treasure beach find

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just learning to use computer.These are pics of my treasure beach find last Sept. 2004 days after hurricane. Piece of brass spike could be from 1715 ship, but what is this round, silver medallion? Appears to say: Jo-Ann L. Hall 12-30-43 -- 1-2-44. Of what century? Back side: G-1506 is pictured with spike. Need help.

 

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[Boardwalker]

Beeper - I don't think that item looks much like a Woodruff key. They are either roller shaped pins, or half-moon keys - usually the latter. I can't really tell 100% sure from the picture, but the fastener we are looking at seems to be tapered, which a woodruff key definitely would not be.

Boardwallker

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Thank you beeper and Boardwalker for your thoughts. I have already ID'ed the brass artifact as a broken spike piece. It is tapered and is identical to one in pic. The "Treasure Coast" is an area of many shipwrecks, the most famous in 1715, and spike pieces are a common find on these beaches. This brass piece is probably not connected to the tag, allthough possible. A shipwreck has been discovered 50 feet from shore. I find this wreck so close an interesting coincidence. I wish I would have searched more with my "antique" metal detector and I will, after our next hurricane.
I don't think Jo Ann L. Hall is the same Jo Anna from Virginia unless they traveled the Carribean. If it was a burial at sea, and not by locals, then she would have been born 3 days away; probably south. How far north or south could a ship travel in 3 days? Does anyone know if sailing ships were commonly used in 1844? I think this is more likely a shipwreck, but where would the coffin be going or coming from? How long would they keep a tiny dead body on board? Also could engraving like this be done onboard a ship? Or would it have to be done in a city in the Carribean?
And one more question: Does anyone have any information of a wrecked or missing ship in the area in 1844?

 

[Boardwalker]

Hi Bigcypresshunter. Here's my theory......the family of Joanne Hall make the momentous decision to take a business trip to some Caribbean locale, perhaps some trading venture. My guess, given the very strylish english engraving on the medallion, is a British port, such as Port Royal.

Mr. Hall could have been from Norfolk, or Newport, Virginia, or wherever. In the course of this romantic and adventurous journey, Mrs. Hall, although 41 years of age, becomes with child. In this caribbean port, they find conditions are primitive, and the rate of infant mortality is high, especially for women beyond their ideal childbirth age, and when Mrs. has her baby, she tragically dies three days after birth. They give her the old English name "Joanne" which means "God is gracious".

The Halls decide to return to Virginia, and to have Joanne buried there. Mr. Hall has the local silversmith engrave a medallion showing Joanne's critical dates of birth and death. She is embalmed? and placed in a coffin, and the Halls book passage on a ship sailing early in January. Two or three weeks into their journey a violent storm wrecks the ship, depositing Joanne's tiny coffin and her remains on shore. 160 years later the very purpose of the medallion placed around her neck, a remembrance of her all too brief little life, is wonderfully fulfilled, and, thanks to your search the circle is finally closed. That's my theory.
Boardwalker

Boardwalker

 

[hollowpointred]

if this tag is associated with a shipwreck,the one place that comes to mind that may be able to provide info is the DISCOVERY SHIPWRECK MUSEUM in FENWICK ISLAND DE. maybe you could send a photo to them and get their opinon? the address is
708 OCEAN HIGHWAY
FENWICK DELAWARE
19944

the phone is 302-539-9366 or toll free at 1-888-743-5524
their e-mail is dsmuseum@aol.com
i have also included a link to thier website. this is a fascinating story,and it may be the last remaining item that the world has to remember this little girl by.i really hope you can find out some info.
heres the link
http://www.discoversea.com/Homex.html

 

[joetoffton]

Silver is a relitively soft metal; Had this been washing around in the ocean the engraving would be worn and the silver would be oxidized to a nice BLACK. and it would be encrusted. Salt water takes it's toll on silver. Therefore if it was burial at sea it would be black,
encrusted and engraving worn I would say it is no more than 1944.


Joe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

joetoffton, I appreciate your interest and thoughts. But first, all silver coins are NOT WORN and are not washing around in the surf. This tag could have been deep under the protection of the sand, or it could have just washed out of the dunes. Second, it was heavily ENCRUSTED on one side only; (what does this mean?) So much that I could not read anything and as I said earlier, my friend sanded off the heavy crust with sandpaper, and only then did he realize it said something. And then I polished it. And third, the tag was, and still is, almost BLACK on one side that he did not heavily sand.
So Joe, it may be from 1944 but not because of your reasons.

 

[Noodle]

This would make a great movie... or at least part of one. The ending, maybe 8)

NOODLE

 

[joetoffton]

Being heavy encrusted on one side means you should go back and find the rest of the treaure, it had to be 'stuck' on another item
that protected that side. Maybe a clump of 'cemented' silver coins, washed from an old ship wreck. If one side was clean it was recently
Hope you can find the rest of it .


Joe

 

[lehidan]

having been a cremationist for a living, I doubt very seriously it is a cremation tag. However I would be shocked if it wasn't connected to a deceased baby girl. your theory about it being a coffin marker is probably very realistic. From description and pictures it is very doubtful it came from 1944, more than likely from 1844 or even 1744. I believe from all I read I would investigate more of the Pilgrim theory. If it was from the 1840's there are a lot of church records and may have been christened within a day or so of birth especially if she was sickly it would have been done immediately. You will find an address for the L.D.S. genealogy library on the church web site www.lds.org. if you write them or check locally with the L.D.S. church they may have a branch library near you. Anyone is welcome to use these libraries for genealogy work and they have the most comprehensive info of any existing libraries for genelogy. They have filmed almost all church, parish, cemetery, and courthouse records found in U.S. and all other countries from around the world, as well as every census record open to public viewing. hope this is helpful to you and good luck on your search.
lehidan, Mesa AZ

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thank you Joe and lehidan for the very informative posts. I am running on a very old generator with very little gasoline because of hurricane Wilma. Our electric in Broward County may not be restored until Nov. 20th, and there are very long lines for gas and very short tempers. I did however make a trip to the Vero Beach location of my original find which is about 2 hours north of here, where I was able to get enough gas to return home. I will try to siphon what is left for the generator. I have enough food and water, but no ice.
Hurricane Wilma caused very little beach erosion to the Treasure Beaches. I will try to send pic of the location. It is under many tons of sand and the neat rows of newly planted sea oats are undisturbed.
So it is impossible to locate anything.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is pic of Vero Beach duneline Oct 25, day after hurricane Wilma hit South Florida. No beach erosion to the dunes.

 

[lehidan]

I can't send you gasoline, but is there anything I can do for you? life can be tuff sometimes, but look at it as an extended camping trip. I have had my share of hardships, so if there is anything in my power I can do I will do it for you to help out!!!!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

lehidan, thanks for the interest. I will be fine. Hopefully my bank will be open tomorrow for cash. Credit cards are not accepted by most stores and gas stations operating on small generators. What I miss most is my new toy - the internet. It is also hard to find anything in a dark house.
Being a cremationist, could you explain more as to why, in your opinion, this is not a cremation tag. I would like to hear more.
I will not be able to search the area much until the next big storm erodes the dunes. However I could poke around in the preserved area of palmettos and seagrapes ( in the upper right corner of pic.)
bigcypresshunter

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just an update: not having much luck researching, however, I found out from someone diving the lease offshore that they believe there is a mid-1800's shipwreck mixed in with their 1715 site.
The 1715 site would explain the spike. He told me it is too early to ID the 1800's wreck.

I think a ship could have been carrying coffins that were tagged and numbered. They could have been shipwrecked or they could have been dumping them at sea as they went along.
I am trying to get help from Treasurenets Shipwreck forum for a wreck in '44.
Also, the leasedivers have found a WWII Avenger sunk a distance away. And the area was patrolled for enemy subs and the beaches used for Navy Seal training.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

update: I've been thinking, and this is not a one- of- a- kind memento. The large numbers, G-1506 on the back, mean that there are probably at least over a thousand of these deceased grave or coffin markers. But who is keeping record?

I could find no record of a shipwreck in '44 in this area. I requested help, but received mostly criticism for posting in front of the shipwreck forum researchers without more investigation. There are too many different scenarios. Only one member from England offered a list of British shipwrecks. I think this tag is American by the way the date is written. (day then month).

I received a nice e-mail from the Supervisor of the Genealogy Dept. at the Indian River Co. Main Library. She said several Hall families were living there in 1944. She has an index to all burials and obituaries in the county. Joann is not in these indexes.
She looked in the Florida Death Index for 1944 and there was a Joeann Hall, black female, who died in 1944 in Palm Beach County, 50 miles south.
She also checked the digitized and keyword accessible Vero Press Journal, but nothing came up.
She said there is a possibility of her being part of the Indian River Colony which arrived in 1843 and left in 1849.
She spent much time herself and invited me to come to her library and research for clues.
I think there must be more of these tags and another will show up.

 

[Noodle]

You're doing great, Bigcypresshunter. Keep up the search. I'm still going with the 1844 date due to the strokes of penmanship/engraving. The Indian River Colony sounds interesting. Too bad there's not a lot of written history with names of the colonists. I'm still rootin' for ya!

 

[JakePhelps]

Sounds like a possibility! keep up the good researching work!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Heres the old story, Doc.

I brought this old post back up for you Doc, if you have the time to read it. I have been thinkng it may be an 1800,s love token. Thanks.

 

[Michelle]

Re: Heres the old story, Doc.

I brought this old post back up for you Doc, if you have the time to read it. I have been thinkng it may be an 1800,s love token. Thanks.

cypress check this out...in the bible... eilikrinḗs (G1506), sincere, pure."Sincere" (eilikrines) means pure or genuine and describes a mind that is unmixed and unadulterated. It conveys the thought of a mind characterized by moral and ethical purity, unsullied by vices and heresies. Peter tells his readers, that they have a pure mind, which is uncontaminated and unmixed by the seductive influences of the world, the flesh, and the devil.
http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_peter_31-7.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Heres the old story, Doc.

I brought this old post back up for you Doc, if you have the time to read it. I have been thinkng it may be an 1800,s love token. Thanks.

cypress check this out...in the bible... eilikrinḗs (G1506), sincere, pure."Sincere" (eilikrines) means pure or genuine and describes a mind that is unmixed and unadulterated. It conveys the thought of a mind characterized by moral and ethical purity, unsullied by vices and heresies. Peter tells his readers, that they have a pure mind, which is uncontaminated and unmixed by the seductive influences of the world, the flesh, and the devil.
http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_peter_31-7.htm

Michelle, I thought you might help...thanks...but I dont understand the link...what does G-1506 mean?