the great deception of swift

[Ken S.]

Ok. Mrs Renfro. That was Beans Station? I’d like to look back and see where she exists in history.

that would be interesting to know.

 

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[Curtis]

I think the Henson research collection was purchased from his heirs by a single person for their collection.

 

[KY Hiker]

I think the Henson research collection was purchased from his heirs by a single person for their collection.

Well lets hope it is not under lock and key, it would be a pity that all of that would not be available for further research!

 

[swiftfan]

Henson said his copy was the Uniontown papers of Col. Tye. The last owner he mentioned was in Louisville in the 1840’s. Where does it go from there?

 

[KY Hiker]

Mr. and Mrs. Timmins came from Louisville, she traveled back to Louisville to get more money for her dig at one point. She had a daughter who was married and lived there as well. Her source for her journal was either her or her husbands grand parents that I would assume lived in Louisville too. The time frame would be the same, she worked Swift Camp Creek in the 1870s-1890 or so. I don't know her maiden name, but she is referred to as Mrs. R.P. Timmins in many articles from the Hazel Green Herald, referred to as Mrs. Rebecca Timmins or lately as Timmons, and locally there she is known as Becky Timmins or Timmons. One article I have she is called Mrs. Perkins...that may be her maiden name as I cannot figure why the author would refer to her as that...and it fits her middle initial. You have to remember Henson's dad was a USFS employee in DBNF and around the Red River Gorge 1950s-1960s roughly. There is a bluff named after him, although the spelling is wrong, called Hanson's Point. That is about all I got in that direction...

Also of note, 1840s might be correct to the original source journal, if you read Prather's book his research shows Swift being a young adult in the mid 1770s and living through the War of 1812 in and around Alexandria,VA as a merchant by trade, but also owned, bought, and sold land in KY multiple times. Some of the land is around Rough River and where Ft. Knox is now...that is just approx. 30miles South of Louisville. No Swift found on record living in Alexandria in the 1760s...that time frame may be another deception to protect finding rights to the mine from the French? (just a guess) and why it mentions French workings in the same area...?

 

[swiftfan]

I thought Rebecca Timmons info was from the Col. Tye papers. That’s another step. What about her family? There was a daughter? And when she died, what of her effects? This brings us to the late 1800’s. Henson says his information came from the originals. So, this was in the 1950’s-1960’s. There may be a connection there with his father. IF Henson had the originals, AND his collection was sold, where are they now? When did Henson die? Seems like I remember my dad saying he knew him, and dad had one of his books with a note Henson left him. I just don’t have access to that research.. dang it.

 

[Tiredman]

From the Newcastle News no. 24 November 21, 1890, page 2.

 

[KY Hiker]

From the Newcastle News no. 24 November 21, 1890, page 2. View attachment 1668081View attachment 1668082

Indians visit Wolfe county....One of three counties the Red River Gorge is in, including Swift Camp Creek which runs past Campton, the county seat of Wolfe county I think. Powell and Menifee are the other two counties down there.

 

[KY Hiker]

I thought Rebecca Timmons info was from the Col. Tye papers. That’s another step. What about her family? There was a daughter? And when she died, what of her effects? This brings us to the late 1800’s. Henson says his information came from the originals. So, this was in the 1950’s-1960’s. There may be a connection there with his father. IF Henson had the originals, AND his collection was sold, where are they now? When did Henson die? Seems like I remember my dad saying he knew him, and dad had one of his books with a note Henson left him. I just don’t have access to that research.. dang it.

I have some links for you to read, some are about her and some are written by her. From the site you can search for 'Swift silver mine' 'Indian silver mine' ' Timmins' or whatever your fancy. Enjoy.

Mrs. Timmins called Perkins...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=3

Part one by Mrs. Timmins...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86063242/1894-10-04/ed-1/seq-1/

Part two by Mrs. Timmins...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86063242/1894-10-11/ed-1/seq-1/

Timmins/Swift mine location in this article...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=5

More details about the mine location...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=6
as you can see she did a dig in two different locations about 2 miles apart.

Timmins/Swift mine article...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=6

Timmins goes West to Louisville for funds...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=6

Written by Mrs. Timmins in response... https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...lver&y=7&x=14&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=5

106 search results on 'swift silver'...https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...ateFilterType=yearRange&page=3&sort=relevance

This article from Appleton's magazine has a story about the Swift mine and the pictures are all from the Swift Camp Creek and Red River Gorge area, first picture is of Rock Bridge across Swift Camp Creek...it runs from page 419-431. You'll have to page backwards to start the piece...https://books.google.com/books?id=a...t&sqi=2#v=onepage&q=swift silver mine&f=false
it should answer some of your questions about the Journal and who had copies.

I cannot take credit for all this, others on here left some of these links, wish I could remember who. I just organized them into a timeline order as to when they were written. There is much more to read on the 106 results link but this is the bulk of material about Timmins.

 

[KY Hiker]

The map link here is centered on the area Mrs. Timmins searched, worked and dug. She found in this area matching the Journal she carried, the Natural bridge over water (Rock Bridge), the Turtle Back Rock, the Indian Stair Steps, Half Moon shaped cliff, The Monument Rocks and the Buffalo Rock. They found an opening on the third ledge of that cliff. Silver was there just not in paying amounts. She also made a dig in the Calaboose section about 2 miles East of Swift Camp Creek (near where it says Calaboose School on map). The USFS does everything in its power to suppress the story of Swift and Timmins because their interest is in preserving this area especially now, as it is a designated wilderness called the Clifty Wilderness. We have all heard of the mine being on a cliff under a Chestnut Burr Rock, interesting that there is a Chestnut Log Creek in the same area? Could the Chestnut Burr Rock actually be a rock with a Chestnut tree perched up on it? Just another way to look at it...

https://www.topoquest.com/map.php?l...nad83&zoom=8&map=auto&coord=d&mode=pan&size=m

It could be that this area was mined by Swift, Indians, French or all of them. My guess is Mrs. Timmins found no quantity of Silver here because this site was mined out, or what she found were secondary sites and the main opening is still covered up to this day.

 

[rgb1]

hey guys the more i study the more i realize how decietful swift was as i have not studied the lower or west mines but what i have found in more study of the mines i found it is imposible to find anything on the upper mines other than vage discriptions the more i dig the more deception i find however things im finding does seem to tie into upper mines wish i could give more will in future

 

[KY Hiker]

As I have said before, there are some journals that only mention upper and lower mines...no mention of middle mines at all. At this point it is hard to tell which journal version is correct/original, the deception may not all be Swift's. It could be that many versions are corrupted intentionally to deceive. Greed is an ugly beast.

Deception is the basis for the theory behind Prather's book on Swift as well. His thought is Swift was deceiving others by leading them off to the wrong part of the state. I have heard some postulate that Kentucky is the wrong state, others say he went to what is now Colorado! In that era that seems beyond far fetched. The problem with all of it is refining down the facts of the story, then going from there. There is much more here say about the legend than facts that can be traced....

 

[Ken S.]

There has been a lot of deception sown into a lot of the legends. At this point I'm thinking with all the legends of counterfit coins and silver bars that have been found in Ky I'm thinking that there is precious metals to be had in the hills of Ky. I'm thinking more along the lines of searching for metal more over Swifts mines. Then if that turns into something let everyone wonder how Ol Ken got so filthy rich in his ol age. LOL

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OLD Virginia wanted ppl to settle & make "claims" in that area that eventually became Kentucky, etc. Making up stories about GOLD, SILVER, COPPER Mines does it almost every time...

 

[KY Hiker]

There has been a lot of deception sown into a lot of the legends. At this point I'm thinking with all the legends of counterfit coins and silver bars that have been found in Ky I'm thinking that there is precious metals to be had in the hills of Ky. I'm thinking more along the lines of searching for metal more over Swifts mines. Then if that turns into something let everyone wonder how Ol Ken got so filthy rich in his ol age. LOL

If you get rich digging up silver, expect to work your backside off and get yourself a lot of help too. What is silver going for now? $20 or $30 an ounce? 16oz in a pound roughly works out to $500 a pound for the pure stuff! Now how many tons of ore will you dig, haul and smelt to get that pound of silver? Whheewww it makes me tired just thinking about it!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL!

 

[Ken S.]

If you get rich digging up silver, expect to work your backside off and get yourself a lot of help too. What is silver going for now? $20 or $30 an ounce? 16oz in a pound roughly works out to $500 a pound for the pure stuff! Now how many tons of ore will you dig, haul and smelt to get that pound of silver? Whheewww it makes me tired just thinking about it!

It's going for about $15. There is about 14 troy oz. per pound. So the math figures out to about pretty good depending on ore purity. If a ton of ore is 50% silver that would be 1400 ozs. I'll let you do the math.

save you the trouble of figuring it out ! it would figure out to about $21000/ton of ore and 5ton a year would put a man into a 6 figure income a year.

 

[KY Hiker]

50% silver ore? wow man, you are optimistic! Sounds like you got the fever!

 

[Ken S.]

If ya going to wish, wish BIG

 

[rgb1]

ounces troy per ozs. regular avordupis weight 1lb. 12.09714 this is what metals are weighed by wish it was same as regular weight actualy if you have a carbonate ore this can run as much as 20.000 ozs per ton with excess being composed of some base metals with balance being gold this is gone in west and is not even mentioned any more in information i only am aware of this because of a book i have printed in 1880 by kustel if you are skeptical of this check it out i have another book by charles aaron printed in 1881 this is also good information says same thing these ores are found in ky also carbonates and hydroxides i have found all three these are what swift was mineing and would account for his claim of what he produced when i get rights to land i will show it to all this is reason for being so secretive doubt that you blame me now for doing what i have did not want to give this out but so much skeptism decided to do it