Thunderbird Effigy...Real or Myth?

[romeo-1]

I was hoping to get some feedback as to the reality of knapped flint thunderbird effigies. Has anyone ever seen one or even found one or are they a myth. Thanks.

 

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[Twitch]

I found a perforator made from a pickwick point that looks just like a bird, but I'm confident it's a perforator and not a thunderbird.

 

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[SCdigger]

It's not an insitu...and yes, it is potting soil.

Was this "in situ" taken on potting soil?

 

[Tejaas]

I am posting this with the utmost respect for those who have posted their opinions in this thread. I am attacking/singling out no one. I am not attempting to sway anyones belief either... Im just posting what i feel is the 'gospel' on the matter regarding these pieces.
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According to some of the leading scholars in the lithics community such as Hester, Collins, Bradley and Turner - these are without a doubt 100% fantasy pieces in regards to the continent of North America.

Nationally/Internationally acknowledged for their work, these experts collective resume includes positions held such as:

- Past director of the Center For Archaeological Research

- Past/Sitting members of the administration at the Archaeological Institute of America

- Chairman of the Gault School for Archaeological Research

- Director of the Experimental Archaeology Masters Program at the University of Exeter

- Contributing authors to the acknowledged 'bible' for archaeological & lithics analysis.

I don't think anyone in the world, let alone some artifact show expert, longtime collector, or any of those 'point graders' some of y'all hold in such high regard could possibly offer an educated opinion that would trump that kind of collective knowledge... Thats a couple hundred years worth of professional firsthand expertise.

I've read that it is speculated that these fantasy pieces originated in Mexico as a novelty item sold to tourist, and they eventually migrated north.

~Tejaas~

 

[relic lover]

The archaeologists are just mad because they never found one . How long ago was it that all of the leading experts would have told you the world was flat?

 

[Charl]

The archaeologists are just mad because they never found one . How long ago was it that all of the leading experts would have told you the world was flat?

Somehow I think there are very, very, very few archaeologists losing any sleep over their inability to find a flint thunderbird.....

 

[Charl]

The archaeologists are just mad because they never found one . How long ago was it that all of the leading experts would have told you the world was flat?

invalid analogy. The ancient Greeks already knew the world was round, as did Columbus's contemporaries:

People in Columbus' Time Did Not Think the World Was Flat

As historian Jeffrey Burton Russell stated,


With extraordinary few exceptions, no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the Earth was flat.

 

[relic lover]

I never mentioned Columbus or any specific time period. But you did inadvertently answer my question. 3rd century B.C.

 

[Charl]

I never mentioned Columbus or any specific time period. But you did inadvertently answer my question. 3rd century B.C.

Right, as opposed to the 15th century AD, which is what you thought, admitted or not. You thought it was fairly "recent" or you would not have posed the observation at all. But, OK, if it makes you feel better, you didn't really think it was the time of Columbus. You did not have in mind "the world was believed to be flat in the time of Columbus" myth, when you posed that question. If that makes you feel better to make that claim. Sure, right, uh huh.......

BTW, just about every one of us, myself included, were taught in grade school that people in the time of Columbus thought the world was flat and sailors sailing west would sail off the Earth. Virtually all of us were educated in that "myth". That is not something to be ashamed of or disavowed. And, I dare say, most are likely still are exposed to that myth. But maybe your teachers skipped that part. Uh huh. Right. So......Just saying.......

"Inadvertant"?? Naw, I'm reasonably sure I answered directly and with a purpose.....

 

[relic lover]

Ironically right around the time the Flint Thunderbirds were probably being made lol.

 

[relic lover]

Here's what I'm really trying to say. I know as much about Indian artifacts as the average to 6th grader. But what I do know about is how things work in the scientific community. None of these highly regarded archaeologists even if they found one in their own dig with their own hands and their own eyes they would never bring it to light because of their precious reputations. That's just the way it is. Weather it be UFOs or Bigfoot or whatever the case may be. No one wants to risk their reputation even if they know for a fact something is true from first hand knowledge. Do I think any of the effigies I see on the internet are real? No. Do I think there's a possibility someone could find a real one? yes I do. Will anyone ever believe it's real? Probably not.

 

[mgjens42]

I found this one yesterday in northeastern Oklahoma

 

[quito]

Welcome to the forum!!

tell us more about your finding it. There are gonna be a few skeptics I am afraid

 

[quito]

Perhaps start another thread with your find.

 

[DigIron2]

I usually don't doubt what I don't know. But if so, it would be amazing to find one! I guess anything is possible?

 

[Charl]

This latest example does match a well known form for fake examples. Such as the one seen in this earlier TNet thread:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/171612-eagle-real-fake.html

 

[romeo-1]

Here's mine...definitely a fake...but made from an ancient point.

 

[Old Pueblo]

Believe it or not! (Hope I got the right scan)

Where did that one come from? Arizona?

 

[quito]

This one made of shell is good as gold.!

 

[DigIron2]

Here's mine...definitely a fake...but made from an ancient point.

I am just curious if you are being sarcastic and really did find that ? You mentioned that was made from a ancient point, my guess would be from a turkey tail? Just can't wrap my head around why someone would use a nice point for a project like that?

 

[mgjens42]

Welcome to the forum!!

tell us more about your finding it. There are gonna be a few skeptics I am afraid

go

Well, I live in northeastern Oklahoma.. There is a little creek that runs through our property, just say a stones throw from my backdoor.. This little creek has delivered thousands of points, tools and other artifacts like bone needles, hammer stones, grinding basins, trader pipes, pottery I can keep going but im sure you get the picture.. Right above this creek we found what used to be a burn pit that led to discovering other signs of long term settlement... Just over the hill is a sandstone face that runs along the ridge for 3/4 of a mile with several overhangs that at some point had been used for refuge.. Artifacts have been found in all mentioned places that are similar in make and same flint... This house is running over with artifacts and almost every artifact was pulled from this creek or within 200 yards of it,,
Now back to my find it was laying on a gravel bar in about two inches of water, With every rain things are washed out and into the creek, a person isn't looking if they don't find something,,, As far as skeptics go who cares, I know what I know and its not my job to convince anybody of fact, I do know that a narrow and closed mind is a sign of ignorance, and the only true way to discovery is by forgetting what you believe to be fact.. That task is extremely hard for some, impossible for others and the ones that master it, well they get to enjoy the bounty of what people from times gone by left behind!! But I bet if one of these skeptics walked upon that hunt token they wouldn't leave it lay telling themselves it a fake, and they wouldn't call their friends and say, "hey John come over and look at this fake eagle I found", no they would scratch their head and delve into the proper material and learn something new!! Plus if the skeptics are on my back that only means that someone else is getting a break!!! Good day y'all