I'll take a cup . Don't know about him : wasn't my week to watch him .
Just how stupid were those Jesuits?
deducer,
Father Kino sold a lot of food and materials to the mines. I have heard that he insisted on payment in gold or silver. It does not seem unreasonable that the mine owners would have marked such payments with Kino's name. It does seem that if Father Kino was involved in mining the gold or silver, that he would not mark the bars with his own name.
Take care,
Joe
I hope you are not including myself in your "true believers" category, I do not propose to stand behind or authenticate these "Kino" bars at all. My point raised relates to this alternative history, which we have NO support in records or even legends, that has some mystery Spanish or Mexican miners operating in what is now Arizona during the time of father Kino, that were allegedly purchasing goods/services at the Jesuit missions. I have seen nothing to support that this occurred at all, and conversely, we have evidence and testimony, along with legends, that points to the Jesuit padres themselves as the miners. As to how or what might be marked on any GENUINE bars from these operations, we can only but speculate. I can see a reason why a padre might well wish to mark them with some kind of ownership mark, especially in light of the thieving attested to by Kino himself. Are you taking the position that Kino, or any other padre operating a mine, would NEVER mark any bullion bars in any way?
Just who or whom were these mysterious miners operating mines in Pimeria Alta in Kino's time?
Where do we have it that Kino was taking payment(s) from these miners, in silver and/or gold?
Why would you assume what Kino might or might not mark on his bars? We know that he complained of the theft of over 800 ounces that he had shipped to Rome. Perhaps Kino might start marking his silver bars after having a shipment stolen to help prevent theft in future? We also have another padre complaining that he could not work the mines as he would like due to the hostile Indians, and in another letter he mentions being in the "silver mountains". Piles of slag at two missions founded by Jesuits, and slag built right into the mission walls (buildings erected by the later Franciscans) which certainly points to some kind of mining activities being carried on by the padres. We also can trace many of the lost "Jesuit" mine stories to local Indians. Are the Indians to be discounted, because they are or were Indians? Further, if Kino and other padres were selling such quantities of supplies and stock to miners, why then did one of the padres complain that when the Spanish did visit his mission, they were in the habit of simply taking what ever they desired, and never offering to pay for it?
I realize that we have litigated this pretty much to death, and clearly you remain in the belief that the Jesuits were not involved in mining and or were on such a tiny, petty, insignificant scale as to be equivalent to picking up a few pebbles; so am not about to waste your time trying to change your mind. However I would like to see some substantiation to the claim(s) you posted, like who or whom were these "miners" operating in Pimeria Alta (which would include a goodly part of Arizona) that were buying goods/stock at the Jesuit missions, in father Kino's time, that they would be marking any bars at all? What goods, services and or stock do you propose that these mysterious Spanish or Mexican miners were purchasing?
Thanks in advance, hope all is well with you and that you are staying cool! I hope you are still improving every day and feeling better as well.
Roy ~ Oroblanco
