The Peralta Stones

[Javaone]

In addition there are two small symbols present,the "omega sign" to the right of the "1751" and slightly above those,a symbol that looks like a distant bird depiction as seen in many paintings and drawings.It could also be a reference to a double hill type formation.

Regards:SH.

SH, those "omega Symbols" could also represent a "place/destination" - they could work well with your theory.

Jerry

 

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[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

I know BB is going through some hard times, as he has just lost his brother and all should give him a break.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Anyway Back on Topic """"Peralta Stones"""" 1847 Any Questions

 

[Twisted Fork]

Bill,
I think it would be easier to just post the info on the constellation instead of trying to give the impression of superiority.
You may discover that it hasn't changed very much in the last 700 years.

Perseus (Greek: Περσεύς),[note 1] the legendary founder of Mycenae and of the Perseid dynasty there, was the first of the mythic heroes of Greek mythology whose exploits in defeating various archaic monsters provided the founding myths of the Twelve Olympians. Perseus was the Greek hero who killed the Gorgon Medusa, and claimed Andromeda, having rescued her from a sea monster sent by Poseidon in retribution for Queen Cassiopeia declaring herself more beautiful than the sea nymphs. "Golden Boy"

This is indeed a format of old. Someone with knowledge of Mycenae and it's layout including a cone shaped peak in the area, might make it all click as an overlay in Arizona.

Where you slobber over a 69' Chevy SS today, these boys were true stone cutters and the thrill would come to life in the visions of the stonework of old. This is the format reference I mentioned a time or two before. Someone is getting very warm. Good find bro.

 

[Blindbowman]

i know your kind ,, and i ant falling for your sweet talk, first they want to hold your rocks then they want to get in your mine ,,,,ya i know your type .. lol

 

[Blindbowman]

i have a 4 speed sag with international track master shift with a hurzt T crip in my burn ,,the 396 3 speed were a good set up too..

got love the mopar big blocks ...


ya that mines real...

 

[somehiker]

[mod] OFF TOPIC[/mod]

 

[Cubfan64]

[mod]OFF TOPIC[/mod]

 

[somehiker]

[mod]OFF TOPIC[/mod]

 

[Cubfan64]

SH - I've been thinking more about your recent alidade/plane table theory. I know it's just a theory, but the first thing that popped into my head was something called the "Salazar Survey" which occurred in the Superstitions.

Here's a link to a little more information. I have more I can send you tonight when I get home - it just struck a chord with me when I saw what you were working on.

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=226&start=0&hilit=salazar

 

[Springfield]

Any thoughts of the Priest being a manifestation of Perseus?

It's a similar pattern but not a close enough match (IMO).

Your concept is, however, brilliant. Star patterns are the ultimate permanent maps. As few as three stars in a specific constellation must be identified first. With three stars chosen (target is #1), two ground-based markers must be identified/positioned correctly to be able to triangulate to the target. A permanent natural landmark could, say, be used for star position #2, leaving only one additional clue to complete the pattern. Position #3 could theoretically be another landmark, a rock carving, some sort of land or vegetation alteration, etc. Simple, when you know which constellation and which of its stars to use. A coded map could be easily be assembled to include the correct information needed for recovery, along with any number of additional phoney clues - even linked to dummy clues in the field - to confound someone trying to decypher it.

Things are seldom as they seem to be.

 

[Springfield]

..... I had,in the beginning considered the possibility that the stones were relics of the Peralta era.The "1847" as a date seemed plausible,therefore.The only problem for me was the question as to why it was there,both on the upper map stone as well as the H/P stone.Why carve a date on a map that was not intended for publication? .....

Exactly. If this is intended to represent a date, it greatly moves these stones into the 'prank' catagory for me.

Keeping the "1847" in mind as possibly a range calculation,I then turned to the Stone Crosses.A "1751" is prominently carved at the bottom of the cross that also bears the dual inscriptions "EL TESORO"....(tes..ORO) and "EL CUEVA".....

If you were putting together a treasure map, would you put the word 'treasure' (el tesoro) on it? I wouldn't.

 

[Blindbowman]

you have no line of horizon

you can not shot a celestial star lines without a line of horizon ..

i could have told everyone this , before i was interrupted .

 

[Blindbowman]

..... I had,in the beginning considered the possibility that the stones were relics of the Peralta era.The "1847" as a date seemed plausible,therefore.The only problem for me was the question as to why it was there,both on the upper map stone as well as the H/P stone.Why carve a date on a map that was not intended for publication? .....

Exactly. If this is intended to represent a date, it greatly moves these stones into the 'prank' catagory for me.

Keeping the "1847" in mind as possibly a range calculation,I then turned to the Stone Crosses.A "1751" is prominently carved at the bottom of the cross that also bears the dual inscriptions "EL TESORO"....(tes..ORO) and "EL CUEVA".....

If you were putting together a treasure map, would you put the word 'treasure' (el tesoro) on it? I wouldn't.

well stated ..

and very true ...the stone crosses are not part of the set ...

 

[Springfield]

you have no line of horizon

you can not shot a celestial star lines without a line of horizon ..

i could have told everyone this , before i was interrupted .

Balderdash. We're not navigating, we're reconstructing point (star) relationships. You only need a relative azimuth and a relative altitude from a fixed point to construct an arbitrary star map. If you can't see a true horizon, you use a relative or artificial horizon. Simple technology, simple instrumentation - been available for centuries.

-----Simplified even further - see Post 3040 below.-----

 

[Blindbowman]

you have no line of horizon

you can not shot a celestial star lines without a line of horizon ..

i could have told everyone this , before i was interrupted .

Balderdash. We're not navigating, we're reconstructing point (star) relationships. You only need a relative azimuth and a relative altitude from a fixed point to construct an arbitrary star map. If you can't see a true horizon, you use a relative or artificial horizon. Simple technology, simple instrumentation - been available for centuries.

where did he get the altitude from .. ?

the readings would be nothing more then guess and very random at best ... this was not the 3 wise men ..

artificial horizon , this theory has been tried over and over ,, ,and it is still a theory for a good reason ..

if he used a magnetic north he would have had to have a inclination for that given area and the hemisphere variation to correct the very basic of readings this is why celestial navigation dose not work very well even if he was able to create at artificial horizon,,, and that s why i pointed out the artificial horizon line on the heart stone .. in thoery it looks good . but in reality it well not work with any real accuracy..., that s how i knew the line on the heart stone is not a artificial horizon line ......any good sea navigator would tell you the same thing

 

[Blindbowman]

you do not need to take my word for it .. go ahead and try .. i have shot over 40,000 star & sun lines ,, i do know what i am talking about ...

you want to try go ahead .. i wish the best of luck .. you do not need star lines to read the stones .. you need to brake the code and you need all the pieces in the right order ...the code tells you what order to put them in and when to move them and when not to ,, with out the code translated .. you can not read the stones

i don't care if you watch every star in the night sky it will not change that fact ...

i was just pointing these factors out too you .. by all means .. i am interested in what your doing .. keep trying what can it prove ..?

 

[Springfield]

you do not need to take my word for it .. go ahead and try .. i have shot over 40,000 star & sun lines ,, i do know what i am talking about ...

you want to try go ahead .. i wish the best of luck .. you do not need star lines to read the stones .. you need to brake the code and you need all the pieces in the right order ...the code tells you what order to put them in and when to move them and when not to ,, with out the code translated .. you can not read the stones

i don't care if you watch every star in the night sky it will not change that fact ...

i was just pointing these factors out too you .. by all means .. i am interested in what your doing .. keep trying what can it prove ..?

OK, let's make it even simpler. All we need is angles between stars.

Below, the first diagram shows the angles you need to measure between stars A and B (Angle 1), A-C (2) and B-C (3). Any number of instruments from precise to homemade can be used.

Next, draw Star A on paper with Angles 1 and 2, lines extended (diagram 2). Move the B-C line across the Angle 1-2 lines, anywhere you like as long as you keep Angle 3 correct. The triangular model is now duplicated, the distances are adjusted when you find the corresponding markers in the field. Simple as pie.

That said, remember that whoever figures out which are the correct stars will surely have the appropriate star map in his pocket to begin with. If not, he can recreate what he needs as shown.

 

[Javaone]

Any thoughts of the Priest being a manifestation of Perseus?

It's a similar pattern but not a close enough match (IMO).

Your concept is, however, brilliant. Star patterns are the ultimate permanent maps. As few as three stars in a specific constellation must be identified first. With three stars chosen (target is #1), two ground-based markers must be identified/positioned correctly to be able to triangulate to the target. A permanent natural landmark could, say, be used for star position #2, leaving only one additional clue to complete the pattern. Position #3 could theoretically be another landmark, a rock carving, some sort of land or vegetation alteration, etc. Simple, when you know which constellation and which of its stars to use. A coded map could be easily be assembled to include the correct information needed for recovery, along with any number of additional phoney clues - even linked to dummy clues in the field - to confound someone trying to decipher it.

Things are seldom as they seem to be.

Thanks Springfield, Brilliant? Well... OK

One thing that you said is "along with any number of phony clues" and another is "things are seldom as they seem to be". <- My point about these comments is that you are right. With that said I doubt that they would have made an exact replica of Perseus, They would have disguised it a bit. Such a clue they would not want to make too obvious... 8)

Jerry

 

[Oroblanco]

As promised, some pix of our own from the Superstitions (except one, which was funny) just to show that Beth and I have in fact 'bin dere, done dat' - though NOT using the stone maps nor the various markers, for reasons posted earlier.

http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa43/oroblanco_2007/Superstitions Arizona/

Sorry but this is all that we have been able to salvage (so far) our best photos are largely ruined but if we can find the negatives it may be possible to get reprints and then post. I only have a moment but will be visiting this evening, to our moderators sorry if this seems too far off-topic, just delete it.
Roy ~ Oroblanco