. This is a coin die with a negative image.View attachment 2186314

First immediate thought upon first glance to me as well... they are not dies.
They might be for making a die but the image is incorrect for making anything medal or currency related.

 

[Mud Hut]

First immediate thought upon first glance to me as well... they are not dies.
They might be for making a die but the image is incorrect for making anything medal or currency related.

.... unless they are button dies.

 

[ARC]

.... unless they are button dies.

Therein lies the question of......... Size.
An exact size is needed.

 

[Hunter1805]

Ok... These would be considered a hub and not a master hub. Master hubs are used to make similar hubs. Both hubs are the size of a US half dollar. Could they be master Hubs? (LOL I have no idea what I am talking about.) I have a third hub/die that I have been looking for but no luck as of yet. .. I bought 3 of them years ago, still looking for the third one. Please, continue seeking information on these hubs (These are a positive image)
The following is information located on the side of the Hubs... Dewey is the guy on the right the heavy set guy.
Dewey .. Top Edge just below the image 187 83798
The Other Guy... 187 22955 and BLUE LABLE imprinted (Stamped) on the side .. Hope this helps

 

[ARC]

SIZE.

 

[Red-Coat]

Ok... These would be considered a hub and not a master hub. Master hubs are used to make similar hubs. Both hubs are the size of a US half dollar. Could they be master Hubs? (LOL I have no idea what I am talking about.) I have a third hub/die that I have been looking for but no luck as of yet. .. I bought 3 of them years ago, still looking for the third one. Please, continue seeking information on these hubs (These are a positive image)
The following is information located on the side of the Hubs... Dewey is the guy on the right the heavy set guy.
Dewey .. Top Edge just below the image 187 83798
The Other Guy... 187 22955 and BLUE LABLE imprinted (Stamped) on the side .. Hope this helps

Hub and Die Terms, reproduced from NNP at Washington University in St. Louis website:

Master Die – A die from which other dies or hubs may be made (it can be either positive or negative).
Patrix – A hub; that from which a matrix is made; it is always positive with convex or raised relief similar to the final struck piece.
Matrix – A die for use in striking; it is always negative with concave or incised relief.
Transfer Die – An intermediate die, copying relief design to be sunk into a working die as a later step.
Punch, Puncheon – A portion of the total design from a simple letter to the entire device in raised or positive relief.
Cameo Die – A die cut or carved in the positive from which working dies would be made (by two steps of hubbing).
Portrait Die – Die bearing a portrait – usually positive – to be sunk into a working die with lettering and ornamentation (if any) to be added later.
Reduction Punch – A punch cut on a die-engraving pantograph of a portion of the total design, usually the device alone.

Hubs are made in any of several ways: they can be hand engraved (working in the positive, as a cameo die), they can be pantographically cut (from a positive hub shell), or they can be hubbed from any negative die (as a master die).