Transporting Goods

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, "CSA Max" was WIA during the CONFEDERATE WAR, was a member of the Lynchburg, Va. HOME GUARD... AND! PROBABLY knew the "back story" of the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet... hence, selling it in his store on Main Street.

 

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[ECS]

...and if Max was mentioned in the job pamphlet and was selling copies at his store on Main street, "Buy a book, get a pick and shovel, strike for Buford's, dig, grow rich or starve".-THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, April 10, 1885, Page 1/ Column 3

 

[franklin]

...and if Max was mentioned in the job pamphlet and was selling copies at his store on Main street, "Buy a book, get a pick and shovel, strike for Buford's, dig, grow rich or starve".-THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, April 10, 1885, Page 1/ Column 3

You keep mentioning Max selling these pamphlets in his store. Where do you find that worded. I keep seeing it posted over and over but no reference to it. Is that a true statement or just a guess? Also hypnosis was big during the late 1890's and early 1900's. I kind of enjoyed the story myself. At least for a while it seemed like someone knew where the Beale Treasure was buried. George and Clayton Hart both believe the Beale Treasure story as being true George sending the story of his brother and his exploits for the treasure over sixty years after the fact and Clayton still sending out letters to code breakers forty years after they started hunting around 1897. Also Clayton being a miser and frugal with money purchased two pieces of property in search of the Beale Treasure. No there was no doubt in either of the Hart Brother's minds as to the authenticity of the Beale Papers. As you said George Hart even gave Pauline Innis directions to the iron box in Roanoke, Va. If the story was not true how did he know where the iron box was located? And Pauline Innis did recover the iron box as she recorded several times in her books.

 

[ECS]

... As you said George Hart even gave Pauline Innis directions to the iron box in Roanoke, Va. If the story was not true how did he know where the iron box was located? And Pauline Innis did recover the iron box as she recorded several times in her books.

There was NO mention of an iron box in the HART PAPERS, so what was the origin of this iron box?
I have considered that iron box suspect as to be "the iron box".
What was the provenance?
Also the Harts came up with the "Jefferson" for the "J" in the Thomas J Beale character name in the job pamphlet.
How did they determine this?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Eh...? JEFFERSON Davis, of course... 1st Lt. Newton Hazlewood, CSA first gave the pages of FIGURES to Clayton Hart to make copies of; NO BEALE TREASURE "Story" (until later). 1st Lt. Hazlewood thought "it" was buried on HIS land near Buford's Depot in Montvale... towards the Peaks of Otter. One story that PV had was that COFFINS of CSA GOLD, SILVER (BARS), & Jewelry donated to the "Southern Cause" (as CSA dead soldiers) were off-loaded at Thaxton Switch, put on wagons. Such was buried in a barn, then taken up... heading for the Peaks of Otter (Harkening Hill "area"), then FINALLY sent to Lexington, Va. & VMI. "Buried in a VAULT, 6' under"... DOES sound like a GRAVE... T. "Stonewall" J.'s Grave in Lexington, Va...? MAYBE! THOMAS JACKSON... THOMAS JEFFERSON!!!

 

[Old Silver]

Eh...? JEFFERSON Davis, of course... 1st Lt. Newton Hazlewood, CSA first gave the pages of FIGURES to Clayton Hazlewood to make copies of; NO BEALE TREASURE "Story" (until later). 1st Lt. Hazlewood thought "it" was buried on HIS land near Buford's Depot in Montvale... towards the Peaks of Otter. One story that PV had was that COFFINS of CSA GOLD, SILVER (BARS), & Jewelry donated to the "Southern Cause" (as CSA dead soldiers) were off-loaded at Thaxton Switch, put on wagons. Such was buried in a barn, then taken up... heading for the Peaks of Otter (Harkening Hill "area"), then FINALLY sent to Lexington, Va. & VMI. "Buried in a VAULT, 6' under"... DOES sound like a GRAVE... T. "Stonewall" J.'s Grave in Lexington, Va...? MAYBE! THOMAS JACKSON... THOMAS JEFFERSON!!!

What do you mean by, NO BEALE TREASURE "Story" (until later)? That's what those copied papers were about. And that's why I posted about George Hart researching in Santa Fe, asking about the Beale expedition of 1817-1822. If the papers were not about the Beale expedition, then why was George Hart researching it?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

TY for your question... CH had NO info from Hazlewood about a "Beale" Treasure, ONLY a TREASURE! When the Hart Bros. went to Ward, "et al", THEN & ONLY THEN, was there "info" about the "Beale Expedition", Thomas J. Beale, R.M., etc. ONLY a "filler" to add "meat" to the pages of FIGURES! GH went to Santa Fe...? HAVE NOT read THAT, before... dunno.

 

[Old Silver]

TY for your question... CH had NO info from Hazlewood about a "Beale" Treasure, ONLY a TREASURE! When the Hart Bros. went to Ward, "et al", THEN & ONLY THEN, was there "info" about the "Beale Expedition", Thomas J. Beale, R.M., etc. ONLY a "filler" to add "meat" to the pages of FIGURES! GH went to Santa Fe...? HAVE NOT read THAT, before... dunno.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

George Hart didn't go to Santa Fe, but in 1907 he requested information from a Santa Fe newspaper about the Beale expedition. He did get a reply in the newspaper, but evidently he was expecting a reply my mail, because the following year he sent another request for the same information.

 

[ECS]

It is interesting to note, that his son, George Luzerne Hart Jr (July 14, 1905- May 21,1984) was the Presiding Judge of the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yes, he was... Father George (Sr.) lived with his son, "Junior" in Washington, DC.

 

[franklin]

Yes, he was... Father George (Sr.) lived with his son "Junior" in Washington, DC.

Do you know who purchased the desk of George L. Hart, Sr.'s desk and what he found inside the desk?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There was NO mention of an iron box in the HART PAPERS, so what was the origin of this iron box?
I have considered that iron box suspect as to be "the iron box".
What was the provenance?
Also the Harts came up with the "Jefferson" for the "J" in the Thomas J Beale character name in the job pamphlet.
How did they determine this?

Was the Iron Box, a "plant"... sorta like "salting" the "Treasure"...?

 

[ECS]

Do you know who purchased the desk of George L. Hart, Sr.'s desk and what he found inside the desk?

An autographed copy of "GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE"?
...or Carl Nelson's notes from a Beale symposium they both attended?
The missing 20 minute Nixon White House tape?
Black Jack chewing gum wrappers?
Do inform us.

 

[ECS]

Yes, he was... Father George (Sr.) lived with his son, "Junior" in Washington, DC.

Did they have an apartment at the WATERGATE like Pauline Innis?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Did they have an apartment at the WATERGATE like Pauline Innis?

Nah... it WAS in Georgetown, tho.

 

[ECS]

I don't think a lot of hopefuls fully realize what all it would have taken to make the two trips during the period and to actually pull off this huge undertaking in secret. Not saying it wasn't possible or that it wasn't done, just saying that it would have taken a considerable amount of planning, resources, and advanced preparation at both ends.

The narrative in the Beale Papers makes these alleged journeys transporting the weighted wagons of gold and silver as a simple endeavor, not so much a "perilous adventure".
Not only did they do it in secret, they did without roads and crossing the Mississippi River with those loads at that time would have been an undertaking in itself, and would have required outside help to accomplish that.
Yet, the "unknown author" wants the reader to believe that all this occurred without anyone making note of this activity.

 

[Old Silver]

I don't think a lot of hopefuls fully realize what all it would have taken to make the two trips during the period and to actually pull off this huge undertaking in secret. Not saying it wasn't possible or that it wasn't done, just saying that it would have taken a considerable amount of planning, resources, and advanced preparation at both ends.

Planning, resources, and advanced preparation. These are things that were done, according to the Beale papers. I would think that ANY trip out west beck in those days would take such preparations, etc., yet we know that many such trips were successfully made. Not saying this one took place, just saying it would not have been anything out of the ordinary. Considering that if the party had 10 carts (just a possibility), then that would make the weight of the treasure about the same as 2-3 average men per cart or wagon. That's not much at all for a team of oxen, or work horses, or whatever they COULD HAVE had. Whether or not this actually happened, it was definitely not impossible, or even out of the ordinary.

 

[franklin]

It does prove that wagons traveled the Old Sante Fe trail years before William Bechnell. If the story is true?

Just like C. Columbus was a couple hundred years late being the first white man to come upon the shores of the US of A. Does not matter anyway as the Indian was on shore waving them to come ashore.

 

[Old Silver]

It does prove that wagons traveled the Old Sante Fe trail years before William Bechnell. If the story is true?

Just like C. Columbus was a couple hundred years late being the first white man to come upon the shores of the US of A. Does not matter anyway as the Indian was on shore waving them to come ashore.

Right you are.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It does prove that wagons traveled the Old Sante Fe trail years before William Bechnell. If the story is true?

Just like C. Columbus was a couple hundred years late being the first white man to come upon the shores of the US of A. Does not matter anyway as the Indian was on shore waving them to come ashore.

"US of A"...? I thought it was Central America...