The Peralta Stones

[somehiker]

Two Hearts, the Sacred Heart and the Immaculate Heart of Mary,are a Jesuit Theme.
There are two hearts,one at the beginning and one at the end of the trail depicted on the Stone Maps.
One near Twin Buttes,the beginning, and one at the end,opposite a large heart shaped mound of broken rock and dirt.
Both are complete,not half and not three quarter,but complete.
Both are situated on hillsides and are of similar size and construction.
The number "4",as used in a religious context can mean "earth"
The carved heart on the Priest Map has a "4" within it's border.
Standing on top of that mound,looking to that second heart-
-faint echoes of "Dies Irae" may remain for those that can hear them.

Regards:SH.

 

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[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

Having been raised in the Catholic Church, I have heard "Dies Irae" many times. Your linking it to the Jesuit Order is nebulous at best. It is more closely related to the Franciscans, as it was one of their Order who composed it. In the final analysis, it is Catholic.

Linking the mention of the heart in "Dies Irae" is somewhat akin to linking the mention of the heart in Shakespear to the Stone Maps. If I were to compare the two, side by side, I would come down on the Shakespear side of the debate, as it is much closer in relation to the Stone Maps.

You are thinking well outside the box here, and I can appreciate that approach. My own efforts have always been much simpler and direct, but that's just who I am. KISS was created for Joe Ribaudo. If that were not true, I would have no theory at all.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

my brother is still with us and wanted to return , still dose . but as of yet his condition limits his chances to return , the reason he was spiting up blood at the top of the mt that day was 3/4 of the back side of his heart was no longer working 75 % blockage . he is very very lucky .. we took time to let him catch up . an if he had pushed it any more that day he most likely would not be here now .. i still have all my photos and i am going to work this case with a new tool .. i have been designing a new type of PPL profiling system to define details in unsolved serial killer case,, my profiling system is 7 for 7 so far and is like no other profiling system known ..the system collects data and defines it in to possibilities probabilities and logistics..

with this custom computer designed to run this system i can define any related data to things we had no idea were related at all ...we can take the body index of the people in this case and define how they got there and who put them there and why ..

i hope you give me a chance to work the case with out the debates .. i found a hooked X at one of my sites and i had no idea what its meaning was back then ..

the reason i believe the stones are confusing is simple .. the stone were copies of two other groups past work Jesuit got the main drawings right , but even their own translation was off a little . they had copied it from native American tribe codex that recorded the events of the 1362 Templar expedition .. we had no idea that expedition had coverd the area it did thus no one knew the Templar had gone that far .. but the system they use to mark their movements is intact and is defind just to them ..

i still stand by my findings . Crystall stold the stones from a San Anna church, the chruch had collected odd stone work found threw out the area and other areas near by sent objects to them for safe keeping ..this is why they also recorded the details of other mines in the area ..

at one point the land clam was under the control of the Peralta family and we all know the basic details after that point ..

the stones were copied to Spanish translation ..the person or persons that copied them ,took the details from the Jesuit copies who coped them from native tribes that told the story of the Templar expedition .. i know it lost some detail in translation .. thats what makes them confusing

i believe the details of the stones are not fakes . they are copies 2 or 3 time removed .. but out right not fakes . and i will be willing to prove this after my test are run with the PPL profiling system .

i believe a mistake has been made .. the Templar expedition listed 7 main leaders of the knights were on that expedition and one died on the east coast , he was the step brother of st Clair , one of the most defined leaders of the Templar order .. the 6 have never been found , till now !, i am trying to find details of the tribe that saw the Templar in 1362 , but the recorded history of that tribe is far less then i had hoped ..but we do have the skill level and other defining data from their navigator and they do match the details of the stones ..i will not give out the details of how close i am . but i will say i was correct in how the details define their coarse and directions ..

the heart has another meaning . it stands for where they made their camp site or home site


it did not make any real scene till i learn that ...

the fact the 6 Templar have never been found and here we have 6 grave markes

tells me they are here somewhere near the chicomoztoc caves .. and when you under stand the details it starts to make logical patterns . they took these new unknown people to the oldest chiff they knew of at the time .. the stone may be from the 1847 dating but where copies of much older copies ..the best details still come from the codex of near by tribes in the area ..we may see what looks like odd data but when its put in the correct order and sequences is has meaning that we can not see at first sight ...

the confusion of dating the details from the stones vs who could have made them . is a matter of what part of their translation you believe is most accurate , this is what makes the stones more confusing ...

crystall put the stone there because he misread there meaning ..he did not think he could take them with him so he puts them away for safe keeping in case he needs them again . but he as many others finds death in his path ..

the church had good reason to keep the stones hidden . the Templar had a standing land clam in those stones recorded data even if the stones were not the first copy of the data ..

if i am correct . the Templar expedition ends here at chicomoztoc .. why i can not say yet .. but they made it to this location i am sure of this ...

"one at the beginning and one at the end of the trail depicted on the Stone Maps."

yes you are correct and if the hearts do show they camp sites of there expeditions we now know a detail we did not know before ..

if you remember i showed you a fade sword standing upright on the cave wall i found , the missing Templar leader's grave was marked the same way , a sword standing up right ..

now we know how the navigated threw the area ..there is no question about it .. no matter how many times the data is coped . it is Templar . the math dose not lie , it is in the details

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

Welcome back. Sorry to hear your brother is not doing better.

Six can be applied anywhere in Catholic history. It could be referring to Pius VI and his "Auctoream fidei" Bull, if you like the year 1794 in your Stone Map theory. It could also refer to the six followers of Ignatiius of Loyola, who founded the Jesuit Order with him in 1534.

For me, I would go with the six sister cities of Cibola. In this theory, my own, the heart would represent Cibola and the six engravings on the back of the heart would be the six sister cities. In total you would have the "Seven Cities of Gold". It fits......so to speak.

On the other hand, your theory sound good as well.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

i dont think the 7 cities had anything to do with the stones . this dose

the rune stones mark the path of their expedition the same manner as the Peralta stones . who made them real no long matters .. we know they copies of a much older data ..

now the navigation skills and skill level do matter ..the stone work is a matter of stone working skills but that only relates to the person that made the stones not what they were copied from ..i do not think the person that copied the stones knew what they were at the time the copies were made ..

much the same way it takes place in the Sinclair case . we see coded data but we can still link one rune stone to the next ..

and yes its good to see your still with us and any help is good help ..

 

[somehiker]

Joe:
"Having been raised in the Catholic Church, I have heard "Dies Irae" many times. Your linking it to the Jesuit Order is nebulous at best. It is more closely related to the Franciscans, as it was one of their Order who composed it. In the final analysis, it is Catholic."
While I was attending the Ethiopian service at the Jesuit Loyola Center a few sundays ago,I heard a wonderful rendition of musical chanting coming from one of the other halls of the complex.I asked a passing priest the name of the "hymn".He replied "Dies Irae" and spelled it for me while I jotted it down.He didn't bother to mention that it was really a "Catholic" chant.The Ethiopians may sing it as well.I will have to ask their priest.

Regards:Wayne.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

That's really interesting. I wonder if they sang it in Latin or Ethiopian?

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Joe:
Those who were singing Dies Irae were in a hall one floor above the hall that the Ethiopians were using.The Ethiopian service did include a great deal of chanting by the three priests,the Bishop,and a couple of others who I think were lay brothers.Some of it certainly sounded like latin to me and some was spoken in Ethiopian...even the odd bit of english here and there.It lasted about 5 1/2 hours in total.If they do sing "Dies Irae",I would expect it to be in Latin,but I will ask if you'd like.

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

No need to ask, as it's not all that important. I would assume it was sung in Latin rather than Ethiopian. The Catholic Church has been there for centuries. I would imagine the services are also in Latin. Sounds like an interesting place to visit.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Loke]

@always lost:
Just a li'l bit interested in what kind of software you are using for your data collections and following conclusions ...??

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Per,

Just a wild guess here, but I would imagine that bb creates his own software. There is no doubt in my mind, that the man is a genius. Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Loke]

Joe,
Yeah - with that kind of genius and predictive software being right 7 out of 7 times, I'm surprised he doesn't use his skill on Wall Street - there's a lot more treasures to be found there ...
I know a little bit about software and hardware, hence my question ... and predictive software is not the easiest of tasks ...

How are you and the wife keeping?

Per

 

[cactusjumper]

Per,

Carolyn and I are doing fine and I trust you and the family are as well.

bb has told us many times that he is not interested in money. Of course, that's the same story we get from everyone, except for we few remaining, greedy, Capitalist.

He's a tough one to keep up with, so stay on your toes.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening: sorry for a late post, but here is an example of how a single word may change the context and even the meaning of data or stories.

it was posted by jim


jim
"It was approximately in the late 1960's, I believe, that I was at the U.S. Attorneys office in Phoenix, when one of the Deputy U.S. Attorneys told me that an FBI agent from the FBI laboratory in Washington DC was in their office. Apparently, the Phoenix office had obtained the stone maps to have them analyzed by the FBI laboratory to see if they were recent fakes. He asked if I would like to speak with the agent since I was interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine and I said I would. I spoke with the agent and asked him what 'they' had found in analyzing the stone maps. He told me that 'they' believed the maps were at least a hundred years old. To my recollection that's all he said about the maps.

Bob Corbin."

*********
Joe posted:

joe
Joe I don't know anything about what is in your e-mail other than what I have previously said and that was I was visiting a friend in the US Attorneys office and he said that an FBI agent was in the office who had investigated the stone maps to see if they were a fraud and who worked in their lab in DC. I asked him what he had found and he to;d me that in his opinion that they were at least 100 years old
*******
jim:
. I related Bob's personal involvement with the case only to his conversation with the FBI, what 'they' told him,
The FBI Labs in Washington D.C. concluded that in their opinion the stone maps were at least 100 years old when they examined them in the late 60's.
====================================================

A minor point, but as such are successful treasure hunts made. Notice that in jim's posts the FBI is referred to as them, they, their etc.

Yet in Joe's posts BOB is quoted in his own words in the singular.

This brings up the interesting point that if it was in the singular, then the FBI lab was NOT involved, but the opinion that they were probably over 100 years old was a personal one??.

Little thingies like this can be extremely important.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Apol, BOB if I seem to be dragging you into this, but I am making an important point.

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

I think this conversation is in the past but, just for the record, I don't believe that anyone is right or wrong on what the FBI Agent told Bob. It's the rest of the "facts" that I have a real problem with. Those are topics that Bob never addressed with Jim. Who really knows what was originally said. I take Bob at his word, but anyone could exchange "he" for "they" when you might be thinking he was speaking for the FBI.

Having said that, history gets changed one word at a time, or entire books as it is being done today. I will always resist any change without real evidence. Kind of like the Jesuits mining at Tumacacori.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

RDT,

Actually if you carefully read all the versions, even with the single word difference, you are forgetting that the FBI Agent was from the FBI Lab. Not just a random Agent. So, in effect, he WAS speaking on behalf of the FBI Lab.

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,
Gosh I said I would politely drop out and just keep poking my nose back in here, but I have excuses (our old amigo Always Lost returning to the flock for instance) and you folks keep bringing up such interesting points.

First, Cactusjumper wrote

Having said that, history gets changed one word at a time, or entire books as it is being done today. I will always resist any change without real evidence. Kind of like the Jesuits mining at Tumacacori.

Speaking of changing history a word at a time, I will agree that there likely never were ANY padres mining AT Tumacacori, it would have made the visita (and later mission) pretty durned dangerous, with shafts, tunnels etc someone could fall in.

Always Lost (BB) I too am sorry to hear that your brother's health has not improved, but keep him on the right track amigo, and he will improve. I bet that he really does appreciate your helping him through this too. Now you covered a lot of ground, and as it is already late and I have to hit the hay soon so I will stick to one question for you tonight; are you saying that you think Freddie Crystal put the Peralta Stones where they were found by Tumlinson? Can I ask what led you to that conclusion? Thank you in advance, and I hope everyone reading our discussion has a great day tomorrow.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Don't really disagree with you here, but if the US Attorney's office requested that the Stone Maps be tested by the FBI Lab in DC, I can't imagine that the whole thing didn't generate a file box worth of paperwork. The chain of evidence alone would have set the printers humming, let alone the FBI report itself. Each and every person who touched the maps would have had to sign for them, and each of those signed evidence documents would have ended up in a file.

It may just be that no one has ever asked to see the file, but it seems likely that it would still exist......somewhere. I doubt there were any "tests" that could have been run by any lab.....anywhere, that could determine the age of those stone slabs. IMHO, only an archaeologist could determine their age by the style of the carvings.

Perhaps this is a good job for Beth.

Just my opinion, so I could be wrong.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

RDT,

Actually if you carefully read all the versions, even with the single word difference, you are forgetting that the FBI Agent was from the FBI Lab. Not just a random Agent. So, in effect, he WAS speaking on behalf of the FBI Lab.

Best-Mike

Mike,

From your posts I can tell you're a stickler for details, so I was surprised to see you say what you did above. I'm beginning to think all of this is a moot point because the answer isn't going to change ANYONE'S opinions regarding the stone maps, but....

If he did indeed say "in his opinion, that they were at least 100 years old," that does NOT necessarily mean he was speaking for the entire FBI - it might mean that and it might not, but that statement alone is not clear enough to make that distinction.

There have been MANY times I've been involved in analyzing things in the lab where those of us doing the work don't interpret the results the same way.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Cubber mi buddy: You got it. While the distinction is fine, as it stands 'did the FBI lab' actually examine them or was it the opinon of an individual agent examining them? A huge difference.

Joe has it correct, why wasn't a questionaire ever submitted under the freedom of information act ?

Actually, as I said, the purpose of the post was not to 'actually' question the posts on the FBI, but to show how easily a single word can change the context and concept of the data. Never make a shibboleth of any thing, such as the '8' thingie, while it is probably not important, it just may be the key.

A simple conclusion sent most Tayopa hunters off on a tangent and to some 60-100 miles in the wrong direction.


In the case of the stones it could mean the difference of being over 100 years old or not.

Don Jose de La Mancha