but you don't have any real facts on anything you claim to be fixed, edited, lied about, etc.... Have you read anywhere in a by gone history book that the Templars never came to the OI area? No you have not so it is possible, correct? I'm guessing some of ya'll think that someone ( who was not a Templar ) from the European area brought over iron, metal, and or steel, and decided to melt them down and make Templar crosses on OI. Is that what your saying as well...
Theory and Question- Serpent Mounds & Oak Island
- Thread starter Riftraft13
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ECS
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There is hard contemporary documentation including the SINCLAIR DIPLOMA written by his grandson that prove Henry Sinclair and his alleged merry band of geriatric Templars never left Scottish soil, and Henry Sinclair was defending the Scottish border during the year of this pseudo- history voyage to Oak Island.
There is also the contemporary DIPLOMA OF THOMAS, BISHOP OF ORKNEY AND ZETLAND, that states on page81, that Henry Sinclair, the Earl of Orkney, was fighting at the Borders in 1398.
That is a fact, n2mini, my friend.
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ECS
Banned
Stating that it is opinion and speculation is one thing, posting opinion and speculation as fact is quite another matter, because history matters, because truth matters, it matters because it is totally wrong to promote alternative pseudo history theories, opinions, and speculations as fact when there is NO real basis in fact.
What constantly is posted are historical revisionism and falsified fringe theories stated as "fact", that deny documented historical truth and those posters only accept their pulp self published quasi-historians sources as true, while denying the validity of the legitimate sources of professional academic historians.
If you have ever noticed, what you deem as my "opinion" is always supported by documented established sources.
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Keep in mind this goes both ways regardless of which side of the story your on.. and very few of the believers as I call them state things as fact, but almost all the nay sayers claims everything they say as fact. and neither group have facts...
do you not think that it is possible that other templars and not Sinclair himself ever came to the area. .and lets just assume for a second he or they did and buried something do you really think he/they would be telling everyone about it in a Diploma. Heck know. You hide stuff in secret you don't then turn around and write about so everyone knows....
ECS
Banned
Why would they and for what purpose is the first question, and the second why type of ship did they have in the very early 14th century that could cross the Atlantic.
There documentation that the remaining Templars (not all were warrior Knights) after the Order ended, joined other Orders, and there os NO evidence that after the end that those who fled possessed any great treasure.
That, my friend is a rather recent modern myth.
I'm not saying for a fact that they did just that it is possible and it may or may not have been written about. ya'll seem to think that every little or big thing back 200-300 years ago and more made it into a book somewhere.. and I highly doubt that... and even if it did it would have been years later just like you saying that Sinclair's "grandson" wrote the Diploma how old was Sinclair at the time and do you not think he might have either embellished some thing and or left out some thing either on purpose or just forgot.. I don't know and you don't either so don't talk as if you do...
This goes just like ya'll claiming the OI MP story not being written about till years laters and stuff made up yada yada yada. Same could apply to the Sinclair Diploma. Who knows!! other then you and singlestack apparently. Guess ya'll were at his death bed with the grandson taking notes....
This goes just like ya'll claiming the OI MP story not being written about till years laters and stuff made up yada yada yada. Same could apply to the Sinclair Diploma. Who knows!! other then you and singlestack apparently. Guess ya'll were at his death bed with the grandson taking notes....
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Yes Sinclair defending the borders? Which Sinclair? You think there was only one? There was Henry Sinclair III that was left in Charge while he was sailing the ocean blue? Sorry but you are wrong. Henry Sinclair spent the Winter at Advocate Bay, Nova Scotia during the Winter of 1398 building a ship to return home in the next Spring of 1399.
ECS
Banned
The SINCLAIR DIPLOMA covers 14 generations of the Sinclair family. If Henry Sinclair made this voyage with geriatric Templars and discovered a new continent, that would be very important to the Sinclair family history, and would NOT be forgotten or omitted from the Diploma.
The DIPLOMA OF THOMAS BISHOP OF ORKNEY AND ZELAND confirm the period in question of the Sinclair Diploma.
There is real documented history, n2mini my friend, and one not need to be a Sinclair's deathbed with grandson taking notes.
That is one of the most ridiculous statement made on these threads, tight up there with Franklin.
"This story is a modern myth, based on careless reading, wishful thinking and sometimes distortions, and during the past five years or so it has taken new outrageous forms".- Michael Remilard, historian, November 29,2116
"Henry Sinclair, an Earl of Orkney of the late fourteenth century, didn't go to America. It wasn't until 500 years after Henry's death that anybody suggested that he did"-Brian Smith, historian NEW ORKNEY ANTIQUARIAN JOURNAL Vol2 2002
ECS
Banned
For one that has posted misinformation as fact, you are quick to call others wrong.
If I and the SINCLAR DIPLOMA wrong, prove it.
Please don't use Diana Jean Muir's unproved, unverified "found" copies of the alleged "The Lost Templar Journals of Prince Henry Sinclair" as your proof, but actual real documented proof like the SINCLAIR DIPLOMA and the DIPLOMAS OF THOMAS,BISHOP OF ORKNEY AND ZELAND.
ECS
Banned
Here is an excerpt from Henry Sinclar's wikapedia page. By the looks of this it doesn't look like they kept very good records if they don't even know when or how he died!!!
It is not known when Henry Sinclair died. The Sinclair Diploma, written or at least commissioned by his grandson states: "...he retirit to the parts of Orchadie and josit them to the latter tyme of his life, and deit Erile of Orchadie, and for the defence of the country was slain there cruellie by his enemiis..." We also know that sometime in 1401: "The English invaded, burnt and spoiled certain islands of Orkney." This was part of an English retaliation for a Scottish attack on an English fleet near Aberdeen. The assumption is that Henry either died opposing this invasion, or was already dead.[4]
Henri Santo Claro (Henry St. Clair) signed a charter from King Robert III in January 1404. It is supposed that he died shortly after that although his son did not take the title until 1412. Therefore, he died somewhere between 1404 and 1412, killed in an attack on Orkney, possibly by English seamen.[6
It is not known when Henry Sinclair died. The Sinclair Diploma, written or at least commissioned by his grandson states: "...he retirit to the parts of Orchadie and josit them to the latter tyme of his life, and deit Erile of Orchadie, and for the defence of the country was slain there cruellie by his enemiis..." We also know that sometime in 1401: "The English invaded, burnt and spoiled certain islands of Orkney." This was part of an English retaliation for a Scottish attack on an English fleet near Aberdeen. The assumption is that Henry either died opposing this invasion, or was already dead.[4]
Henri Santo Claro (Henry St. Clair) signed a charter from King Robert III in January 1404. It is supposed that he died shortly after that although his son did not take the title until 1412. Therefore, he died somewhere between 1404 and 1412, killed in an attack on Orkney, possibly by English seamen.[6
ECS
Banned
Just as I suspected by his sudden silence, it is easy for Franklin claim someone is wrong, but NOT so easy for him to prove it.
As for your comment on them keeping good records in the 1400's, my friend n2mini, they same can been stated about Franklin's only source of information concerning the alleged Sinclair voyage, Muir's alleged found copies of copies of a Sinclair journal that appear to be a rewrite of the hoax Zeno document.
Bishop Thomas's Diploma confirm the information in the Sinclair Diploma of where Henry Sinclair was during the time of the supposed voyage, and it has been proven many times that Henry was not a Prince or Templar, but an Earl of Orkney.
Even Scott Wolter has his doubts about Muir's Sinclair journals with his November 29, 2018 statement ,"If the journals are genuine".
That's a very big "IF" for someone to claim those Diploma's and I are wrong.
As for your comment on them keeping good records in the 1400's, my friend n2mini, they same can been stated about Franklin's only source of information concerning the alleged Sinclair voyage, Muir's alleged found copies of copies of a Sinclair journal that appear to be a rewrite of the hoax Zeno document.
Bishop Thomas's Diploma confirm the information in the Sinclair Diploma of where Henry Sinclair was during the time of the supposed voyage, and it has been proven many times that Henry was not a Prince or Templar, but an Earl of Orkney.
Even Scott Wolter has his doubts about Muir's Sinclair journals with his November 29, 2018 statement ,"If the journals are genuine".
That's a very big "IF" for someone to claim those Diploma's and I are wrong.
ECS
Banned
How were Sinclair and his band of geriatric Templars able to build an Atlantic seaworthy ship in the Nova Scotia wildness in 1398?
Henry and his warrior Knight Templar were not known as shipbuilding craftsmen.
Franklin, please elaborate on this and provide the source of this information If it NOT from Diana Jean Muir's highly questionable journals.
Here again I call ya'll out with info I have to go get and you want to skip and change the subject and reference it as the same type thing Franklin is doing. So you admit the Sinclair Diploma isn't as all knowing as you claimed it to be. You just didn't count on anyone looking into it... SO as ya'll are fond of doing, if any of it is "suspect" we can't believe any of it. How does that feel being on the other side of that comment...
Al D
Bronze Member
It is not as black and white as you would like it to be, The Sinclair Diploma is still basically reliable, why? Because all of the documents and records had gaps, it is not important about the exact date.
on the other hand, wild claims like Templar treasure, or aliens with time portals require significant evidence, not just a plausible possibility as visioned by those whom embrace such wild fantasy.
Al D
Bronze Member
Let me add on more thing to this discussion, it is a term of which you seem unfamiliar.......
that is the term Reasonable, as in reasonable doubt
that is the term Reasonable, as in reasonable doubt
ECS
Banned
You need to reread Post#54.
Where did I "admit the Sinclair Diploma isn't all knowing"?
I said that the Diploma of Bishop Thomas CONFIRMED that information that was in the Sinclair- that Henry Sinclair NEVER left Scottish soil.
You seem to have confused the statements concerning Muir's alleged Sinclair Journals with the aforementioned Diplomas.
Where did I "admit the Sinclair Diploma isn't all knowing"?
I said that the Diploma of Bishop Thomas CONFIRMED that information that was in the Sinclair- that Henry Sinclair NEVER left Scottish soil.
You seem to have confused the statements concerning Muir's alleged Sinclair Journals with the aforementioned Diplomas.
ECS
Banned
While you are calling people out, why don't you call out Franklin and ask him how Sinclair and his band of Merry Templars could build a ship from materials in the wildness, felling trees, cut, dried, planed into shiplap boards, masts, decking, rudder, and not to mention rope for rigging and sails (there was NO Home Depot in 1398 Nova Scotia) and the source of this information.
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