The Solution Rest Here.....

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bigscoop said:
There is always the possibility that his death was manufactured, or faked. Not saying that's the case but it wouldn't be the first time. Back in the day this would have been much easier to pull off with proper advanced planning and perhaps a few key people in right places. To this day no one can prove Laffite's date or place of death, and this is just one of many that are still unknown/uncertain.

If you recall we had this same type of discussion a while back.
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Yes, we have, but it is still very curious that Samuel W Oakley and P Canterbury would makes claims against the estate of Beale Sr in 1824, and likewise, with C l Henderson in 1825. Who were these men, and what was the nature of their claim?
...and Celeste Beale, widow of Beale Sr, contested, in 1824, the will of Thomas Beale Jr.
Then there is Chloe Delancy and Others vs Celeste Beale.
The estate of Beale Sr and Celeste Beale were represented by John Randolph Grymes, the lawyer of Jean Lafitte, leads one to suspect the connexion between Beale and Lafitte.
The answers to these questions are in the records of the New Orleans courts and would provide an illumination to this Beale affair.
 

bigscoop said:
There is a very good chance, even likely, that your author told you exactly who he was when he pointed towards the western portion of the state. :thumbsup:
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That would lead us to Thomas Beale Jr, whose mother, Chloe Delancy, was from Botetourt county.
 

Jean Laf said:
I have documentation on Octavia Belae Born in May 3rd 1821 . Baptized Dec 8th 1822 .
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Yes, O.B. was born after "daddy" Thomas Beale, Sr. died in 1820. I have 1821 as YOB... OR! O.B. was "sired" by someone else... it was a REAL DRAMA!
 

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There is a book about the opium trade that details how the Beale's were synonymous with the opium trade. This book even goes on to claim that the Beale's planted their seed with intent wherever they traveled. So there were a lot of Beale's involved in the smuggling/trading of opium. Several of thee Beale's were also ship captains.

In the years leading up to his sensational bankruptcy, Thomas Beale of China, was very displeased at how the East India Company was handling that trade. Now all of this brings us back to our Thomas Beale who had only registered himself as being from China, this likely being the same Thomas Beale that the unknown author had alluded to in the pamphlet when he says that he suspected Beale was from some western portion of the state.

If all of this is true, or even remotely accurate, then the Beale family was something of a syndicate with various members being familiar with, and active in, the smuggling trade. This then brings us to the possible additional Laffite and Girard connections through New Orleans.

Girard, as it turns out, had his hooks in just about everyone, including Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe, to mention a few. Girard was also heavily involved with the French refugees and affairs in South America, China, Mexico, and the Texas region, all of this involving the various smugglers and their vessels. Somewhere in all of this lies the answer to this mystery.
 

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bigscoop said:
There is a book about the opium trade that details how the Beale's were synonymous with the opium trade. This book even goes on to claim that the Beale's planted their seed with intent wherever they traveled. So there were a lot of Beale's involved in the smuggling/trading of opium. Several of thee Beale's were also ship captains.

In the years leading up to his sensational bankruptcy, Thomas Beale of China, was very displeased at how the East India Company was handling that trade. Now all of this brings us back to our Thomas Beale who had only registered himself as being from China, this likely being the same Thomas Beale that the unknown author had alluded to in the pamphlet when he says that he suspected Beale was from some western portion of the state.

If all of this is true, or even remotely accurate, then the Beale family was something of a syndicate with various members being familiar with, and active in, the smuggling trade. This then brings us to the possible additional Laffite and Girard connections through New Orleans.

Girard, as it turns out, had his hooks in just about everyone, including Thomas Jefferson and James Monroe, to mention a few. Girard was also heavily involved with the French refugees and affairs in South America, China, Mexico, and the Texas region, all of this involving the various smugglers and their vessels. Somewhere in all of this lies the answer to this mystery.
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1817-1822...?
 

franklin said:
When did China become a Western Part of the State of Virginia? There was a Thomas Beale and a brother Leonard Beale born in Indian Town, Kentucky.
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Referring to the US cenus, where a Thomas Beale had only registered himself as being from China. A very suspect and curious event.
 

Rebel - KGC said:
1817-1822...?
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According to the information referenced, the Beale's were involved with the opium/China trade from around the turn of the century and for many years after. If this is true then it is almost certain that they were involved in other trade goods from time to time as well.

The problem arrives when trying to sort it all out, just not enough reliable info or official info that allows for tracking this activity or a specific Beale.
 

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Here's something that continues to bug me. The only references I've encountered of big money coming from the west to the east during the effected period are the timely references encountered in the Laffite Memoirs, these being in perfect chronological order with Adams Onis Treaty and the two Beale deposits.


However, after having researched piles and piles and miles of correspondences between suspected parties and other possible parties I have yet to encounter another “direct” reference in regards to this huge amount of money/wealth. Of the two suspected/possible references encountered one was from Joseph Bonaparte in a letter to James Monroe, dated 1829, and the other came from Baron Rigaud when he criticized Lallemand for his failure to distribute the funds to the survivors of Champ de Asile.


It just seems odd to me that with so much wealth at stake that it is apparently never referenced again? With the exception of the likely reference in the Beale Papers some sixty years later.
 

bigscoop said:
According to the information referenced, the Beale's were involved with the opium/China trade from around the turn of the century and for many years after. If this is true then it is almost certain that they were involved in other trade goods from time to time as well.

The problem arrives when trying to sort it all out, just not enough reliable info or official info that allows for tracking this activity or a specific Beale.
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Girard and also Patterson's Canton Co of Baltimore, both traded Appalchian ginseng to the Chinese for the opium. Someone in Virginia was the ginseng supplier.
 

franklin said:
Since TJB Sr died in 1820, he would not have been the TJB that buried the treasure in Bedford County, Va. All though TJB Jr. could have buried the treasures in 1819 and 1821 then died in 1823.
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YEP! 19, then 21 years old... from the WESTERN portion of the state (Fincastle, Va. area, where his momma lived...). Thomas, "Jr." Beale... Thomas J. Beale... TJB. COULD be our "guy"... burying WEALTH from New Orleans...? Taking guys from Fincastle, Va. "area", going "up" to St. Loo for "French Connections"; going down to Louisiana on BIG "Ole MUDDY"; back up to St. Loo, then "HOME" to "Virginny"... HEH!
 

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bigscoop said:
According to the information referenced, the Beale's were involved with the opium/China trade from around the turn of the century and for many years after. If this is true then it is almost certain that they were involved in other trade goods from time to time as well.

The problem arrives when trying to sort it all out, just not enough reliable info or official info that allows for tracking this activity or a specific Beale.
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There you GO!
 

bigscoop said:
Here's something that continues to bug me. The only references I've encountered of big money coming from the west to the east during the effected period are the timely references encountered in the Laffite Memoirs, these being in perfect chronological order with Adams Onis Treaty and the two Beale deposits.


However, after having researched piles and piles and miles of correspondences between suspected parties and other possible parties I have yet to encounter another “direct” reference in regards to this huge amount of money/wealth. Of the two suspected/possible references encountered one was from Joseph Bonaparte in a letter to James Monroe, dated 1829, and the other came from Baron Rigaud when he criticized Lallemand for his failure to distribute the funds to the survivors of Champ de Asile.


It just seems odd to me that with so much wealth at stake that it is apparently never referenced again? With the exception of the likely reference in the Beale Papers some sixty years later.
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In 1885...? Hmmm...
 

bigscoop said:
Here's something that continues to bug me. The only references I've encountered of big money coming from the west to the east during the effected period are the timely references encountered in the Laffite Memoirs, these being in perfect chronological order with Adams Onis Treaty and the two Beale deposits. ...

It just seems odd to me that with so much wealth at stake that it is apparently never referenced again? With the exception of the likely reference in the Beale Papers some sixty years later.
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...and it may "likely" happenstance or coincidence on the part of the "unknown author" that Ward acted as "copyright agent". or wishfull thinking on the part of one trying to make actual events into Beale 1885.
 

But here again, all of this Laffite/Beale info has been hashed out time and time again, searched and then searched some more with nothing new arriving from any of it. So unless some new pages in history show up it all still results in the same dead end.

One of two things needs to happen, either a new source of documented material has to be discovered, or, well, I guess there's only one thing that needs to happen in order to move forward.
 

In short...."new source material"..... something to shed some conclusive/decided/unarguable light on any of it. That's what has always been missing and that's what is needed.
 

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LETTERS written by TJB to RM, in the Beale PAPERS

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