The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Randawg72]

The directional instructions on the charts have always been a point of confusion. Among the strangest is written in the border of the workbox "key", or "skeleton" chart. Most commonly read as: "E Skeleton of Lεb". Which of course makes no sense at all.
I always thought that these words were probably the most pondered and also the most misinterpreted clue in all of Kidd's charts.

Considering the "Cave" and "Cliff" references on the Yunnan parchment, and that
some words are incomplete or missing, possible alternatives might be:

"East Side on side of CLiff"
"East Side of cave of CLiff"
"East Shelf in cave of CLiff"
or my least favorite..
"East Side in cave of Lεft"
Or...Any suggestions?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[ISmellGold]

So Captain Kidd never hid any treasure?

But we are to believe that a known fraudster named Wilkins drew some fake charts and hid them in furniture (disguising them as Kidd charts) that secretly lead to a different treasure hidden by a Spanish captain named Ubilla? And since a dead Admiral couldn't find this mythical loot, but left some cryptic clues carved on a monument, we should all drop everything and look for this substitute treasure instead?

Merriam-Webster defines Occam's razor as "a scientific and philosophical rule that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex explanations."

If this rule is true, why is it so easy for people to believe in hoaxes, frauds, secret ciphers, alternate treasures, curses, and conspiracy theories, but they refuse to accept that some guy facing criminal charges simply hid his money in a cave?

Probably not, but thats not to say any of his associates didn't. Heck I am not sure Kidd even got a trial in England. That the whole thing was a fabrication. The book and all. Some say that Kidd was hanged right there on a beach in North Carolina along with 2 accomplices by the men on an East India Company ship.

 

[Bocaj]

The directional instructions on the charts have always been a point of confusion. Among the strangest is written in the border of the workbox "key", or "skeleton" chart. Most commonly read as: "E Skeleton of Lεb". Which of course makes no sense at all.

20 feet E Skeleton of ... makes totally sense to me - its a marker!

I always thought that these words were probably the most pondered and also the most misinterpreted clue in all of Kidd's charts.
View attachment 2200695
Considering the "Cave" and "Cliff" references on the Yunnan parchment, and that
some words are incomplete or missing, possible alternatives might be:

"East Side on side of CLiff"
"East Side of cave of CLiff"
"East Shelf in cave of CLiff"
or my least favorite..
"East Side in cave of Lεft"
Or...Any suggestions?

"Leb" is unfortunately quite visible and the rest has to be seen together with the chart. Anyone's guess what it meant - maybe its old-English or French?

Treasures are mostly not found by maps in fact maps are a very rare feature. Most are found by a combination of text (sometimes coded) and markers.

A Skeleton carved into rock would make a good marker. I would rather think it to be a skull or skull and bones instead of a complete skeleton. 20 feet E of it would be the right place to start digging.

 

[Randawg72]

20 feet E Skeleton of ... makes totally sense to me - its a marker! A Skeleton carved into rock would make a good marker. I would rather think it to be a skull or skull and bones instead of a complete skeleton. 20 feet E of it would be the right place to start digging.

Just like in Treasure Island! Flint killed Allardyce and used his body as a compass marker pointing to the treasure's location. ...Very imaginative..

"Leb" is unfortunately quite visible and the rest has to be seen together with the chart. Anyone's guess what it meant - maybe its old-English or French?

So you think the word "Lεb" is correct as written, and we just have to figure out what in the world a Lεb is?

 

[Randawg72]

the whole thing was a fabrication.

Hi ISG,
So what's your stance on the "Flat Earth" theory?

 

[Bocaj]

Just like in Treasure Island! Flint killed Allardyce and used his body as a compass marker pointing to the treasure's location. ...Very imaginative..
So you think the word "Lεb" is correct as written, and we just have to figure out what in the world a Lεb is?

The only word that I know of is Hebrew meaning 'Heart' and I dismissed it as strange until I remembered that we have a few pirate-flags of the early 18th century presenting a skeleton a hourglass and a heart. I would not expect Kidd to use that marker but who knows?

 

[Randawg72]

The only word that I know of is Hebrew meaning 'Heart' and I dismissed it as strange until I remembered that we have a few pirate-flags of the early 18th century presenting a skeleton a hourglass and a heart. I would not expect Kidd to use that marker but who knows?

That's exactly it Bocaj,
Nobody knows for sure. The use of a skull or skeleton seems too fanciful and dramatic. Plus the "Jolly Roger" and other "skeleton" related pirate symbolism wouldn't be popular until the following century. One of Edmunds' interpretations is 'E...Stakes...of Lake'.

 

[Bocaj]

That's exactly it Bocaj,
Nobody knows for sure. The use of a skull or skeleton seems too fanciful and dramatic.

That's exactly where you are wrong because skull and bones and hearts were all commonly used on gravestones in the 17th century colonies.

So using it on a rock would be make it less conspicuous as whoever see it would think of someone buried there. Not everyone in that time would or could have a burial in a designated cemetery.

I guess = like that winged skull someone posted here - you will find many stones or rocks marked with those symbols that are simply graves.

In any case as you rightful mentioned there is no proven use of those symbols in piracy in the Americas before the begin of the 18th century.

So basically he marked it as a grave and of course buried the treasure quite a bit away from it so if someone still would dig just right on the spot he would find nothing.

One of Edmunds' interpretations is 'E...Stakes...of Lake'.

He probably came up with it to fit Oak island but I do not see it as a fitting solution. Confirmation bias is of course a feature everyone with its favorite island is suffering from. I do not know what he wrote but in general I see the Oak island searchers as close to what you would call them: 'flat earthers'

 

[ISmellGold]

Hi ISG,
So what's your stance on the "Flat Earth" theory?

?? The Kidd story is all over the place. Your talking late 1600's. Who is going to fact check a book inthe early 1700's? I think the whole account written about in the book could be a fabrication.

 

[BennyV]

That's exactly where you are wrong because skull and bones and hearts were all commonly used on gravestones in the 17th century colonies.

So using it on a rock would be make it less conspicuous as whoever see it would think of someone buried there. Not everyone in that time would or could have a burial in a designated cemetery.

I guess = like that winged skull someone posted here - you will find many stones or rocks marked with those symbols that are simply graves.

In any case as you rightful mentioned there is no proven use of those symbols in piracy in the Americas before the begin of the 18th century.

So basically he marked it as a grave and of course buried the treasure quite a bit away from it so if someone still would dig just right on the spot he would find nothing.


He probably came up with it to fit Oak island but I do not see it as a fitting solution. Confirmation bias is of course a feature everyone with its favorite island is suffering from. I do not know what he wrote but in general I see the Oak island searchers as close to what you would call them: 'flat earthers'

Grave maybe.

Buried in or near a grave. Not far fetched. Digging up a grave has been never been cool. Might have kept people away then and now.

 

[Bocaj]

Grave maybe.

Buried in or near a grave. Not far fetched. Digging up a grave has been never been cool. Might have kept people away then and now.

That gives me an idea: He could have used a fresh grave burying the treasure using the part where the dugout earth was build up. it would help to mark the spot and also hide the activity as whoever would come across the newly dig would assume it to be part of the grave.

When you bury treasure in the ground you need to hide your activity - depending which ground you use it could be a difficult task. Someone could see the traces of you work and ask himself what was hidden in the place? Extending a grave could really do the trick!

 

[Randawg72]

Buried in or near a grave. Not far fetched. Digging up a grave has been never been cool. Might have kept people away then and now.

Hi BennyV,
William Kidd was an upstanding citizen and a respected sea captain. He was not Long John Silver! While the grave theory is feasible, It's a little hard to imagine a grave in the back of a cave in the side of a cliff.

 

[BennyV]

Hi BennyV,
William Kidd was an upstanding citizen and a respected sea captain. He was not Long John Silver! While the grave theory is feasible, It's a little hard to imagine a grave in the back of a cave in the side of a cliff.

I’m not saying that this map is the end all be all. It could easily be fake. It’s just an idea I had.

 

[Bocaj]

Hi BennyV,
William Kidd was an upstanding citizen and a respected sea captain. He was not Long John Silver! While the grave theory is feasible, It's a little hard to imagine a grave in the back of a cave in the side of a cliff.

Why not? The grave itself doesn't need to be in the back of the cave (20 feet distance!) apart from that caves are used for graves, burial grounds!

 

[Randawg72]

Why not? The grave itself doesn't need to be in the back of the cave (20 feet distance!) apart from that caves are used for graves, burial grounds!

Opinion noted Bocaj,
I for one will be surprised if a grave or 'skeleton' marker is associated with or within proximity to the treasure's location. I feel that a simpler solution is far more likely.

 

[Bocaj]

Opinion noted Bocaj,
I for one will be surprised if a grave or 'skeleton' marker is associated with or within proximity to the treasure's location. I feel that a simpler solution is far more likely.

Simple for me means to take what is written and find the simplest explanation for it - your welcomed to find something better (but without reading something into the text that is clearly not there!)

There is also another solution: skeleton could refer to the general meaning of the word other than a biological skeleton - it could be the leftover of a construction or similar.

 

[Randawg72]

Simple for me means to take what is written and find the simplest explanation for it - your welcomed to find something better (but without reading something into the text that is clearly not there!)

There are clearly missing letters and words on that chart. The odd spacing proves it.
You are welcome to pretend there's not. That's why we call these suggestions 'opinions'.

(Note: A grave marked by skeletons, or a construction site are not the simplest explanations).

 

[Bocaj]

There are clearly missing letters and words on that chart. The odd spacing proves it.
You are welcome to pretend there's not. That's why we call these suggestions 'opinions'.

Yes there is an odd space and it is a possibility that there was something written there but for any other place there I would expect at least some small line or point. We don't have the original which is bad. But you should stay close to the letters we can read.

(Note: A grave marked by skeletons, or a construction site are not the simplest explanations).

A grave isn't market by skeletons - it is simply a grave (or just pretend to be one) that has typical (for that time) symbols on it. So it is quite simple if you are willing (and capable) to put your mind into the 17th century.

You will not be able to find anything without studying history or at least take the advice from someone who did. The 17th century is a very different place to where you live now.

In any case without being on the actual island its not very productive to discuss that issue. Other features deserve more attention as they are more fitted to find or confirm the general location. For example I still have not found a simple answer to why there are so different maps and the sequence they were created. Obviously assuming that they aren't totally fake...

 

[Randawg72]

For example I still have not found a simple answer to why there are so different maps and the sequence they were created.

The chronology of when the charts were found is (fairly) well documented, but nobody knows in what order they were drawn.
I think that Kidd probably drew the more basic charts first, and then he gradually added more detail and directional info as they evolved.
The chart below was found in the 'Hardy' chest in 1931. This is the simplest and least detailed of all the charts, and it is often overlooked and not even shown in some Kidd treasure books and websites.
Captain Kidd knew where his treasure was and he didn't need a map. I believe the later versions included more detailed clues to help Kidd's family find his stash as it became clear that he would not be returning to retrieve it himself.

Captain Kidd's forgotten chart

 

[Bocaj]

The chronology of when the charts were found is (fairly) well documented, but nobody knows in what order they were drawn.
I think that Kidd probably drew the more basic charts first, and then he gradually added more detail and directional info as they evolved.
The chart below was found in the 'Hardy' chest in 1931. This is the simplest and least detailed of all the charts, and it is often overlooked and not even shown in some Kidd treasure books and websites.
Captain Kidd knew where his treasure was and he didn't need a map. I believe the later versions included more detailed clues to help Kidd's family find his stash as it became clear that he would not be returning to retrieve it himself.

View attachment 2201962
Captain Kidd's forgotten chart

I do not know where the above map is from but this together with the Sarah W maps give almost no detail and still contain a cross marking the spot. Which tells me that the the intended receiver did know the island by its shape and orientation and also that the treasure was marked so the 'X' was all that is was needed.

in fact I think those simple maps were not drawn original by KIdd at all! He maybe made a copy of it as he was given that map by someone else (Avery?). He then visited the island and made a more detailed map (coral island map) that marked the original four stashes as thick points and then added a small cross to mark the spot he moved the forth part (neat) to hide it from whoever else could have known about Avery's treasure. He didn't buried it very far away from the spot he found it.

Later in jail he had plenty of time to remember all the small details and draw the 'key' map.

this is at least the simplest explication I can come up with. The one issue that Kidd could not have met Avery because Avery already left for Ireland when Kidd arrived. But Avery could have left the map with Sarah which would explain the 'by me Sarah W.' annotation!