The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Randawg72]

I have a great interest in the treasure "Lodged" by Captain Kidd. I believe the treasure exists, and that the "Kidd/Palmer" charts are authentic, and I do Not believe the treasure is located anywhere near the America's nor the China Sea. I may (or may not) have solved some of the clues in this 328 year old mystery, and am interested in the opinions and input of like minded treasure hunters.

 

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[sdcfia]

Here are several maps that resemble your island, from The Great Lost Treasure website.

 

[Randawg72]

I only believe the Kidd/Palmer charts were drawn by Kidd. Of those, you have shown three (albeit one is upside-down). Do you have an opinion of which island it could be?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Ahoy - I believe Wilkins drew those "charts" himself. He is a remarkably unreliable author.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Randawg72]

Ahoy - I believe Wilkins drew those "charts" himself. He is a remarkably unreliable author.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

In the book "Captain Kidd and his Skeleton Island " Palmer refused publication of the Kidd charts, so Wilkins drew his own. The charts that I posted never appeared in any of Harold T. Wilkins books.

 

[freeman]

In the book "Captain Kidd and his Skeleton Island " Palmer refused publication of the Kidd charts, so Wilkins drew his own. The charts that I posted never appeared in any of Harold T. Wilkins books.

They did,, you can find them shown in photgraphs in his books.. Here is WILKINS admitting he drew them to an associate via a postcard to explain what was going on.

He didn't publish this postcard in any of his books which is why you aren't aware it exists: he only published in his books what he wanted people to see AND THEN BELIEVE WITHOUT FURTHER CHECKING.

 

[Randawg72]

They did,, you can find them shown in photgraphs in his books.. Here is WILKINS admitting he drew them to an associate via a postcard to explain what was going on.

He didn't publish this postcard in any of his books which is why you aren't aware it exists: he only published in his books what he wanted people to see AND THEN BELIEVE WITHOUT FURTHER CHECKING.

View attachment 2179907

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. I assure you Wilkins had no photographs of Kidd's charts. The charts I referenced were unseen by the public until Hubert Palmer's death in 1949, and remained unpublished until they were eventually sold at auction in 1957.

(PS: Wilkins was shown the charts by Palmer. The infamous drawing that you attached was (horribly) drawn by Wilkins from memory).

↓Attached is a pic of the chart as shown in Wilkins book↓

 

[freeman]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. I assure you Wilkins had no photographs of Kidd's charts. The charts I referenced were unseen by the public until Hubert Palmer's death in 1949, and remained unpublished until they were eventually sold at auction in 1957.

(PS: Wilkins was shown the charts by Palmer. The infamous drawing that you attached was (horribly) drawn by Wilkins from memory).

↓Attached is a pic of the chart as shown in Wilkins book↓

Lol, nah.

You'll find them if you look hard enough; the photos of Hubert Palmer showing how he found the maps. You will see them there.

Wilkins also did a complete chapter about how to draw a fake treasure map. It's worth reading. A hint though it's not in the book you seem intent on.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. I assure you Wilkins had no photographs of Kidd's charts. The charts I referenced were unseen by the public until Hubert Palmer's death in 1949, and remained unpublished until they were eventually sold at auction in 1957.

(PS: Wilkins was shown the charts by Palmer. The infamous drawing that you attached was (horribly) drawn by Wilkins from memory).

↓Attached is a pic of the chart as shown in Wilkins book↓

 

[freeman]

Lol, nah.

You'll find them if you look hard enough; the photos of Hubert Palmer showing how he found the maps. You will see them there.

Wilkins also did a complete chapter about how to draw a fake treasure map. It's worth reading. A hint though it's not in the book you seem intent on.

Don't make the mistake of saying something doesn't exist just because you haven't seen it. If it does exist it then reveals the lack of research depth of the one asserting it doesn't.

I recommend also reading the chapter Wilkins wrote containing the instructions about how to draw a fake treasure map and then feeding it out to the gullible so they think it is real.

Said chapter is just not in the book your are relying on.....

 

[Randawg72]

Don't make the mistake of saying something doesn't exist just because you haven't seen it. If it does exist it then reveals the lack of research depth of the one asserting it doesn't.

I recommend also reading the chapter Wilkins wrote containing the instructions about how to draw a fake treasure map and then feeding it out to the gullible so they think it is real.

Said chapter is just not in the book your are relying on.....

My apologies Mr. Freeman. But is that all you got? One partial, faded and barely legible 'unauthorized' pic? You will agree that is hardly the photographic evidence of Kidd's treasure charts being introduced to the world as you made it out to be.
Harold Wilkins was a man of questionable character. But My discussion is about Captain Kidd and his hidden treasure, not Wilkins. If you want to dismiss the validity of Kidd's charts because Wilkins wrote a book about them I can certainly accept that.
If anyone else has an opinion on the location of Kidd's treasure, I would like to hear it.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Unfortunately, Wilkins is a remarkably unreliable authority. His treasure books, although popular back in their day, are full of errors and mistakes.

​

As for Kidd's treasure, what he plundered and brought back to the American Colonies was buried on Gardiner's Island - and dug up not long after it was planted.

[The legend states Kidd buried his Bible before he went to sea for the last time.]

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Anyone interested in the facts about William Kidd should start with Ralph D. Paine's classic Buried Treasure (1926). Paine found the "French Passes" buried in the British archives - the documents that could have set Kidd free. There is, of course, much more in this book than Captain Kidd.

Robert I. Nesmith has an interesting analysis of Kidd and the treasure yarns in Dig for Pirate Treasure (1958) - a book that belongs in every treasure hunter's library.

Captain Kidd and the War Against the Pirates, by Robert C. Ritchie (1986) is a first-rate account of the story.

Richard Zacks' The Pirate Hunter; The True Story of Captain Kidd (2002) is very well-researched and well-written. In his bibliography he wrote about Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island "Treasure trove of great documents, followed by inane treasure hunting theories."

The essential question about Captain William Kidd isn't where his treasure lies - there isn't any. The basic question is "Was he a pirate?" For the answer, I am partial to the children's book Captain Kidd's Cat by Robert Lawton.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Randawg72]

Unfortunately, Wilkins is a remarkably unreliable authority. His treasure books, although popular back in their day, are full of errors and mistakes.

View attachment 2180025
​

As for Kidd's treasure, what he plundered and brought back to the American Colonies was buried on Gardiner's Island - and dug up not long after it was planted.

View attachment 2180026

[The legend states Kidd buried his Bible before he went to sea for the last time.]

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

I don't use Wilkins books as reference material. His only contribution to Kidd's treasure story was to introduce the world to Hubert Palmer.

 

[Randawg72]

Anyone interested in the facts about William Kidd should start with Ralph D. Paine's classic Buried Treasure (1926). Paine found the "French Passes" buried in the British archives - the documents that could have set Kidd free. There is, of course, much more in this book than Captain Kidd.

Robert I. Nesmith has an interesting analysis of Kidd and the treasure yarns in Dig for Pirate Treasure (1958) - a book that belongs in every treasure hunter's library.

Captain Kidd and the War Against the Pirates, by Robert C. Ritchie (1986) is a first-rate account of the story.

Richard Zacks' The Pirate Hunter; The True Story of Captain Kidd (2002) is very well-researched and well-written. In his bibliography he wrote about Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island "Treasure trove of great documents, followed by inane treasure hunting theories."

The essential question about Captain William Kidd isn't where his treasure lies - there isn't any. The basic question is "Was he a pirate?" For the answer, I am partial to the children's book Captain Kidd's Cat by Robert Lawton.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

Good referrals. May I add "Kidd, the Search for His Treasure" by Edmunds, which contains the most accurate account of Kidd's charts and treasure.
Most people have heard of the small cachet that was buried on Jon Gardiner's Island June of 1699. This stash was retrieved about a month later by Governor Lord Bellomont's agents and used as evidence against Kidd at his trial. My interest is in the much larger treasure mentioned in the letter of May 12th 1701 to the Speaker of the House of Commons (then) valued at over £100,000 pounds.
With all due respect to you and "Kidd's cat", I'm convinced that this treasure does exist, and could still remain undiscovered.

 

[Randawg72]

"That in my late proceedings in the Indies. I have lodged goods and Treasure to the value of one hundred thousand pounds, which I desire the Government may have the benefit of. In order thereto I shall desire no manner of liberty but to be kept prisoner on board such shipp as may be appointed for that purpose and only give the necessary directions and in case I fail therein I desire no favour but to be forthwith Executed according to my sentence.”
Sir Y’r Unfortunate humble servant —William Kidd

 

[Crow]

It was not the first time he was claiming buried treasure?

Part of the Earl of Bellomont's letter discussing Captain Kidd's treasure (TNA, CO 5/1043). The National Archives, London, UK. below.

Crow

 

[Crow]

You can read Captain Kidd’s account of his capture of the Quedah Merchant. It was handed to Lord Bellomont on Kidd’s return to New York. Catalogue ref: CO 5/860 below

Crow

 

[Crow]

Kidd got in touch with Bellomont through a lawyer. He handed over evidence, including a statement and the ‘French passes’. This was a mistake. Bellomont, now anxious to distance himself from the project, had Kidd arrested and transported to London. He spent 1700 incarcerated in Newgate Prison before his trial at the Old Bailey on 8th May 1701.


Lord belemonts letter to Captain Kidd

Kidd defended himself against charges of murder and piracy. He pinned his hopes on the French passes, but they were nowhere to be found. Presumably, his opponents had concealed them. Researchers found the documents a few hundred years later in a Colonial Office volume at The National Archives.

The ‘French pass’ given to Kidd by the captain of the Rouperelle. Catalogue ref: CO 5/860

Crow

 

[freeman]

My apologies Mr. Freeman. But is that all you got? One partial, faded and barely legible 'unauthorized' pic? You will agree that is hardly the photographic evidence of Kidd's treasure charts being introduced to the world as you made it out to be.
Harold Wilkins was a man of questionable character. But My discussion is about Captain Kidd and his hidden treasure, not Wilkins. If you want to dismiss the validity of Kidd's charts because Wilkins wrote a book about them I can certainly accept that.
If anyone else has an opinion on the location of Kidd's treasure, I would like to hear it.

 

[freeman]

An astute person by now would be thinking 'Hmm, I was just shown something I said didn't exist. What else is out there then that I didn't know about? Maybe I should be circumspect in claiming things because there might be those who do have things I didn't know about and are watching me destroy my own credibility '.