The Rock Man

[deducer]

About three times the distance from the mine to the camp.

Marius, Waltz's "the rock that looks like a man," was destroyed by Barkley who admitted to it. He was upset that treasure hunters kept scattering his cattle and set out on destroying as many monuments and signs he could find.

 

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[Idahodutch]

Marius, Waltz's "the rock that looks like a man," was destroyed by Barkley who admitted to it. He was upset that treasure hunters kept scattering his cattle and set out on destroying as many monuments and signs he could find.

Deducer,
I too have heard this story, about The rock man getting destroyed.
I don’t believe the story is true. Barkley may have knocked down some things, but the rock man, according to the clues, can be seen from the trail ….. and the where of the object, is beyond a ridge, but visible from the trail below. The wording puts it BEYOND a ridge.
That is going to be a big rock man.

There are rock formations in a lot of places, and arguments with marfkmar over clues is useless. He just changes the wording to fit his spot. He proudly admits to it, as if it a feat of intelligence.

Because he openly changed the wording, we can deduce that he is not looking at the correct rock man.

For anybody to find the rock man, and have a chance for it to be the right one, it must match in to the trail of clues.

I have shown a photograph. Such a rock man, one that is located right in line with the clues, and even if I find the mine, it can’t prove which rock man is Waltz’s. I believe that 100%.
It is an argument for nothing. Speculation at best.

And markmar will just change some more of his (markmar’s) clues. 🫤

The rock man I found is pretty big, yet GE with all its great functions, does not always reflect the tru nature of rock formations. My rock man that shows up in a photograph just fine, is not distinguishable on GE.

That’s why I asked markmar for a photograph.
He made noise instead. 😂👌👍 (proof of zero)
End of story 👍

But that’s just my opinion 😁

 

[markmar]

Marius, Waltz's "the rock that looks like a man," was destroyed by Barkley who admitted to it. He was upset that treasure hunters kept scattering his cattle and set out on destroying as many monuments and signs he could find.

Deducer, if Barkley would destroy the right rock man, then he should has found the mine, has it?
The landmark is too big to can be destroyed without blasting it.

 

[markmar]

Idahodutch, the trail of clues is not correct because the clues are not in the correct order. Waltz mixed them up, I believe not intentionally. He confused the clues from the path to the mine from below with the clues from the path which would help to identify the camp location from above.
IMO, Waltz has been hallucinating when told the clues to Holmes, because the clues are popping up from one place to another, leaving out critical clues which were so easy to be told but somehow were too hard to be reproduced in his mind.

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch, the trail of clues is not correct because the clues are not in the correct order. Waltz mixed them up, I believe not intentionally. He confused the clues from the path to the mine from below with the clues from the path which would help to identify the camp location from above.
IMO, Waltz has been hallucinating when told the clues to Holmes, because the clues are popping up from one place to another, leaving out critical clues which were so easy to be told but somehow were too hard to be reproduced in his mind.

Like I said earlier markmar. You openly admit to rewriting clues. Now they are your clues, of your very own. 🥳🥳

I have to be right upfront here, I think Waltz’s clues work just fine, and that you’ve been making up clues. The reason is of no matter to me, only that you take liberties, and i cannot believe what you write about in these forums.

Like I said earlier, do what you want. If you post more made up stuff, maybe do like BB and make your own threads. Folk most likely will give you more latitude, if the made up stuff is kept to your own threads.

The rock man thread was originally for us to post pictures. and talk, it’s fine if you want you post a photograph of the rock man you found. You should have stopped there, instead of making stuff up 🤷🏼‍♂️

Folk have longer memories than you might realize. 🫤

 

[markmar]

Idohodutch, here are not " own " threads. All threads belong to the Tnet site and everybody have the rights to post freely and politely. What i wrote is related to the rock man clue which is the theme of this thread.
If i made things up or I have wrote the truth, it's something few people know.

 

[Idahodutch]

Idohodutch, here are not " own " threads. All threads belong to the Tnet site and everybody have the rights to post freely and politely. What i wrote is related to the rock man clue which is the theme of this thread.
If i made things up or I have wrote the truth, it's something few people know.

Hmmm,
I’m not your customer markmar. You’re wasting a sales pitch, on little ol’ me, and I’ll tell you straight up. I’m not buying anything you are laying out on the table.
I hope the best for you, sometimes, and this is one of those times.
Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

Hmmm,
I’m not your customer markmar. You’re wasting a sales pitch, on little ol’ me, and I’ll tell you straight up. I’m not buying anything you are laying out on the table.
I hope the best for you, sometimes, and this is one of those times.
Idahodutch

What I wrote was not addressed to you, per se. Was addressed to people who are interested to learn the truth. The truth is the truth, no matter how are you looking at it.

 

[Idahodutch]

What I wrote was not addressed to you, per se. Was addressed to people who are interested to learn the truth. The truth is the truth, no matter how are you looking at it.

I think you may need to talk to someone besides me, because you’re not getting it.
I don’t believe what you say. AT ALL!
I hope that is clear enough for you to understand and accept.

Mods,
How much longer am I or any of us, to endure markmar and his provocations. Making stuff up rewriting clues and calling it truth?? ?? ??

Just curious 🫤

 

[markmar]

I think you may need to talk to someone besides me, because you’re not getting it.
I don’t believe what you say. AT ALL!
I hope that is clear enough for you to understand and accept.

Mods,
How much longer am I or any of us, to endure markmar and his provocations. Making stuff up rewriting clues and calling it truth?? ?? ??

Just curious 🫤

Provocations only in your own mind. Prove I'm making stuff up and I will stop posting.

 

[Idahodutch]

Provocations only in your own mind. Prove I'm making stuff up and I will stop posting.

You forgot, you never get to hold the football for me ever again. 😂 Can’t be trusted to keep your word. 😳 what a bummer.
Your actions have consequences, as do mine and everybody else.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Members can disagree, but please do so by our rules, no insults, attacks or arguments, please keep it cordial.

Thread is open to all to post as long as posts are by our rules.

 

[deducer]

Deducer, if Barkley would destroy the right rock man, then he should has found the mine, has it?
The landmark is too big to can be destroyed without blasting it.

Marius, many of the real old timers knew most of the monuments and clues out there, they were much closer to knowing where the mine was than anyone today could ever hope to be except a very few.

The problem was that, as Waltz himself said, "you could walk right over my mine and miss it."

And his caches are much harder to find... a bunch of small cubby holes.

 

[Idahodutch]

Good morning Deducer,
I agree that the old timers had a better knowledge of the clues.
I’m pretty sure that it was Brownie Holmes that was hooked on rock man …. Thinking it would somehow reveal where the mine is.

The only way I can think of for that to have actually been true, is the rock man (the one I found) is located very near the region of the ravine/canyon/arroyo … which ever as I have heard many names.
Maybe it was a location verifier for Brownie?
That’s what the 4 peaks clue was for, but I get the feeling Brownie never saw the view of 4 peaks looking like one peak either.

People don’t like to believe it, but there are 2 mines, just as stated in Bick’s SF Chronicle article … Jan of 1895.

I used to only know of the one mine way up high. The one started by the Peralta, and used to have a Monumented trail leading to it.

Only after studying that 1895 article, in earnest, did I realize that there are actually 2. The one up high, the one he abandoned in favor of the mine Waltz started much lower in the ravine …. Approximately 400’ below the Peralta mine up above. I spent most of my search thinking there was just 1 mine.
It is the lower mine, the one Waltz called “ his mine” that is located not more than 200’ directly across the canyon, from his hidden camp.
You all are free to believe what you want, but I found the lower mine across of the hidden camp.

I was having heart issues and didn’t know it. All I knew was that I was having a hard time breathing, and practically zero energy.

There were 3 caches that Waltz spoke of. 2 smaller ones, hidden within the ravine/canyon and one big one piled on top of the mine directly across of the hidden camp.

It is only the cache on the lower mine that is still there. Waltz enlarged the opening a little and put logs across, crisscrossed, then the cache he put on top of that.
Then he spent a winter to cover over his mine, cache … all of it.
And you are correct, in that people can walk right on top and never know.
Waltz said many times that first the hidden camp must be found, if you want to find “his mine”

Waltz abandoned the upper mine on the first day…..
It’s the upper mine that he gave Holmes directions for.
And Julia Received directions for the mine below that’s covered up.

Unless I die before finishing, this search is about wrapped up.
I only intend to get samples. It makes sense that the one big cache on top of the lower mine is gold from the mine directly below the cache.

The two smaller caches , I think was what the Mexicans had dug out when Waltz showed up. The white quartz with gold and some silver, is from the mine up above.
Those 2 smaller caches were much easier to retrieve than the big one buried on top of “his mine”….. so over the years, he collected the 2 smaller ones.

The gold ore , according to waltz was not the same. The mine he buried up, is much richer than the Peralta mine, so said Waltz.

I have not been up to the upper mine, to see if it is still open.
If not, then probably no ore samples will be collected, unless there is a piece that slipped into a crack or something.

The lower mine (his mine) was buried using thousands of rocks.
Most about 1/2 the size of a bowling ball.

No digging or mining is needed to move loose rocks. 😁👍
Just a lot of work.
Once reaching the bottom of the cache, then it would be digging, which is frowned upon.

If you read through that article carefully, I think you’ll start to see things differently 🤷🏼‍♂️ I wasn’t tempted to change even one clue 😁
The clues are good.
It was no piece of cake though.
I saw the view of 4 peaks in 2009.
And finally found the remains of the hidden camp … I think it was 2021 🤓👌 then immediately went directly across the canyon, not more than 200’, and bingo 😁

Sincerely,
Idahodutch

 

[EDN]

EDN, why you believe the directions from the camp to the mine were kept secret? From what people know reading LDM clues, the mine is across the gulch from the camp and not more than 200 feet away.

Markmar,

I think the manuscript was written after Brownie's farther passed away and after searching a long time Brownie still couldn't find the mine. I believe at the time he was thinking if he wrote the manuscript and got it circulated people would find the rock house. He would find out about it. Then having kept the directions to the camp to the mine to himself, others wouldn't be able to find it. Walt buried and conceal the mine so others passing through couldn't find it. I'm not exactly sure why, but Brownie had a change of hart in the end and didn't want to have the manuscript published. It's hard to speculate why, it could have been for multiple reasons. One could be the manuscript had more information than he wanted to divulge but, others having the information before he could retract it, decided to deny even writing it. I think there is enough evidence out their that supports he wrote the manuscript. However, the version(s) that have been circulated, could and probably do, contain miss information or embellishments by those who published the manuscript. I would love to see Brownies original hand written manuscript. Someone probably has the original manuscript and knows the actual final directions to the mine. We will probably never know what those are until they find the mine and decide to publish that information.

Anyway good luck.

PS: 200 feet x 3 = 600 feet to the Rock Man? The directions to the mine and this distance to the Rock Man still don't make sense to me. Could you provide some rational or pictures of the Rock Man you found?

Thanks,
EDN

 

[markmar]

Markmar,

I think the manuscript was written after Brownie's farther passed away and after searching a long time Brownie still couldn't find the mine. I believe at the time he was thinking if he wrote the manuscript and got it circulated people would find the rock house. He would find out about it. Then having kept the directions to the camp to the mine to himself, others wouldn't be able to find it. Walt buried and conceal the mine so others passing through couldn't find it. I'm not exactly sure why, but Brownie had a change of hart in the end and didn't want to have the manuscript published. It's hard to speculate why, it could have been for multiple reasons. One could be the manuscript had more information than he wanted to divulge but, others having the information before he could retract it, decided to deny even writing it. I think there is enough evidence out their that supports he wrote the manuscript. However, the version(s) that have been circulated, could and probably do, contain miss information or embellishments by those who published the manuscript. I would love to see Brownies original hand written manuscript. Someone probably has the original manuscript and knows the actual final directions to the mine. We will probably never know what those are until they find the mine and decide to publish that information.

Anyway good luck.

PS: 200 feet x 3 = 600 feet to the Rock Man? The directions to the mine and this distance to the Rock Man still don't make sense to me. Could you provide some rational or pictures of the Rock Man you found?

Thanks,
EDN

EDN, Brownie and his father, were not the only persons who knew the directions from the camp to the mine. For sure Waltz has told Julia Thomas and Riney Petrasch about these directions, and i believe they were the reason we know today about the "... across the canyon from the mine and not more than 200 feet afar.. " clue.

It's what i wrote, if the clues in the route told by Waltz to Dick Holmes would been complete and in the right order, then would been a matter of few days for Holmes in finding the mine.
And if the 600 feet from the mine to the rock man, don't make sense to you, then I can't do something for this, not even if I wanted to. This is the distance and it can't change at everybody's will.

I also believe Waltz was exaggerating by concealing so good his mine. Maybe he did that to protect the mine from the elements and not to be hidden from someone who would walk close by. To walk someone close by would been one in a billion possibility, and maybe this was the reason the Apache left that vein uncovered when covered the inclined shaft.

Another accurate clue to Waltz's mine, is the route depicted in Julia's map ( Robert Blair version ), from the three pines to the mine. That part of the map is depicted in a bigger scale than the rest of the map, but is an exact image of the route that someone has to follow in regards to find the mine. The three pines are lined to and under the rock man landmark, as a point of reference.

 

[markmar]

Marius, many of the real old timers knew most of the monuments and clues out there, they were much closer to knowing where the mine was than anyone today could ever hope to be except a very few.

The problem was that, as Waltz himself said, "you could walk right over my mine and miss it."

And his caches are much harder to find... a bunch of small cubby holes.

Deducer, what Waltz told was to give an image of how well the mine was concealed. That fact doesn't means someone would walk over the mine ever.

 

[Cubfan64]

Marius, many of the real old timers knew most of the monuments and clues out there, they were much closer to knowing where the mine was than anyone today could ever hope to be except a very few.

The problem was that, as Waltz himself said, "you could walk right over my mine and miss it."

And his caches are much harder to find... a bunch of small cubby holes.

I agree with Deducer - knowing the things, places and clues actually passed down by word of mouth from some of the earliest folks to search out there and looking at where the first searchers looked is about the best you can do to try to get into the general area. From there, imho it's more than likely a matter of luck and geological knowledge that will find a source of gold.

The amount of "Markers" and things people believed to be markers, locators, signs, etc... that have been destroyed, removed, moved, etc... since Waltz died is immeasurable imo, not to mention "fake" signs and clues planted to focus attention elsewhere. Heck, the amount of dynamite used to blow crap up out there in the mid 1900's alone is proof that plenty of stuff isn't the same out there as it was when Waltz was alive.

If people don't believe that, they're just being naive (again, imo). Treasure Hunters are well known for their distrust of anyone - even their own partners in some cases.

 

[markmar]

I agree with Deducer - knowing the things, places and clues actually passed down by word of mouth from some of the earliest folks to search out there and looking at where the first searchers looked is about the best you can do to try to get into the general area. From there, imho it's more than likely a matter of luck and geological knowledge that will find a source of gold.

The amount of "Markers" and things people believed to be markers, locators, signs, etc... that have been destroyed, removed, moved, etc... since Waltz died is immeasurable imo, not to mention "fake" signs and clues planted to focus attention elsewhere. Heck, the amount of dynamite used to blow crap up out there in the mid 1900's alone is proof that plenty of stuff isn't the same out there as it was when Waltz was alive.

If people don't believe that, they're just being naive (again, imo). Treasure Hunters are well known for their distrust of anyone - even their own partners in some cases.

Cubfan64, i agree with what you wrote about markers and signs. The earliest folks who searched for the LDM had the original markers and signs in the field that would help them in their research. But only these.
The clues which they knew in regards to find the LDM, were specific to every person or every group depending on the source they have received them, so their research was determined by the amount of clues somebody knew.
Now we know all the clues, from all the sources, so the possibility the mine to be find is bigger than in the past. Of course ( always imo ) there are clues from different gold sources which were mixed with the first and accurate LDM clues, making the research harder and adding a lot of confusion in the searching process
IMHO, nobody can find the LDM following the routes told by Waltz, because the reasons I have mentioned in my previous posts. The other clues about position of the mine in regards to the Military trail, camp and other landmarks are accurate, but to validate them , someone has to find the mine first.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Fellow Dutch Hunters,

Jacob Waltz's directions could not be more precise, if you follow them, the rock man is exactly as he described. Yes it is big, as it can be seen poking over the point of a brushy ridge. He even said he rode up to it, and worked with his pick on the eyes, nose and mouth. His clues can be used to verify other clues.
Many say Waltz was wrong, on some of his clues. I don't believe this to be true. I say it was those quoting him, who got some clues mixed up. May have been Dick, or Brownie Holmes, or Julia Thomas, or Rinehart Petrash, or anyone else.
I could touch on many clues that can be cross checked with other of Waltz clues to prove them right, or wrong. But this is about the rock man clue. The clue that says the rock man is 200 feet across the canyon from the mine is not real. It was a mix up of clues. That would place the mine in a slot canyon. Remember the mine is high on a mountain, it would need to have another high mountain just 200 feet away. The 220 feet clue is about something else, not about the rock man. "The rays of the setting sun, shine into my mine, through a break in the mountains, and glitters on the gold." This clue also tells you there is no rock man 200 feet directly across the mine.
Waltz gave many clues of his mines location, but many have mixed them up to fit their finds.

Homar