The present plan

[bigscoop]

You're looking at thousands of pounds, when in fact it would have only been a few hundred pounds, if they used a few teams of work animals.

I'm thinking it still would have been the same "thousands of pounds" no matter how you divide it all up, which in itself brings about yet another issue, the number of pack animals required, plus the number of personal transportation animals required, etc. Point is simply this, no matter how one wishes to look at it, all of the accumulated real world details cancel out any chance that these grand adventures were anything like the simple adventures that they were narrated to have been. Obviously there would have been "a lot" of pre-planning and prior arrangements involved, this only becoming more evident as the number of required pack animals, wagons, horses, ox, supplies, trade, steamboats, etc., continues to increase in order to make the grand adventures, "more possible." Just saying.....perhaps things were a lot more challenging and time consuming then they might otherwise appear at routine glance.

 

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[Old Silver]

I'm thinking it still would have been the same "thousands of pounds" no matter how you divide it all up, which in itself brings about yet another issue, the number of pack animals required, plus the number of personal transportation animals required, etc. Point is simply this, no matter how one wishes to look at it, all of the accumulated real world details cancel out any chance that these grand adventures were anything like the simple adventures that they were narrated to have been. Obviously there would have been "a lot" of pre-planning and prior arrangements involved, this only becoming more evident as the number of required pack animals, wagons, horses, ox, supplies, trade, steamboats, etc., continues to increase in order to make the grand adventures, "more possible." Just saying.....perhaps things were a lot more challenging and time consuming then they might otherwise appear at routine glance.

All I can say is, do the math and find out. I did.
No one said any of this wouldn't have been challenging. I don't think any wagon trip to the west, at any point in time, has not been challenging, yet they were not only possible, but they clearly happened.

 

[bigscoop]

Sorry, but we'll just have to remain at a difference of opinion based on our different paths of research and math, etc. I'm still 100% convinced, that as a whole, the entire tale of the grand adventure was impossible as described, and for many reasons.

 

[ECS]

Sorry, but we'll just have to remain at a difference of opinion based on our different paths of research and math, etc. I'm still 100% convinced, that as a whole, the entire tale of the grand adventure was impossible as described, and for many reasons.

If one reads the journals of Lewis & Clark, John C Fremont, Zebulon Pike, Kit Carson, and E F Beale, one would understand the point being made by Bigscoop. This was hard travel without being loaded down with gold and silver.

 

[bigscoop]

The point I was making with the whole deer cart example was simply this, by themselves wagons weighed several hundred pounds. Not too difficult to pull over flat ground by something like and ox or horse, but put that wagon, even an empty one on even a modest grade and the weight is compounded, this only continuing to increase depending on the steepness of the grade. Also, the larger the wheel, which goes over rough terrain much better and much easier, the easier it also becomes for that wagon to start pulling back as the weight is shifted by the grade. Obviously then, this same shifting of weight also applies going down hill, the increase in leverage and weight now belonging squarely to the wagon and not the ox or horse. So what I'm saying here is that in both situations there were common methods for dealing with these grades, none of them being quick or easy to accomplish. Now toss in rough ground.....so I'm thinking, given the terrains in the region, "wagons" weren't a part of the journey.

 

[ECS]

Also fording rivers and streams with heavy loads would be problematic an it would slow down the travel time.

 

[Old Silver]

Also fording rivers and streams with heavy loads would be problematic an it would slow down the travel time.

And no travelers ever did that, right?

 

[Old Silver]

The point I was making with the whole deer cart example was simply this, by themselves wagons weighed several hundred pounds. Not too difficult to pull over flat ground by something like and ox or horse, but put that wagon, even an empty one on even a modest grade and the weight is compounded, this only continuing to increase depending on the steepness of the grade. Also, the larger the wheel, which goes over rough terrain much better and much easier, the easier it also becomes for that wagon to start pulling back as the weight is shifted by the grade. Obviously then, this same shifting of weight also applies going down hill, the increase in leverage and weight now belonging squarely to the wagon and not the ox or horse. So what I'm saying here is that in both situations there were common methods for dealing with these grades, none of them being quick or easy to accomplish. Now toss in rough ground.....so I'm thinking, given the terrains in the region, "wagons" weren't a part of the journey.

I'm thinking maybe ox carts. Smaller, lighter. It's all just as a possibility anyway.

 

[ECS]

Are ox or oxcarts mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers?

 

[Old Silver]

Are ox or oxcarts mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers?

Transporting treasure is mentioned. And I don't think they meant that they carried it on their backs.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Are ox or oxcarts mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers?

I think you are out of ammo, just the fact that you just said that line tells me you are not much of an historian .

 

[TN_Guest1523]

The point I was making with the whole deer cart example was simply this, by themselves wagons weighed several hundred pounds. Not too difficult to pull over flat ground by something like and ox or horse, but put that wagon, even an empty one on even a modest grade and the weight is compounded, this only continuing to increase depending on the steepness of the grade. Also, the larger the wheel, which goes over rough terrain much better and much easier, the easier it also becomes for that wagon to start pulling back as the weight is shifted by the grade. Obviously then, this same shifting of weight also applies going down hill, the increase in leverage and weight now belonging squarely to the wagon and not the ox or horse. So what I'm saying here is that in both situations there were common methods for dealing with these grades, none of them being quick or easy to accomplish. Now toss in rough ground.....so I'm thinking, given the terrains in the region, "wagons" weren't a part of the journey.

Someone who knew how to get a lot of heavy items moved to were they needed to be . A Captain from a war possibly !

 

[ECS]

I think you are out of ammo, just the fact that you just said that line tells me you are not much of an historian .

Just of many things not mentioned in the Beale expedition part of the story which leads to assumptions to be made by the unwary reader, as has been demonstrated on this thread and others.

 

[Old Silver]

Just of many things not mentioned in the Beale expedition part of the story which leads to assumptions to be made by the unwary reader, as has been demonstrated on this thread and others.

I agree. It's demonstrated every time someone says, without proof, the Beale story is just a dime novel, conspired by an extended family group.

 

[ECS]

It always leads back to members of this extended family, which also included the Harts, far beyond happenstance and coincidence to be mere possibilities.

 

[Old Silver]

It always leads back to members of this extended family, which also included the Harts, far beyond happenstance and coincidence to be mere possibilities.

Yeah, you've said that. Then you said this:

Just of many things not mentioned in the Beale expedition part of the story which leads to assumptions to be made by the unwary reader, as has been demonstrated on this thread and others.

 

[ECS]

The creators (except for the "unknown author"), the copyright holder and publisher, printer, advertiser, and seller of the Beale Papers would not be mentioned in the narrative text of the job pamphlet novel.
So what "possible" point are you attempting to make?

 

[Old Silver]

The creators (except for the "unknown author"), the copyright holder and publisher, printer, advertiser, and seller of the Beale Papers would not be mentioned in the narrative text of the job pamphlet novel.
So what "possible" point are you attempting to make?

The part about assumptions to be made by the unwary reader, as has been demonstrated on this thread and others.

 

[franklin]

It always leads back to members of this extended family, which also included the Harts, far beyond happenstance and coincidence to be mere possibilities.

I know of at least two families and their kin searched for the Beale Treasure before the Job Print Pamphlet (They were not kin to the extended family) and still search today. Wonder how they obtained their information?

 

[ECS]

The part about assumptions to be made by the unwary reader, as has been demonstrated on this thread and others.

You talking about the ox carts, mine shafts, Texas iron mine, 87 oz of crystalized flake gold on display in the Carbondale Bank, steamboats, or the myriads of Beales that have been proposed to be "THE BEALE" of the job pamphlet dime novel?
Remember, the bottom line to this treasure tale, is that it is a Virginia treasure tale that was created, copyrighted, printed, published, advertised, and sold by Virginians in Lynchburg.