This is what we are up against

I run into the same idiotic thinking in Ohio building bridges. I have to put up expensive silt fence, to keep silt out of the water....the valleys here are nothing but silt. It rains, and is muddy for a week, but I can't run my Excavator across the creek,and stir it up for 5 minutes, I'm supposed to haul it around.

I used to argue at the pre-construction meetings with the pencil pushers The creek channel gets moved, straightened, etc. but I'm not "allowed " in the stream. BS!!! Morons. One engineer suggested a sediment trap down stream, dig a hole in the stream, fill it with rock, and when the job is over, simply remove the rock and silt from the stream bed. He was serious.

Most of them live in LAH LAH land.

What about the big dredges that keep the shipping channels open? Surely there are some in Cali. Are they banned too?
 

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That is exactly my point. When people like you take over the offices that plan and regulate, common sense will prevail.
 

Gold Maven said:
I run into the same idiotic thinking in Ohio building bridges. I have to put up expensive silt fence, to keep silt out of the water....the valleys here are nothing but silt. It rains, and is muddy for a week, but I can't run my Excavator across the creek,and stir it up for 5 minutes, I'm supposed to haul it around.

I used to argue at the pre-construction meetings with the pencil pushers The creek channel gets moved, straightened, etc. but I'm not "allowed " in the stream. BS!!! Morons. One engineer suggested a sediment trap down stream, dig a hole in the stream, fill it with rock, and when the job is over, simply remove the rock and silt from the stream bed. He was serious.

Most of them live in LAH LAH land.

What about the big dredges that keep the shipping channels open? Surely there are some in Cali. Are they banned too?
Click to expand...

Its all about politics and power - the commercial dredges fall under different regs, and for the most part, powerful lobbyists have kept the regs reasonable for them.

If I hear the phrase "the delicate balance of nature" again, I swear i'm going postal!! Nature is NOT delicate - its MMA style war with itself for millions of years!
To think the arrogance of these fools can change or stop nature is mind-numbing. Yes, raping the land is off limits , but this nitpiking individuals to death with
regulations has gotta stop.
 

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dirt released into waterways from dredging kills flora an fauna....fish die when they breath dirt instead of oxygen...same with water plants...
What color is the sky in your world? I am wondering after a rainstorm, are your creeks filled with dead fish, and dead flora and fauna:laughing7:



if you had observed some method of retaining the dirt holding water from sluice/dredge operations entering the water ways, no new laws would have been required...hydraulic mining was outlawed since it killed everything that could not run away.
I have always contained ponding material outside the waterway when highbanking, the rule has always been wet to wet and dry to dry. I don't know anybody who dredges dirt, I always mined river gravel. For someone who claims to be educated in mining and having all of this experience, you must have slept through every class and assignment. :laughing7:
 

Sc - please stay and give us your thoughts. You believe that small-scale dredging is harming the environment. We all agree that washing mountains down
into the rivers in the hydraulic days was raping the environment, yes? I think we all agree that LARGE scale mining, unregulated, as in underdeveloped third world countries is wrong, yes? Now, in the U.S. everyone knows of large open pits, coal mining ops who lop off mountaintops back east, - places like Ajo in
Ariz., Kennecott in Utah, Barrick in Nevada, Anaconda in Montana. These are large companies digging large holes in America, and they have the money to put out their own propaganda about creating jobs, improving school district taxes, etc.

But now we get to mom-and-pop small-scale river mining. That's what is being discussed here. It is my contention that if there were no naked hippies
downstream to say "eww" when turbidity from small dredges entered their skinny-dipping holes, and if there were not thousands of miles of hiking trails
gouged out of the forest in the last 30 years, there would be no trekkers around to hear the engines of small-scale river miners, and thus no "eww" why is
it so noisy in my pristine forest?" So, back to your evidence that dirt from small-scale dredging kills fish, flora, and fauna - got any?
 

I just got back from a dredging trip yesterday. While I was underwater pulling rocks the small-mouth bass gathered around my work area, waiting to feed on eels and small crawdads.
The murky water discharged out the back of the dredge about fifteen feet long and maybe two feet across. Beyond that it was clear.
No fish were harmed, in fact they were fed, by the process; additionally, I picked about an ounce of wildlife-harming lead, nails, and a radiator hose out of the water.

An active osprey nest was perched above the river on a platform atop a power poll. Beautiful!

Don't knock it til you try it.
 

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secretcanyon said:
wow...continually blaming others for ones own behavior....

dirt released into waterways from dredging kills flora an fauna....fish die when they breath dirt instead of oxygen...same with water plants...

if you had observed some method of retaining the dirt holding water from sluice/dredge operations entering the water ways, no new laws would have been required...hydraulic mining was outlawed since it killed everything that could not run away.

but no...blame the hippies...personal responsibility is fine for others eh?
Click to expand...

I have 10's of thousands of hours in the mining industry. So what is your point?
 

secretcanyon said:
wow...continually blaming others for ones own behavior....

dirt released into waterways from dredging kills flora an fauna....fish die when they breath dirt instead of oxygen...same with water plants...

Since your an "educated" man, would you like to kindly explain to everyone here the purpose of a riparian area and how it works?

if you had observed some method of retaining the dirt holding water from sluice/dredge operations entering the water ways, no new laws would have been required...hydraulic mining was outlawed since it killed everything that could not run away.

Hydraulic mining was bad. That we can agree upon. If what was done 100+ years ago is your basis for this, well, then you need to grow up. We've learned a lot since then.

but no...blame the hippies...personal responsibility is fine for others eh?
Click to expand...

I will await your answer since your an "educated" man, but I will warn you ahead of time, you ARE NOT the only one here educated.
 

This guy is a hit and run troll, wannabe... Not calling names, just stating a fact... Nobody with his supposed credentials could make such uneducated statements. Wait till the envior SS decided the electormagnetic waves from his coil are potentially harming earth worms.... You won't be hunting relics anymore. Maybe a relic moratorium at first that last maybe 5 years. And when all the scientific evidence is heard, they still put a permanent ban because of proposed harm, or reduce the amount of relic permits and raise the price of a relic permit from 35 dollars to 1500 dollars.. This isn't about hippies, this is about a agenda that will due anything for the end result, ANYTHING.:BangHead:
 

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Oakview is right. A "troll" jumps in just to oppose you, does not use facts, then boasts multiple degrees as if that meant something; never been in the water, never held a pan, too educated to be useful in society (but they probably just lied about that anyway, because why would someone with such a transcript be wasting time here?)
Trolls should be dealt with by the administrators to keep honest members from dropping off.
 

Insinuating people do not have the ability to understand someone because one person's formal education is higher than another person's education is talking down to members and violates our rules.

Please do not do it or a mod will get involved...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

Ok. Just saying what trolls do, attempt to intimidate people by stating multiple degrees, or asking what your level of education is.

IMHO trolls have way too much freedom here. I post a new thread, trolls jump onto it. I see them on most threads I read.

I'll stick to the local forums here, where learning and sharing is the focus.
 

KarenD said:
Ok. Just saying what trolls do, attempt to intimidate people by stating multiple degrees, or asking what your level of education is.

IMHO trolls have way too much freedom here. I post a new thread, trolls jump onto it. I see them on most threads I read.

I'll stick to the local forums here, where learning and sharing is the focus.
Click to expand...

Karen, my reply was not directed at you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 

Factories that emit phosphates and nitrates are the probable cause
 

http://www.alaskagoldventure.com/adobefiles/dredge_study_2_fs-0155-97_1_.pdf
"Concern has been raised that the dredge operations
may be increasing the metal load and turbidity of the
river while decreasing the number and diversity of
aquatic biota. Whereas dredge operations do resuspend
the bottom sediment, the magnitude of this disturbance
on stream metal loading is unknown, as is its possible
impact on stream biota. Furthermore, it is unknown
what effect the dredge operations may have on the
transport and redistribution of metals—some of which
(for example, arsenic, copper, and zinc) have
environmental importance. State and Federal
regulations require that the degree of adverse impact,
if any, be quantified. The U.S. Geological Survey and
the Alaska Department of Natural Resources are
cooperating in a project to provide the scientific data
for upcoming decisions that involve State and Federal
land-use options and their regulations."
 

Published in 1997, "may...." - again, you know the difference between the precautionary principle and EVIDENCE. Keep looking.
 

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