The Peralta Stones

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Joe, my coffee? Side thingie, you posted -->

I also believe they show Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars. That gold was removed sometime in the mid-sixties. The people who created the Stone Maps knew where all these things were. They also knew there was nothing left, or worthwhile, at any of the sites they showed on the maps
*************************

And 'when' were the stones supposedly first found? Hmmm.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Blindbowman]

bb,

"CJ i hate to see you guys fighting with the stones .. scott says there fakes .. what do you think .. i know out right they are not ..i know how many people have tryed to brake them down they can not be read that way .. i will not explain yet but .. i am 100 % sure of my translation of these stone .. , i used them to locate something on the stones and it is there .. i can show you it it real . not just guessing ."

I don't mind telling you what I think, but the evidence is slim. I am fairly certain that the Horse/Priest stone was created to confuse the issue on the trail maps. I have never given them any serious thought whatsoever.

The trail maps are another matter. They do point to specific landmarks in the Superstitions, to the exclusion of any other place. I know there are people who claim they are maps to here or there or anywhere except the Supe's but, IMHO, they are wrong. While I don't believe the Stone Maps lead to any treasure today, that does not mean they don't show where treasure once was. They also show existing, old, mines or prospects.

I also believe they show Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars. That gold was removed sometime in the mid-sixties. The people who created the Stone Maps knew where all these things were. They also knew there was nothing left, or worthwhile, at any of the sites they showed on the maps. The maps were created to scam people out of their money which, IMHO, also applies to the Latin Heart and the Stone Crosses.

I still like to talk about the Stone Maps, and see the evidence that is constantly unfolding, but I am out of the hunt. It was a great adventure for over forty years, but that part of my life is over. I hope you find what you are seeking. My personal opinion is, that you have already.......right here.

One thing I wanted to ask you. What methodology did you use to break the Jesuit code? Can you decode this: Klizzie, shi-da, wol-la-chee, lha-cha-eh, be-la-sana, dibeh-yazzie, moasi, tse-nihl, nesh-chee, tse-nihl, ah-jad.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

back to this reality

i will brake it down some so we on the same page some what



CJ:"I am fairly certain that the Horse/Priest stone was created to confuse the issue on the trail maps. I have never given them any serious thought whatsoever."

BB: very true , with out all the parts the code is broken and none of its peice have any value beyond that point..
the stone was design to be read when fliping it over and over bottom to top ..so that both side of the stone can be read at the same time ...

CJ:"The trail maps are another matter. They do point to specific landmarks in the Superstitions, to the exclusion of any other place."

BB: all the stones have a dirrect meaning and focus , just because the focus is not a given location in the supers . dose not mean it dose not detail what is there and that at times the details and the location dirrects are linked by the code . brake the code and the data is isolated from their shared means

CJ:
"I know there are people who claim they are maps to here or there or anywhere except the Supe's but, IMHO, they are wrong. While I don't believe the Stone Maps lead to any treasure today, that does not mean they don't show where treasure once was. They also show existing, old, mines or prospects."

BB: " the stone do fit the supers out right .. i can not says if they share the locations of 18 minas but i can says the piedad is coded on the horse stone and dose locate . i am not focused on other mines at this piont . but may after
so yes it dose list and locate at lest one other mine besides the ma pa
may is remind you of " three minerals of the world "

CJ : I also believe they show Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars. That gold was removed sometime in the mid-sixties. The people who created the Stone Maps knew where all these things were. They also knew there was nothing left, or worthwhile, at any of the sites they showed on the maps. The maps were created to scam people out of their money which, IMHO, also applies to the Latin Heart and the Stone Crosses.


BB:
thats was not there true meaning but times change and so do the cultures of the modern world and its realities.. the greed of the culture that seeks , will find or share it greed with the surround chi ... here is a good exsample of it ...it takes on a nature of its own being ...we feed it and rise it tell it turns on us like a wild cat ...anyone that dare enter dose so at their own risk ..

greed will destroy the vissel that holds it

CJ:I still like to talk about the Stone Maps, and see the evidence that is constantly unfolding, but I am out of the hunt. It was a great adventure for over forty years, but that part of my life is over. I hope you find what you are seeking. My personal opinion is, that you have already.......right here.


BB:
very ture , yet this legend is like the cookie jar ...smelling the cookies and wanting to eat them . are to be enjoyed as much as the smile on ones face after ..if you take all the cookies there will be no one left to share them with ...

you have shared a lot cookies in your days and those who ate them remeber your gift . you remind the when you real want something .. i think you will soon want again . so the hunt is still shineing in you ,....



BB: sorry i did not notice you worded this as a secound question ..

also applies to the Latin Heart and the Stone Crosses.

i have looked at these but there are not part of the true set and thus it would be risky to retry to relate them after the facts ..

let me explain . the latin cross is or is not a fake . do we know at this piont ,, if the heart stone had a inner stone that could be removed then , why ..
to flip it over and replace it with another inner heart


k we can see a logic reason the heart insert was made . ok were there any reasons to translate data to latin .. yes there was ..

that would mean the latin heart is not one of the true set , it is a after thought..it maybe in fact real or fake at this point the confussion is already at a high level and we are trying to limit confussion . thus i chose to set the latin heart aside till the main set of stone were fully decoded , will i add them in time . that would depend on the focus of the stones and if i reach out that far when the set is translated ..so if the latin heart is fake or real dose not matter at this point .

i do question if the priest ayt Sanata ana spoke latin ..i do not think these stone were some kind of coin machine bring your heart and read the news of the day ..i see little to no logic in why the latin heart was made ..

if the latin heart was made after the set of main stones then why ?,... why not at the same time ?
and for who were they made ? thats the 3 question rule ... if you ask 3 or more questions then its most likely un related .. the best discription of the stone and work related to them i have seen was at jim hatts site . as i stated they were not and are not a focus in my research . i would throw them out . but they are clearly not dirrectly part of the main set of stones as the same can be stated for the stone crosses ..

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

"my best guess at this point would be a a indain pray of some kind , very old prair from a older tribe chiff"

I thought you would find some familial familiarity with what I wrote. Surprisingly, you are nowhere close. It's actually pretty difficult because it's a single word/name. That means that frequency analysis can't be used. If I had written a complete message, that kind of analysis would also be useless.

I will give you some big clues........It's the name of an island, and the obvious methodology would be to determine the language of the code.....first.

It can't be as difficult as the Jesuit code, nor take as long to decipher.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Ellie---

Your analysis and adventures are getting interestinger and interestinger.

I've followed most of this thread, but there is one part I still can't get my mind around. According to your research and observations, the horse map matches the particular topo which you posted; and it certainly does match up. It seems to me that the odds of this being a just a coincidence are pretty high. And if you add to that, the gnome with the hat (the priest), it gets astronomical.

The big question that jumps out at me is: Was the horse map made to match the topo, or was the topo made to match the horse map?

-----

Here is what I am puzzled about---

If the horse map was made to match the topography, delineating the trails and so forth; then how in the heck did they know exactly how all that stuff was laid out? If this stone map was made by whoever worked the mines, and all they had was line-of-sight mapping, how could they possibly get it so accurate with all the hills or mountains in the way of their sightings? Also, it seems like they would have had to have spent more time surveying than than they spent actually mining, ya know what I mean?

And if the topo was made to match the horse map, then what did they do, hire a bunch of people to go out and walk their mules for months, to make the trails to put on the map? That doesn't make much sense, I don't think.

-----

So, do you have any idea why the topography and the horse match up as well as they do?

Even considering that it was only that one edition of the topo which emphasized the horse head with darker lines, as you mentioned, the whole thing is really strange, I think. Does it mean that the maps were then made some time around the printing of that particular edition of the topo, and planned together with, or by, the topo maker? And that is the same person or group who buried the treasure(s)?

I think it's all really strange.

But the darned horse is there. And it appears that the priest is, too.

 

[Blindbowman]

i wish i had more time to spend on it .. but origin plays a part in most coded , if you have no idea who made it then 50% of your chance of solveing it is gone alreay , but you already knew that or you would not have ask the question to start with IMHO ..

no harm, no fowl

its funny you care more about a reply on unrelated to the topic ..

motives are often a reflection of opportunity..

so you said ..? I have never given them any serious thought whatsoever.

that was your biggest mistake IMHO

what if i told you the key to all the stones and their meanings is so simple it is right in front of everyone and no one sees it ...a simple joke but very effective

i will say the stones are all based on the number 7

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

"its funny you care more about a reply on unrelated to the topic ..

motives are often a reflection of opportunity.."

You have made many claims of expertise on this Forum. The latest is that you are an expert code breaker. (Jesuit Code) In order to gauge the reliability of your conclusions, which baffle me, each of your claims should be verified, as best as possible. Since you claim to have broken the Jesuit Code, engraved on the Stone Maps, shouldn't we test your expertise, or would you have us accept your qualifications blindly?

Can you, briefly, explain the methodology you used to break the Jesuit Code?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

bb,

"its funny you care more about a reply on unrelated to the topic ..

motives are often a reflection of opportunity.."

You have made many claims of expertise on this Forum. The latest is that you are an expert code breaker. (Jesuit Code) In order to gauge the reliability of your conclusions, which baffle me, each of your claims should be verified, as best as possible. Since you claim to have broken the Jesuit Code, engraved on the Stone Maps, shouldn't we test your expertise, or would you have us accept your qualifications blindly?

Can you, briefly, explain the methodology you used to break the Jesuit Code?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

I used my own M&R logic code and the new PPL profiling system

the logic code is based on the principals and fundamentals of reflection . cause and effects . logical actions and reactions
based on possibilities ,probabilities and logical sequences ..the profiling system too the body index of any person in the case and build a list of all possibilities ,probabilities that surround their person in each event related to them ..
to reenact a set of sequence that could then be put in the most logical time line isolating the true sequence of data that constructed the event in question ..

all sequence were then listed and the most logical parts of those sequence were used to define the closest most logical over all patterns that could reenact the evidence as it is known ..

in all evidence and there are a group of isolate able facts .. groups like body index ,environments , conditions ,time line . normal reaction , limits of reaction , unknown possibilities,probabilities and over all radius of of surrounding evidence dispersal rates and ratio vs elapse time line ..
our own opinions and reaction maybe our own worst enemy base on the facts and sequences that construct a event vs where the event takes place and why ...

the physical nature of the environments and conditions , may in fact change the logical perceptions of people with in a given vents .why some events may have a controlling time line other are undefined by the laps of time verse the environments and conditions . when we fully under stand the logic that surrounds each sub particles . we can construct a far more clear and stable insight into the sequences that led up to the event and took place after the event in question

with these insights we can then have a better idea of the persons reactions and their reacts to the environments and condition of the event area ....

each event has a cause and the reactions of any principal with in the event zone that can effect the reactions of other factors with in that zone

action reaction only covers the cause and effects why reflection principals can cause chain reactions of sequence that can alter our insights from the true nature of the event in question ..and the logical reasoning of the principals with in the area ...

two people set down to talk , one drinks a beer , has the talk taken the same path and sequences it would have if the person had not drink that beer ,, no thus one persons actions effect on others without direct physical contact .. the same basics surround all event . weather we see them or under stand them or feel them .. there effects are always there and . when we under stand these logics and sequence and what causes them and why . we under stand the evidence that has been cast off surround a given event and the chain reaction of those isolated particles of evidence..


if waltz hugs his donkey dose that effect where and when he drinks his water .. yes ..

its called unseen relationship and isolation principals

 

[Blindbowman]

see CJ its not what questions you ask .. its what people think of you and why you ask ..you ask me not because you care about my research and my new profiling sysyetm .. you care less about that or me .. your reason is clearly surrounding you and each question and why you would ask it and what you hope to learn .. in reaction to this , how i answer and why .. its like setting the hook and waiting . you have no idea if the fish will bit .. but why your watching the fish .. he swims away ..will you get up and go home or run out of time before you catch him . will the fish move on and find better feeding area ..maybe the fish come there to watch you ,and see your reactions ...

in the sequence the fish can swim past and leave you setting their holding your stick ...


" thats why we invented conservation "

at 65 you most likely already knew that ...

and you know i found something or you would be trying to catch the other fish in this pond or you would be fishing a nother pond

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB: you could have put that description in three sentences and actually said more. However, my question is 'how do you set up a profile on a person that has been dead for some 400 years with no discrete data to profile him with' ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

Many thanks for your reply. I ask those questions to see if the genius that you probably once were, can still come out and play now and then. The lack of a coherent answer as to your methodology was expected, but the interest lies in seeing if you can Google something that is challenging.

The answer to my "code" question can be found on pages 199 and 200 of Simon Singh's excellent work, "The Code Book: The Science of Secrecy from Ancient Egypt to Quantum Cryptography". If you don't have the book, you could just Google the first few Navajo words of the code.

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

EE Thr stated:
Ellie---

Your analysis and adventures are getting interestinger and interestinger.

I've followed most of this thread, but there is one part I still can't get my mind around. According to your research and observations, the horse map matches the particular topo which you posted; and it certainly does match up. It seems to me that the odds of this being a just a coincidence are pretty high. And if you add to that, the gnome (not my gnome) with the hat (the priest), it gets astronomical.

The gnome to my knowledge is not used for this depository; it was used to locate the depositories in Adamsville.

The big question that jumps out at me is: Was the horse map made to match the topo, or was the topo made to match the horse map?

A. Selection Technique;

The topography of the area was selected by the architects before any type of map work was even started. This applies to both maps; the 1900 Florence Topo and the stone maps. See aerial view below and with a little time and use of your imagination you will be able to identify the horse's head and neck. This primary technique is used to initially create every SARA whether on the ground in the field or in this instance it is used to create and design a symbol on a map. Step “B” will be addressed in next post. I have a time issue to deal with.

Later,

Ellie Baba

 

[Ellie Baba]

EE Thr also stated:

Here is what I am puzzled about---

If the horse map was made to match the topography, delineating the trails and so forth; then how in the heck did they know exactly how all that stuff was laid out? If this stone map was made by whoever worked the mines (the architects did not work in the mines), and all they had was line-of-sight mapping, how could they possibly get it so accurate with all the hills or mountains in the way of their sightings?

Heliograph Stations. Also, it seems like they would have had to have spent more time surveying than they spent actually mining, ya know what I mean?

Heliograph Stations: A heliograph (Greek: Ἥλιος helios, meaning "sun", and γραφειν graphein, meaning "write") is a wireless solar telegraph that signals using Morse code flashes of sunlight reflected by a mirror. The flashes are produced by momentarily pivoting the mirror, or by interrupting the beam with a shutter. The heliograph was a simple but highly effective instrument for instantaneous optical communication over 50 km or more in the late 19th and early 20th century. Its major uses were military, survey and forest protection work. Remember the U.S. Army was dealing with the Apache in Arizona starting in the year 1886.

See map depicting Heliograph Stations below.

And if the topo was made to match the horse map, then what did they do, hire a bunch of people to go out and walk their mules for months, to make the trails to put on the map? That doesn't make much sense, I don't think.

Step B.

All of the place names mentioned on the 1900-02 Florence Topo map in the area where the horse's head is located had already been in existence since 1865.

Will be back with more soon.

EB

 

[Ellie Baba]

EE Thr statement, cont.

So, do you have any idea why the topography and the horse match up as well as they do?

The combined efforts of The Group; architects, stone map makers, Florence Topo, U.S.G.S. government employees, heliograph operators, surveyors and a myriad of other support personnel belonging to different secret society organizations involved with keeping the depository treasures and caches safely hidden and protected.

Even considering that it was only that one edition of the topo which emphasized the horse head with darker lines, as you mentioned, the whole thing is really strange, I think. Does it mean that the maps were then made some time around the printing of that particular edition of the topo, and planned together with, or by, the topo maker? And that is the same person or group who buried the treasure(s)?

Yes, you are correct in your assumption.

I think it's all really strange.

But the darned horse is there. And it appears that the priest is, too (I don’t think so).

Time to kick back and get some rest my friend. I hope I answered your questions satisfactorily.

Ellie B

 

[EE THr]

Ellie---

Yes, you answered in greater detail than I expected, and I thank your patience and explanations.

Your research is seeming to show possible alignment with theories and possibilities, which others on here have expressed, as to the origin of the treasure.

Do you have an idea as to where it came from?

 

[Twisted Fork]

Hi All,

Below you will find a map; Accompanying Commissioner Bartlett's Letter to the Secretary of the Interior, dated "Santa Rita del Cobre, August 8th 1851." See page 148, Senate Ex. Doc. 119. _ 32nd Congress, 1st Session.

Just west of Arispe you will find the 32nd degree Longitude west of Washington. Today this is usually known as the 110th Longitude. The stone map architects knew of this historical fact because they had initially caused such a fact to exist.

We are dealing with the 33rd degree longitude which today is known as the 111th degree longitude.

The anomaly of the 33, 33, 33 and 33 still exists as common knowledge. Were you all aware of this fact?

This is very important and relative to solving the stone maps.

Time for bed,

Ellie Baba

In another spread or span of view, one might add....the entire group chain of 5 placements of scale. 320 miles, 32 miles, 3.2 miles, 3,200 feet and 320 feet or paces key. Mapped from three approaching angles of direction as in triangulation.

Mystical 5 is often upside down and or invisible, capable of any direction but loyal to only 1 true path in itself. The witch is a large shadow that falls upon a stone face; that is, once you get beyound the "Black Mountain"

 

[Blindbowman]

BB: you could have put that description in three sentences and actually said more. However, my question is 'how do you set up a profile on a person that has been dead for some 400 years with no discrete data to profile him with' ?

Don Jose de La Mancha

do we have any past on him
who was he
what was he
where was he born
is there any back ground on him
did anyone one know him directly or in directly
did he have any friends
what was his body index .
what physical structure were they is there any thing in the related data that gives us any idea of how fasr this person could walk or where he walked or how far he walked in a given time line
how much ore did he carry in the legend and how far did he carry , it ..
were there any stories that described him in any detail
what is the avg body index of people from his race in the same profession ,
what was the rates of other people in his profession in the same time line
did he describe any acts that what out line his physical nature

the list goes on and on , questions you have no idea relate to the over all insight

profile people in his race & profession 400 years ago and then fit his body index into that scale .

 

[Cubfan64]

BB - results are only as good as the data that goes into profile programs. The fact of the matter is, there's SO LITTLE documentation regarding Jacob Waltz that can be verified that there's mostly no way to tell what's true and what's not, so how do you decide what goes into the computer program as a profile?

I'm not denigrating profiling to solve mysteries, but I don't see any way at all for anyone to know they're accurately profiling Jacob Waltz or the Peraltas for that matter - at least not enough to narrow down the location of the Lost Dutchman Mine.

 

[Blindbowman]

BB - results are only as good as the data that goes into profile programs. The fact of the matter is, there's SO LITTLE documentation regarding Jacob Waltz that can be verified that there's mostly no way to tell what's true and what's not, so how do you decide what goes into the computer program as a profile?

I'm not denigrating profiling to solve mysteries, but I don't see any way at all for anyone to know they're accurately profiling Jacob Waltz or the Peraltas for that matter - at least not enough to narrow down the location of the Lost Dutchman Mine.

there is way more to the collection of data then you think ..

see waltz was a body index of a man his age and height and weight . but body index goes far beyond that ..if we know his age of death we can detail his past physical nature

we can then compare that to some one of his age group and someone his race .. there is a fulcrum point between the outer scale and the inner scale .. we isolate that fulcrum and we find the distance of a person the weight between 135-165 lbs in avg health and find out how far they can hike under the avg conditions & environments of the same area .. if we can not isolate the area then we take a set of readings and isolate that avg and then compare it to that reading .. it will not be 100% but we can also take multi readings and avg them ..

 

[Cubfan64]

BB - results are only as good as the data that goes into profile programs. The fact of the matter is, there's SO LITTLE documentation regarding Jacob Waltz that can be verified that there's mostly no way to tell what's true and what's not, so how do you decide what goes into the computer program as a profile?

I'm not denigrating profiling to solve mysteries, but I don't see any way at all for anyone to know they're accurately profiling Jacob Waltz or the Peraltas for that matter - at least not enough to narrow down the location of the Lost Dutchman Mine.

there is way more to the collection of data then you think ..

see waltz was a body index of a man his age and height and weight . but body index goes far beyond that ..if we know his age of death we can detail his past physical nature

we can then compare that to some one of his age group and someone his race .. there is a fulcrum point between the outer scale and the inner scale .. we isolate that fulcrum and we find the distance of a person the weight between 135-165 lbs in avg health and find out how far they can hike under the avg conditions & environments of the same area .. if we can not isolate the area then we take a set of readings and isolate that avg and then compare it to that reading .. it will not be 100% but we can also take multi readings and avg them ..

We'll just have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Sure you can average multiple readings, but again the results are only as good as the data that goes in. We have a saying in my profession that I'm sure you've heard, "garbage in, garbage out." What sort of accuracy and variability can you document in your results?

Considering there isn't even a photo of Waltz that can be agreed upon and documented that it's him, I just don't see how you can do what you're trying to do BB, but best of luck to you I guess.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

"Considering there isn't even a photo of Waltz that can be agreed upon and documented that it's him, I just don't see how you can do what you're trying to do BB, but best of luck to you I guess."

bb bragged to his friends some time ago about what he was trying to do here. As I read his posts, it's obvious, at least to me, he has not changed his mind......That assumes he is even capable of changing it.

It seems the Stone Maps has run out of pertinent things to discuss. The only thing left is the history of it all.

Take care,

Joe