This guy is on the bad list

[Aquila]

The guy at Chickamauga was wrong and he knew it. You can not pick up anything. It is well posted there. He found 3 bullets and did not have a metal detector. The equiptment being used out there is exposing some top soil. Chickamauga is the second largest battlefield behind Gettysburgh. It is hallowed ground.They have had problems with people sneaking in and hunting at night for years. They have to prosecute offenders.

Are you even allowed to breathe? Bullets arent nazi gold or aztec treasure.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

The guy at Chickamauga was wrong and he knew it. You can not pick up anything. It is well posted there. He found 3 bullets and did not have a metal detector. The equiptment being used out there is exposing some top soil. Chickamauga is the second largest battlefield behind Gettysburgh. It is hallowed ground.They have had problems with people sneaking in and hunting at night for years. They have to prosecute offenders.

Are you even allowed to breathe? Bullets arent nazi gold or aztec treasure.

Bullets aren't gold or aztec treasure, but many of the artifacts found on the grounds are quite valuable to collectors, buttons, buckles and other items carried by the soldiers into battle are very valuable, and bring high dollar.........

As far as breathing, ask the people dying trying to make it to our shores.....

 

[jrsherman]

Okay. My first opinion will be that this guy was in the wrong, I think we can all agree on that, seriously. He knew where he was, what he was doing, and that he was doing it illegally. This kind of relic removal hurts us a lot more than the regular kind, because it gets in John Q. Public's eye, and we all know John Q. Public thinks if it's wrong in the paper, then it's a Federal Law until proven otherwise.

It's not the relics in the ground that's as important as where they were located. That info is what matters. Once the info is gathered, I personally could care less where the artifacts end up (I would prefer that they were public). Beyond that, related to this example, my concern is that places like earthworks, that cannot be replaced, are destroyed forever. Not sure why this is an argument if you truly believe in history.

This, though, in bold, is what I do not agree with. I am a relic hunter, won't deny it, won't lie to your face about it. As stated above, the American Civil War is one of the most documented and written over wars in recent history, to include WW1, WW2, and more recent wars. What are we going to change by the simple location of where a bullet lies and is pointing, that may have tumbled in mid-air or rolled in the ground? God forbid it was struck by a plow and changed position in the years that the battlefields were farmed before becoming State and Federally protected areas. . .

You said above these pieces of history aren't rotting away, it's painfully obvious to me that you have never been in an overly fertilized farmers crop field, holding the crumbling remains of a button you will never hope to be able to identify because the combined effects of the fertilizer and the acid in the soil have permanently removed the face, and you don't know what it feels like to be saddened to watch that small remainder of a face crumble after you've spent hours trying to delicately trace a few lines to determine what type of button it was.

I doubt you realize how excited a relic recoverer is when he finds a bare remnant of thread hanging on the shank of a button, the lost breath if it's a piece of cloth, or a piece of leather attached to anything, be it a knapsack j-hook, a belt adjuster, a simple rivet, or God forbid in your eyes, the end of a leather waist belt still attached to a belt plate. . .

Lest we forget, there are those of us who covet the simpler things, things made of the easiest material to degrade, yet the most abundant on earth, those relics of iron. I've never heard archaeologists cry "Foul" when the EOD destroys an artillery shell with no hope of recovery, replacement, or even putting the puzzle pieces back together. Does the archaeological community have personnel that risk life and limb to preserve those relics? I sure haven't heard of any, and that's a smaller community yet within the relic world.

You talk of earthworks in the same context as battlefields themselves, and to some extent I will agree. My rebuttal, however, would be places like the trenches at the Battle of Kinston, North Carolina, which were recently exposed and a power station placed directly on top of. Though the trenches were covered in thick woods for years, when the woods were bulldozed down, you could clearly see the remains of them. Now they will never be seen again. Where did the archaeological community step up? In stark contrast, the Visitor's Center in Kinston is a museum dedicated to the battle, and its collection is almost entirely provided by and encouraged with your named evil.

As far as I'm concerned, you've named yourself for who you are in the reddened statement above and your sudden influx of posts on this singular topic. All the archaeologists seem to want is to be paid, at a high cost no less, for information that is relatively useless for what it would be used for, then shuffle it out of the eyes of those who might otherwise become too interested for the archaeologists own good. As Jeff has said above, how much history is permanently lost from view in the basements and warehouses of museums that will almost certainly never be seen again for several generations, as it already has?

History is done. No matter how much information you add about it, it will not change the course of human events in between the time it happened and when new information is added. May we learn from history? Yes! History as a whole, though, not as the course of an errant bullet that struck a leaf and tumbled over a ridge.

As always, this is my opinion, misguided or not, but not subject to your opinion which is misguided to me.

 

[Snarkie]

I'm sure it's been said before, but this is the kind of jerk that gives us all a bad name in the eyes of the public.

 

[Frankn]

It's not just history that the government is hoarding! When I was at Yellowstone Park, at the obsidian mountain, the ground was covered with millions of quarter size pieces. I would have loved to have had one but the guardian ranger said it was illegal to even pick one up. He said if every one took one none would be left for future visitors.
I told him about Rockhound State park in NM. You can take out 8# of rocks per visit. They have maps that show you where different rocks are. They check your finds to tell you the best way to work with each type of rock. The ranger said he had been there many years and it looks the same now as when he first started there. Frank

 

[NewsMan]

Listen... my comment about not rotting in the ground specifically referred to bullets. Which do not rot in the ground... even after a bazillion years. Second, my comment about "not caring about" what happens to the relics was shot from the hip. Point there is that I didn't want to delve into what happens to the relics post recovery. My only point, which is supported in many, many, many articles is about the loss of information when a piece is taken from the battlefield without proper recording. I COMPLETELY disagree with you that the positioning does not matter. Yes, there are relics in farm fields overturned a hundred times... but there are MANY, MANY more relics that are never plowed. It isn't like you can make rules for different scenarios. I prefer to err on the side of caution when you only have once chance to do it right because if you do it wrong, the info is lost forever. And, btw, I do hold relics and imagine back in time. In fact, I spend my vacation time going to real, current battlefields just to smell it and feel it. Nothing like standing in an old boneyard in Afghanistan picking up WWI & II era GERMAN helmets... right off the ground!!! With leather straps still intact! So please, while your insight is appreciated, do not slight my experience because you disagree with my point of view. What I care about is HISTORY, not profit.

As for my sudden influx of posts on this topic: I am new to this board and this is a subject that hit close to me recently (if you read the blog post I included). So no conspiracy here. I'm a news reporter, not an Archeologist. I love history as much as the next guy and I love finding it... LEGALLY.

 

[lostcauses]

It's not just history that the government is hoarding! When I was at Yellowstone Park, at the obsidian mountain, the ground was covered with millions of quarter size pieces. I would have loved to have had one but the guardian ranger said it was illegal to even pick one up. He said if every one took one none would be left for future visitors.
I told him about Rockhound State park in NM. You can take out 8# of rocks per visit. They have maps that show you where different rocks are. They check your finds to tell you the best way to work with each type of rock. The ranger said he had been there many years and it looks the same now as when he first started there. Frank

It is being debated over closing this place also to taking of the rocks. .

 

[lostcauses]

Listen... my comment about not rotting in the ground specifically referred to bullets. Which do not rot in the ground... even after a bazillion years. Second, my comment about "not caring about" what happens to the relics was shot from the hip. Point there is that I didn't want to delve into what happens to the relics post recovery. My only point, which is supported in many, many, many articles is about the loss of information when a piece is taken from the battlefield without proper recording. I COMPLETELY disagree with you that the positioning does not matter. Yes, there are relics in farm fields overturned a hundred times... but there are MANY, MANY more relics that are never plowed. It isn't like you can make rules for different scenarios. I prefer to err on the side of caution when you only have once chance to do it right because if you do it wrong, the info is lost forever. And, btw, I do hold relics and imagine back in time. In fact, I spend my vacation time going to real, current battlefields just to smell it and feel it. Nothing like standing in an old boneyard in Afghanistan picking up WWI & II era GERMAN helmets... right off the ground!!! With leather straps still intact! So please, while your insight is appreciated, do not slight my experience because you disagree with my point of view. What I care about is HISTORY, not profit.

As for my sudden influx of posts on this topic: I am new to this board and this is a subject that hit close to me recently (if you read the blog post I included). So no conspiracy here. I'm a news reporter, not an Archeologist. I love history as much as the next guy and I love finding it... LEGALLY.

What do you consider "profit"??
Is that what you believe was driving these fools that ignored the warnings for a few relics

 

[NewsMan]

This guy is OBVIOUSLY digging under the cover of night because he's trying to make money. That's what thieves do. He got caught with three bullets. What about the likely dozens of times he wasn't caught? You act as if this is some kid busted with his finger in the cookie jar. This was a grown man, hunting under the cover of night in a federally protected area. You tell me what his motivation likely was. So he got unlucky and found bullets.... you don't think he would have preferred to have three plates instead of three bullets? Come on, people, use some logic when debating this issue. We can play the "what if" game to any extreme you want... we all still know exactly what this guy was up to.

 

[jrsherman]

Listen... my comment about not rotting in the ground specifically referred to bullets. Which do not rot in the ground... even after a bazillion years. Second, my comment about "not caring about" what happens to the relics was shot from the hip. Point there is that I didn't want to delve into what happens to the relics post recovery. My only point, which is supported in many, many, many articles is about the loss of information when a piece is taken from the battlefield without proper recording. I COMPLETELY disagree with you that the positioning does not matter. Yes, there are relics in farm fields overturned a hundred times... but there are MANY, MANY more relics that are never plowed. It isn't like you can make rules for different scenarios. I prefer to err on the side of caution when you only have once chance to do it right because if you do it wrong, the info is lost forever. And, btw, I do hold relics and imagine back in time. In fact, I spend my vacation time going to real, current battlefields just to smell it and feel it. Nothing like standing in an old boneyard in Afghanistan picking up WWI & II era GERMAN helmets... right off the ground!!! With leather straps still intact! So please, while your insight is appreciated, do not slight my experience because you disagree with my point of view. What I care about is HISTORY, not profit.

As for my sudden influx of posts on this topic: I am new to this board and this is a subject that hit close to me recently (if you read the blog post I included). So no conspiracy here. I'm a news reporter, not an Archeologist. I love history as much as the next guy and I love finding it... LEGALLY.

I'd like to share a photo of degraded lead bullets for your benefit and inexperience. These bullets were not in a fire, they were simply in ground that has been fertilized heavily while having already other than normal soil conditions.

Even with the gentlest of cleaning, using a soft brush, the lead flakes and breaks off. It's not up to me to say that in 1000 years these bullets would still be there, and not have turned into a layer of oxidized lead with no recognizable shape.

You say, once again, that the positioning matters so much. I say, yet again, why? What serious and honest purpose does the directional placement of a single bullet, of thousands(if not tens of thousands) known to tumble in mid-air do for the overall context of a battle whose win/loss factor has already been decided, and 150 years of a country built past that event? Please, help me understand, once again, how it will change the known history of the most widely publicized war in American history.

As it stands, all I can see it being is the story of the archaeologist in Atlanta, who spent an amazing amount of time and his employer's money documenting the route of a single fired bullet on an unknown or errant flight path, to determine in the end that there was no good answer, and the only thing that came out of it was some small publicity for him and a bullet to sit in a labeled plastic bag in a basement.

I'll be dead and gone, and I pray that the placement of my ashes does no benefit to anyone that wants to study me.

 

[NewsMan]

WTF is wrong with you people talking to me like I'm some idiot and my "inexperience". Can we not be productive instead of immature and name calling? I am not going to explain the importance of positioning. Google it and you will find all the explanation you need. But, since you are so simple... when I get a second I'll cite a dozen things for you. But I'm not sure I want to waste my time because, like my ex-wife, you'll just find something else silly to try to negate it. If you truly believe that relic positioning doesn't provide VALUABLE historical information... you, my friend are the inexperienced one.

Jeesh.

 

[lostcauses]

This guy is OBVIOUSLY digging under the cover of night because he's trying to make money. That's what thieves do. He got caught with three bullets. What about the likely dozens of times he wasn't caught? You act as if this is some kid busted with his finger in the cookie jar. This was a grown man, hunting under the cover of night in a federally protected area. You tell me what his motivation likely was. So he got unlucky and found bullets.... you don't think he would have preferred to have three plates instead of three bullets? Come on, people, use some logic when debating this issue. We can play the "what if" game to any extreme you want... we all still know exactly what this guy was up to.

Addiction. Md'ers actually admit they are addicted to it. Kind of hard to say other wise when they are willing to swing a noise stick for a great many hours to dig trash to find a few relics or coins.

Artifact hunters over relic hunters tend to say they are not addicted..

It does not seem rational to the out siders for the whys of artifact/ relic hunting.
So it has to be for the money!
The time and money spent learning finding and perfecting methods of the hunt is usualy not known.
The money and time spent is rarely told or accounted for.
And of course sites like this show the "Wins", and very few of the losses.

It is easy to rationalize the money as motive for such. Yet it is rarely the truth.

Yes even the basic hunter has to part with finds to pay for the hobby ( its not as cheap as most think it is), yet most do not like to part with their finds.

 

[lostcauses]

News Man don't take the negative personally.
I take stands here and else were that are not generally liked.

The primary one is the simple
" If you do not have permission stay the hell off! "

For all these people know; with your suggesting of having them send you location information: you might be trying to steal there sites, or worse a cop etc..

You also fit as an outsider in the game with the responses you have made.

 

[jrsherman]

Okay, I'll be the inexperienced one, who doesn't understand why 15 holes cost $9k.

I'll also be the inexperienced one who doesn't believe that a round ball-note round-that rolled down a 15 degree hill to a place of rest provides any information other than that a round ball rolled down a 15 degree hill.

Ya got me, I'm just a noob and a hillbilly from the sticks. I ain't up to yer newsman level of smerts. I'm sure that if I googled it, I'd find 10 archaeological reports on why relic position matters to archaeologists. After all, they're the only opinion that matters to the law since they're on the "right" side.

If you're looking for some action, you might talk to a few people that know where Civil War firing ranges are, you can document placements of fired bullets for weeks, if not months, on end and never learn anything other than the caliber and variety of bullets used at that firing range, and then you can dig randomly placed 4x4 test holes every few yards in the opposite direction until you determine the general area they fired from. Or you could roughly estimate a 100 yard line and start there. . .

 

[Old Dog]

*Georgia Treasure Hunter Faces Prison Time


ROME, Ga. -- A 53-year-old Bartow County man has told a federal court he was looking for treasure when he dug 15 holes in a Civil War battlefield. Eric George Blaasch pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Rome Wednesday to charges related to digging the holes and taking three Minie balls, Civil War-war era bullets. Blaasch is not expected to have to pay restitution, but he could face up to two years in prison and 94 days public service when he's sentenced on Oct. 8. Authorities say he was covered in mud and carrying tools and a flashlight when he was spotted by park rangers in Feb. 2005 in the Chickamauga & Chattanooga National Military Park in northwest Georgia. He initially said he had gotten lost while hiking.

Life's tough,
even tougher if you're stupid.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

This guy is OBVIOUSLY digging under the cover of night because he's trying to make money. That's what thieves do. He got caught with three bullets. What about the likely dozens of times he wasn't caught? You act as if this is some kid busted with his finger in the cookie jar. This was a grown man, hunting under the cover of night in a federally protected area. You tell me what his motivation likely was. So he got unlucky and found bullets.... you don't think he would have preferred to have three plates instead of three bullets? Come on, people, use some logic when debating this issue. We can play the "what if" game to any extreme you want... we all still know exactly what this guy was up to.

Far as I am concerned, he deserves what ever he gets...... His actions are what causes us to lose sites to detect, gives us a bad name and gives the government ammo to pass more laws against detecting....

 

[Old Dog]

The guy could have been a smart one and done the research and acquired permission to dig on the property adjoining the park.
But NO... He snuck in under the cover of darkness and defaced a State Battleground. That in my opinion is a whole bunch less than smart.

The battle took place in the park, bullets were fired, those bullets will travel a lot farther than the park.

this guy is what works against us in every case. One person like this counteracts a hundred smart guys doing the right thing.
No,
I hope the judge nails him hard.
I also hope we as hunters can recover from the damage this fonzanune has done.

 

[NewsMan]

You also fit as an outsider in the game with the responses you have made.

Which ones...? The one where I think people should get permission? The one where I think relic positioning is important to history? The one where I believe it would take 1,000 years for a minnie ball to "crumble"? Which one shows I'm an outsider? I've been MD'ing for 15 years, have owned three detectors (currently an MXT) and don't consider myself an "outsider". Sorry.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You also fit as an outsider in the game with the responses you have made.

Which ones...? The one where I think people should get permission? The one where I think relic positioning is important to history? The one where I believe it would take 1,000 years for a minnie ball to "crumble"? Which one shows I'm an outsider? I've been MD'ing for 15 years, have owned three detectors (currently an MXT) and don't consider myself an "outsider". Sorry.

Newsman, ignore his comments, hit the "ignore this user" button below someone's name if they get on your nerves.........

The man got caught doing what is illegal, he knew it was illegal, but thought he was above the law...He deserves what he gets....

As far as the fine, it was there to get his attention, I bet he will think twice before he does it again. A simple overtime parking ticket here is $30.00, want to talk about excessive...........

By the way, welcome to Treasurenet, the best treasure site on the net...

 

[NewsMan]

Okay, I'll be the inexperienced one, who doesn't understand why 15 holes cost $9k.

I'll also be the inexperienced one who doesn't believe that a round ball-note round-that rolled down a 15 degree hill to a place of rest provides any information other than that a round ball rolled down a 15 degree hill.

Ya got me, I'm just a noob and a hillbilly from the sticks. I ain't up to yer newsman level of smerts. I'm sure that if I googled it, I'd find 10 archaeological reports on why relic position matters to archaeologists. After all, they're the only opinion that matters to the law since they're on the "right" side.

If you're looking for some action, you might talk to a few people that know where Civil War firing ranges are, you can document placements of fired bullets for weeks, if not months, on end and never learn anything other than the caliber and variety of bullets used at that firing range, and then you can dig randomly placed 4x4 test holes every few yards in the opposite direction until you determine the general area they fired from. Or you could roughly estimate a 100 yard line and start there. . .

See, there's the smart alec response again talking about firing ranges. We are talking about battlefields here partner. The 15 holes cost 9k because the judge obviously understand the logic that if he was caught digging 15 holes, there's probably HUNDREDS that he wasn't caught digging.

Here's a simple example: The Park Service uncovered the graves of several Union soldiers that had been unmarked since the war, and with the help of maps and other reference materials, archaeologists were able to reveal the location of a three-sided fort called the Battery Robinett. They were even able to discern the outline of a canteen that had rusted away; teeth from the soldiers also revealed that the deceased were most likely young men in their late twenties--one an African American from a Union regimen in Corinth that had been recruited from a contraband camp (former slaves). By combining archaeology, forensic evidence, and the historical record, the park was able to cobble together a story that might never have been revealed with the standard "shovel test" that had been in place for decades. Although metal detectors helped unearth an important story sitting underfoot for more than a century, it wasn't long ago that many archaeologists considered the tools dangerous weapons wielded by enemies of preservation.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Six+f...ers+forge+a+unique+partnership...-a0220844379

This is one SIMPLE example of why relics are important for more than money and personal collections.

Here's another:
http://www.historynet.com/ten-myths-of-the-little-bighorn.htm/7

And another: www.radford.edu/~rwhisona/Oct05sympos.doc