The Treasures of Tayopa

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[JudyH
" LEGEND OF TAYOPA IS A MYTH "

Til Eulenspeigle declares that Tayopa is just a myth.
" I dig...and dig...and dig....
...and all I find ees theese lousy pyramids...."
Judy
***********************

A) K war has been declared!!! "NO QUARTER, DESPITE YOU BEING A VERY DELECTABLE FEMALE " HeHEHEHEHE

Hey! would you consider riding off into the desert under a full moon with me for a little spooning/necking on my pretty camelito? Quick fascinating way to re-establish peace, to my way of thinking sincker.

Outside of a fantastic offer, I think that it is very cute and well done love.

Till Eulenspiegle

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ATTN CAPT BILL This one of the mines That could be consdered to be THE TAYOPA!! Unfortunately it fits none of the requiremets for THE TAYOPA!

Will start to list some of the requirements to prove which is The TAYOPA.

Saludos Capt Bill, when are we going to have a BS session over a huge coffee pot? We have lot's to talk about my friend. I would hope that Jacko could be there as well as any others in the vicinity. - TUCSON.

Till Eulenspiegle de La Mancha

p.s. Judy I have several Engr & Miing Journals from that period.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=JudyH link=
.....when ya gonna be in Tucson.....
**************
A) A date with the Va for the usual 6 month checkup on June 6, but may be there sooner for various reasons - will keep you advised since I do want to meet you personally - beauty and brains in one package sheesh.
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Wouldn't mind being on hand for that cup of coffee.....
*************
A) And be a very welcome addition to the BS group, Mining personel are naturals. hehehhe
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Would love to see those journals.
************
A) Only with a blood oath, while jumping on one foot reciting the Seige of Troy and the Gettysburg address simultaneously.
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I like the Logo....very appropriate.
***********\
A) Tayopa lies on the riight, you already know what is on the left.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I am in the process of obtaining some of Henry's personal papers....from a private source. Should be interesting reading......just a shame he never made it there to see it himself.
***********
A) True, I would have liked to have worked with him a bit, he was on the track of Tayopa #1. He might have actually had the correct map to it, but not to Tayoa #3 which is the 'Tayopa' as you will see as this develops. Still it would have been fun... Still would be with a B & B geologist snicker..

Till Eulenspiegle de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

JudyH
Does that get me a reservation?? :P
**************
A) sheesh Judy love, my answer has disappeared ?? Love your answers even if they were not recited simultaneously and hopping on one,foot.

YES! And a chair on my Right, plus 2 enginering Mining journals dated 1906 in appology.

Tull Eulenspiegle de La Mancha

 

[OKIE]

OK RT
I'm hooked we need to talk in person!!!

 

[Kevin Marsh]

The Treasures of Tayopa
Sonora, Mexico - Value $100 Million
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Hi, all fellow treasure seekers, My name is kevin Marsh, I was with Adrian Westwood on two of his expeditions to Mexico, and infact took the photos shown in the script below. Adrian had at the time of his first trip been studying Tayopa for at least four years, by the time of my first trip he had been studying for about seven years. So whether the name is spelt correctly or not he does know a fair bit about it. Whilst in Mexico, we found a large number of ancient ruins, but alas no real treasure. I have not seen or heard from Adrian for a number of years now and would like to meet up with him again, so, anyone know how to get hold of him??
Thanks and good hunting,
Kevin Marsh (U.K.)


Four bells inscribed TAYOPA. ?Weight 727 lbs.

One bell inscribed REMEDIOS. Weight 285 lbs.

One bell inscribed PIEDAD. ?Weight 125 ?lbs.

These bells were cast in 1603 by the Right Rverend Father Ignacio Maria de Retana.

One silver cross with gold crucifix. ?Weight 40 lbs.

Pair of candlesticks and six bars of silver. Weight 113 lbs.

Four incensories of gold and silver. Weight 28 lbs.

One large custody with silver bracket. ?Weight 25 lbs.

Two silver chalices and twelve gold communion plates.

One shrine with four silver columns. Weight 100 lbs.

Sixty-five cargas of silver. ?Weight 14,000 lbs.

Eleven cargas of gold. Weight 2475 lbs.

Casilla ore. ?Weight 4575 lbs.

First-class Castilla ore with a known assay of 22 carats, clean and without mercury. ?Weight 1625 lbs.

In a cut stone box are stored jewels. ?The box is buried in the basement of a room built of stone and mud between the church and the side of the convent and fruit garden."

"A true and positive description of the mining camp Real of our Lady of Guadelupe of Tayopa, made in January 1646 by the Right Reverend Father Guardian Fray, Fransisco Villegas y Orosco, Royal Vicar-General of the Royal and Distinguished Jesuit Order of St. Ignacio of Tayopa, and Jesuit of the Great Faculty of Sonora and Biscalla, whom may God keep long years.

Ever since Fransisco Vasquez de Coronado wrote the Spanish Viceroy Mendoza in 1538: "the natives of Topira (the name given to Tayopa in the early annals) wear gold and emeralds and other precious stones. ?They make general use of gold and silver with which they cover their houses. ?The leaders wear finely worked gold chains around their necks" ?treasure hunters have searched for the metals of the Sun and the Moon deep within the innermost recesses of the Sierra Madres of Northern Mexico. ?For nearly three hundred and fifty years its location, and that of the treasure vault have remained unknown.

?Expeditions into the"Mother Mountains" (74k) ?have to contend with desert, jungle, and mountainous terrain: temperatures which range from 100 degrees F during the day, to 10 below zero C at night; black panthers and jaguars prowling around the camp; scorpions, tarantulas, rattlesnakes, and coral snakes; and the most dangerous of them all, narcotraficantes... drug runners. ?All in all, the ideal locale for a buried treasure. ?But what is the background storty to this remarkable quest?

?The legendary Lost Mines of Tayopa are probably familiar to all treasure hunters who've read J. Frank Dodie's Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver. ?The book is a treasure chest of folklore and traditions, from the American Southwest and Mexico, pertaining to buried treasures and lost gold mines.

Many of the mythical gold mines were relocated by American and British mining companies, in the heady years between 1890 and 1910. ?Their success was eventually curtailed by Panch Villa and the Mexican Revolution.

Tayopa however, refused to be drawn into the light of mortal man's gaze, and remains hidden to this day. ?The treasure was amassed between the years 1632 and 1646 by the Jesuit padres operating the mining Real and mission of Tayopa. ?Two sister settlements, Guaynopa and Guaynopita, were in close proximity. ?All three were razed to the ground by Pima and Opata indians during the spring of 1646 as part of a general uprising which engulfed much of northern New Spain.

The reason why so much gold and silver bullion was present at the missions was because the Jesuits were in league with Spain's arch enemies, the Dutch, to take over large areas of the Spanish Empire in the East Indies, Central and South America. ?The plot failed and the Jesuits were eventually expelled from all Spanish dominions in 1767.

Tayopa was located in a very inhospitable and isolated area of New Spain and had very little contact with the outside world for much of the year; only four people were encountered during the four months that were spent on the trail! ?Neither Jesuit mysticism nor Spanish bayonets could penetrate the veil of silence which was drawn over Tayopa's location and it has remained lost for three and a half centuries.

Such is not the case with the other two missions.

?According to Adrian Westwood, "we have relocated the missions of Guaynopa (99k)and Guaynopita, the Indian cliff ruins ?(88k) where the survivors of the initial Indian attack made their last stand, and numerous other blockhouses protecting the canyon approaches and dam walls. ?Several arrasytres, or Spanish ore crushers have also been found. ?Tayopa, the third point of the "Golden Rectange" is nearby.

During the three previous expeditions I have been able to cover a vast area of the Guaynopa canyon and its environs, tracking down landmarks, and following up Indian legends and 19th century mining reports.

When not in the field, we have continued the research through libraries, archives, and museums in Spain, Mexico, and the U.S.A. ?Many leads have been blind alleys, but every so often, a valuable clue has dropped into place. ?One such clue turned up in October of 1994, and I believe it will lead me straight to the treasure vault when the expedition sets out in April of 1995... if my interpretation is correct.

Many have searched for Tayopa, many have died for it, and all believed that they knew where it was. ?Such is the lure of treasure hunting.

Parts reprinted from "Jesuit Gold A Treasure Hunters Guide to Tayopa" ?by Adrian Westwood.

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[Badger Bart]

Realde, my maps have arrived from the Sandwich Islands. I just finished listing them here in the buy, sell, trade category, as you suggested. They are Andriveau- Goujon maps from a quite expensive rare book. One bookseller is asking $1600 for the book, despite some missing maps. One has a very good detailed map of Mexico, and all the NA maps should be excellent aids in searching for old Western towns and names. We'll see what happens...

 

[djui5]

Update??

It's amazing how similar some of these clues are to the LDM in AZ. Makes me wonder if some of the documents I've been seeing/ clues I've been hearing about are actually clues to this mine that made their way to AZ either through the Jesuits or the Spanish Peralta clan....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Morning: HI Kevin, sorry that I haven't been back to answer your post. As I mentioned at the first, I was in contact with Adrian, but when I mentioned that I had "the" Tayopa, he broke off all further contact. I have treid various to reestablish it, but to date, nothing.

If you wish, please em me. This is open to anyone else naturally. All that I have to hide is the "X's" Themselves.

DJ, interesting idea, but at the momemt I am doubtful, however ---.if you could see the list of things that I have discarded in the past on the Tayops search, you will realize that nothing is impossible, improbable yes, but not impossible. --Cap Sossoi reforming is an exception, never happen.

Till Eulenspiegle de La Mancha

 

[buscadero]

This was among some notes I had on Tayopa. Don't know where I got em.
Go from Nuri & get in Chino Gulch. Travel NE for many days till you come to a Waterfall. From W side of Waterfall go 4-5 Leagues & there will be the foundation of the Church. In a semicircle, there will be the 14 Mines. (probably filled in)


JOE

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Real de Tayopa and everyone,
I am a bit late joining in here but wanted to add my two shekels.

First, the spelling of the name is not really a vital point; in fact if you restrict your research ONLY to a single spelling you WILL miss important data. I have seen Tayopa on ancient documents spelled Tayopa, Tayope, Taiopa, Taiope, Teyope, Teiopa and Taope. Spelling should be the least of your concerns when researching the mine. If you insist on spelling it a certain way, I will oblige you here but it is not a great habit when researching old archives.

I noted the photos of Guaynopa mission ruins, did Adrian locate the Guaynopa and/or the Guyanopita silver mines? Just curious at this point, but if the rheumatis medicine would work a bit better...

There should be little doubt at this point that my friend Real de Tayopa has successfully located and owns Tayopa; I salute you, you are an inspiration for us all! That being said, as he explained the mines associated with the name Tayopa actually cover quite a large area, several of the records of the Real list no less than EIGHTEEN mines associated with Tayopa, (some say 17) including placer gold, lode gold and lode silver. A find of any one of these is enough to set you up financially for life (assuming you can work it without being killed by outlaws) so for those brave enough there are still great mines to find. Supposedly local Indios still know the location of the placers but will not show them to outsiders. If I were a bit younger I would be heading there now! (ha ha) Besides, searching for a lost mine has a huge advantage over searching for a buried treasure - a buried treasure could have been found and recovered or simply MOVED. Mines don't get carried off or moved, and rarely are completely "worked out" as some have claimed about the LDM for instance.

Dang it but as much as I don't like to cast stones at a fellow treasure hunter, but Milton Rose takes the cake with me. By his account he found about every lost mine in the southwest and removed every bit of treasure in some cases, besides leaving vast fortunes behind in others. I like a good yarn like anyone but Rose is just too hard to swallow, plus I know from personal experience that one of his "finds" is NOT where he claimed he found it (P.C.). Maybe I am all wrong here and he was telling the gospel, but I just can't buy it.

By the way Joseph, I do hope that you will one day write the story of how you found Tayopa and publish it, no one else could tell the real story but you. You could make a fortune just off the story! 8)

Oroblanco

"By all means marry; if you get a good wife you will be happy, if you get a bad one you will become a philosopher." --Socrates

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HOLA ORO BLANCO: Sorry for the delay, but for some reason I haven't been back to the Tayopa thread for a while, apol..

The last that I had heard from Adrian was that he had not located them.

As for the original 18 mines, they all lie within a distance of 2000 meters from the capilla of Tayopa. There are many other mines in the surrounding areas which can also be legitimately be called "The mines of Tayopa". They lie in the mineral zone of Espobachi, which I have finally found.

Espobachi contains many mines and placers, plus few old Spanish mining towns, one of which is still basically intact according to my Indian informants. This area and the mining towns, have never seen a detector---hmmmmm?

While I enjoy Rose's stories, as I have said, aways take them with a tongue in cheek attitude. Unfortunately this also applies to my Guru of then, Frank Dobie. He never was at Tayopa, but the basis of his story is correct. The Map of Tayopa that he published in his book, is perhaps 98% correct - which in no way fits the Guaynopa zone.

Have no fear Oro Blanco, you will be a Tayopa sooner or later.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA my friend Real de Tayopa,
You know, if the area has never been hunted with a metal detector, there could be some very interesting finds waiting in the earth. We know the whole region has a very violent past with numerous Apache, Seri, Pima, Yaqui etc uprisiings and raids; added with the later battles, skirmishes etc from the French intervention, the Mexican revolution etc it seems a certainty that things of value would be hidden and secreted during the many periods of upheaval and possibly never recovered. Even things which we don't normally think of as "treasure" such as a case of old (but new when buried) rifles or revolvers etc could fetch a nice reward!

Even if a fellow were not interested in tracking down an ancient mine, the areas around where the old mines were is a rather promising place to go prospecting for previously un-discovered mineral veins. It would be a good idea to learn who owns the lands before trespassing though!

Got to git, will check back with you later....
your friend,
Roy - Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

after finding the tayopa i am still going back to pick up the missing pieces . it is my under standing that there is in fact 18 locations . the true number of mines was not recorded one by one . as in the LDM and the tayopa and the jesuit chruch sites the 3 i found and they are only recorded as one location by the jesuits own writeing ....i will have to leave the rest to you to figer out how many mines in all . but remember i told you this ahead of time ...and take into acount he dose nt count the LDM as one ....kino counts the 3 sites as one out 18,..... 17 left ....in writing on the trail stone ...

this can give us a better under standing of what the tayopa mine is and how valueable it is .....

often gold and silver are found in close locations to each other .and if the LDM is in fact as valueable as the dutchman stated it was this could give us a yard stick to the valueablity of the tayopa ..20 men millionars i could beleave the tayopa could make 50 - 60 men millionars , back in those days .....the tayopa mine shaft could be as long as 1 mile long by who knows how deep the shaft is or how many braches are made off the main shaft . but it was worked for as much as 10 -12 years and thousands of indains were taken to work in the mines if you beleave the indains statements ...

from the location i found i beleave the iron door was put in place to hold the indains in the mine.... you would not go to that much hard work puting a iron door here if it was not for a real good reason , but we also have to take into acount that montezuma spoke of a magic stone gateway . is he in fact talking about a iron door, that has a lock... what we see may not be their translation of what is .....

if we are to except that montezuma is in fact talking about this iron door than we must also beleave that yes behind that iron door may in fact be Aztec treasures that predate 1540 ....tell the great upriseing of 1680 ...

see i got to beleave this is a real close acount because my family crest was changed from red crosses to black in pre 1500 , and my family name was changed after the holly wars because we were one of the 6 oldist name in the history of England and yes my family were Knights of the templar ...and i was told the 3rd army of the templar became jesuits ... how do i know this . i have 3 black crosses on my family crest and a sable the semble for commander ...above is a rampant Wolf .. my great grand father many times removed and here in the states 17 times removed was the English Wolf , he was the black knight at the round table ...dont beleave me ,look up my family crest and read it for your self . my name is Lawton

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Blindbowman,

I am a little surprised that you have stated you found Tayopa in the Superstitions of Arizona. Most ancient accounts place the mission and group of mines (both gold and silver, quite a rich group actually) in Mexico quite some distance south of the Superstitions. Why have you concluded that what you have found is Tayopa, and not another (different) mission and group of mines? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

Greetings Blindbowman,

I am a little surprised that you have stated you found Tayopa in the Superstitions of Arizona. Most ancient accounts place the mission and group of mines (both gold and silver, quite a rich group actually) in Mexico quite some distance south of the Superstitions. Why have you concluded that what you have found is Tayopa, and not another (different) mission and group of mines? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

this may take a little time to explan . but what the hell ...
first off the peralta ruth map i say was made by the jesuit leader Kino . now for just a min beleave i am right ... the writen dirrection that Ruth had went with the Peralta ruth map . the dirrections did not have anything about the house in the cave . but julia thomas's acount from the dutchman dose . and it matches the peralta ruth maps . they refer to the house in the cave as a two room but a older acount by kino says he found 7 or 8 more house as large as a 4 story building.now are we to beleave that kino and the spainard moved in to this area with out converting the house in the cave to a chruch .... i think he did and the tayopa tunnle had a chruch acrossed from it , yet we only can under stand what Kino has told us . yet the indain have yet to tell the truth about anything with out trying to miss leed everyone ...

if kino made the maps for the spainish and the chruch and marks the tayopa chruch as a bell and it is the same place as i marked the house in the cave , it can only mean that kino made the house in the cave into a chruch for the jesuits or it was a indain chruch already .... the LDM has not moved from the first days that kino wrote about it ...and the tunnle was there at that time ... the chruch or house in the cave is in fact the only thing that did change other than the other two sites being coverd over .

are we to beleave that this man kino made these maps and both have the same data on them yet we are to beleave they are two diffrent place from what others have said ... i dont think so . the fact remains if kino was as smart as i beleave , missleeding people was a game for him ! no one found the mine in the sierra madre did they ?


and they never will ?..

kino knew it before he wrote the words at the top of the tayopa map . those words are in fact in code and they do not translate as the seirra madre , ma dre (ma and padre ) sub the pa for the dre and you have ma & pa .....where have you seen that before ? it stands for mary of the jesuits and the tayopa

are we to beleave that the 240 pack mules of gold and chruch treasure troves in the dutchman tunnle are not the jesuit treasure troves in the tayopa tunnle , yet the tayopa was stated as being a vastly rich gold and silver mine and the LDM a vastly rich gold mine . let use some common sence ....

and ask your self this if the mules were over loaded and some of the maps fell out of the packs they would have come from the tunnle at the LDM and where was those other stone maps found i ask you ! you get the idea by now i hope ...if i am right ,, in the tunnle is 4 large bells made of gold and silver and the rest of the treasure trove of tayopa .. i was adding up the weights and they are very close to 240 pack mules given some varation in load weights per mule . and remember the mules had long distances to go . they could not have been over load to much ...aand look at the mule shoe found by Clay worst ... it showed wear from long distances and was not locate at all . in good chance it was in fact mexican or spainish . it is just dum to think that out of a hand full of mule bones found in the back of a cave that just the only shoe found was from the dutchmans mule ,that is so far of a reach i would need a lot of drinking first to beleave that one ,,...

i could beleave that the mule bones came from one of the spainish mule trains and they would have came from northern mexico thus the wear on the shoes would be just about right and if you had a few dozen a few to die along the way or after geting there would be normal . they would have packed them the rest of the way for meat..

to beleave my translation of the sites you must go all the way and look beyond what we think we know and look at what is known and how it fits togather to other parts of the stories . ...as i was working on the dutchman i kept think half of this story looks to be missing , we i heard about the tayopa i knew it was the other half the first time i heard about it ...put the two legends togather and you have one big legend with all the details .. see thats where my eye sighting started me at the LDM and i wanted to see how it fit into the clues and next thing i know i got 3 sites and 18 jesuit treasure locations , after i could define who made the maps it was easy to put the pieces togather again .. KINO did in fact make these maps ...

if i am right the indains told kino when he first came to the sites that . "Azasazi or Ancient ones stands the seven golden cities had been ancient even in montezuma's time to the north of mexico ...and the pima legend says that montezuma brought his people to the superstitions ,there they had dwelt ever since , in the heart of the mts.

now is there more than one heart in the superstitions ? i only know of one .... and it said he brought his people . it did not say he was not being forced to bring them there by the spainish .. so we have to collect what we know . montezuma is in the superstitions in the heart of the mts . well i know where that is ......and if the spaiish did force him to bring his people here so they could make the work the mines . it would explan where montezuma's people went ....there is just tomany common factors for me to draw any other concluesion .... i know where the 3 sites are and the dick holmes acount states the was a round ring of stones a indain ruin , as well kino stated seeing older ruins in the area of the volcanic plow out . i know where that is , its very close to the dutchman pit . less than a few hunderd feet away .....


i can only beleave if the spanish took montezuma to the superstition that they took the treasures as well thus the iron door ....wwhat part did kino play in the indain's being used for mine workers .. good question i can draw a answer when i collect data from inside the tunnle and behind the iron door ... to know the answer to that question . but the spainish did stated they would convert them or kill them . i think kill them working in the mines , they were not dum spainards ...but look at the years it happened and what was happening in spain at the time and who was king of spain at the time this happend ...

this makes me think they working this mine alot more than we think they did ... they were still working it when it was lost , so thats a good sign it is not played out ! it may be far bigger than anyone knows or was lead to beleave ... the LDM was just in a location to hard to get to ....

beyond a reasonable dout i can not beleave there was two location and as i stated to the tonto nationial forst . if the tim Haydockin the lost jesuit gold of the sierra madre was truethe story is truthful and the town of Nacori could hear the bells of Tayopa and dogs barking on a still night . tayopa could not in anyway be in the sierra madre and could in fact be in the superstitions some 300- 400 miles away from Nacori...

if you can hear a bell ringing from the sierra madres from Nacori ,i would have to hear it to beleave it ! lol aand if thats not enough yet look at the bell found and melted , where was it found . you got it the sonoran border not near the sierra madre , why would you take something so heavy as a large bell all the way to the seirra madre why not just try to take is south to a sea port to ship out common sence tells me because it did not come from the seirra madre at all .it came from the superstitions at tayopa ....can we beleave a tunnle as big as the one at the dutchman has never been known ...maybe not by its real name of tayopa ...


just to much data to push aside to muchand to many common factors , knowing the locations i can under stand how they became lost and why ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Bowman: You missed an important clue - "sierra", Si & Ra, "Si "was to indicate Yes, it was an ancient working from one of the Lost tribes of Jews that were separated during the Exodus.. "RA" was to indicate where they came from, Egypt, since it is one of their important gods.

You are correct in that it was Kino, since "7" was special word for the Jesuits. It referred to the "7" lost mines of the Golden Triangle of that period, as well as to the lost tribe of the "7".. To confuse the issue, they seeded rumors that they were in Sonora. This has even confused Gollum, Oro, Djui, and myself among others. This caused me to lose valuable time looking for these fictitious mines in Sonora, sigh.

While I have never knowingly eaten mule meat, it was considered a delicacy by the native people of the region, you are correct again.

You also corrected a mistake on my part, I had originally thought that mule shoes could also wear out by numerous short local trips, thanks.

As for dogs barking? I had originally believed that perhaps there was an equivalent heavy side layer which could possibly reflect the sound to Nacori during the night, again thanks.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Mc Murphy: It took another Irishman to prove that Tayopa is not a myth, I now own it.

Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

if they do not give me my treasure trove permits by decmeber 4th i am going to post all of my reseach and data on 3 of the web sites ...

you will in fact get a chance to see these mines are real ....the Apache steped up and said "who do you think you are?" . and i told them . i am william the commoner . christ brother and they backed away ......

it is time the human race got to see what real power and weath is and what it can do ...!

walk on water , i think wisdom to see into the beyond is a far greater gift ... walking on ice is only a matter of timeing ...

will they try to make me rich or powerful ? maybe i already am....

 

[the blindbowman]

Hi Bowman: You missed an important clue - "sierra", Si & Ra, "Si "was to indicate Yes, it was an ancient working from one of the Lost tribes of Jews that were separated during the Exodus.. "RA" was to indicate where they came from, Egypt, since it is one of their important gods.

You are correct in that it was Kino, since "7" was special word for the Jesuits. It referred to the "7" lost mines of the Golden Triangle of that period, as well as to the lost tribe of the "7".. To confuse the issue, they seeded rumors that they were in Sonora. This has even confused Gollum, Oro, Djui, and myself among others. This caused me to lose valuable time looking for these fictitious mines in Sonora, sigh.

While I have never knowingly eaten mule meat, it was considered a delicacy by the native people of the region, you are correct again.

You also corrected a mistake on my part, I had originally thought that mule shoes could also wear out by numerous short local trips, thanks.

As for dogs barking? I had originally believed that perhaps there was an equivalent heavy side layer which could possibly reflect the sound to Nacori during the night, again thanks.

Tropical Tramp

..As for dogs barking? I had originally believed that perhaps there was an equivalent heavy side layer which could possibly reflect the sound to Nacori during the night,

good idea . but think C i bola ( see i bow , lie to god , lie to indain ) its in fact a large bowl and it acts like a huge speaker ...