The gipper and gun control

SOME states don't have Self-Defense statutes. Case Law & Jury Instructions can impact "SD" Cases.
 

Don't live in a state that does not allow its citizens to defend their selves.

Supreme Court has already ruled police are not obligated to protect citizens, their job is to investigate and solve crimes. If they are not obligated to protect us then it is our responsibility to protect our selves and our familes..
 

3.5% of gun violence in the US is with rifles of any form. Way to target the problem legislators.
 

It has nothing to do with crime and everything to do with disarming law abiding citizens, it is just another attack on the 2nd by the left.

People should not fear the government, the government should fear the people only then do we have freedom.
 

Hopefully no one needs to fear anyone. For the most part we live in an incredibly peaceful country unless you are the unfortunate urban poor. As many you have pointed out time and time again you have a much greater likelihood of getting into a car crash, heart attach or falling off a ladder as you will be randomly shot by an unknown assailant. It makes national news when it happens anywhere in the country so if you watch too much depressing mainstream media you think it's s common occurrence. We have a lot more likely things to worry about.
 

Gold Maven said:
3.5% of gun violence in the US is with rifles of any form. Way to target the problem legislators.

Completely agree - the government lives to show the military looking rifles with the big banana clips on them. Throw a bayonet on for impact. If they really wanted to do something they would clamp down on cheap throwaway handguns that are almost exclusively used for inner city crime. But those aren't big scary "assault rifles".

When I'm working late at night in the big city I'm a lot more concerned someone is going to pull a SNS than walk up an accost me with a rifle!!

Good post.
 

stockpicker,

I'd have to agree with you on that one....did a fair amount of business travel as well as pleasure travel in the US....can't say I felt threatened to any great degree.

One of the few exceptions was a business trip to Philly.....checked into a downtown hotel in a good part of town....had some time to kill and asked the front desk where I should go for a walk(after dark mind you)...she knew I was a Canuck....looked at me kind of strange and told me to go to the lounge....have a bite to eat and a few beers....

I guess she just wanted me to stay safe so I'd be around to settle the bill in the morning....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

And do you think the Brady bill that followed was an unconstitutional bill? I'm not saying it was a good bill or had absolutely an impact on crime - but was it constitutional?

It is unknown if the bill as passed was Constitutional as it was never challenged in court. As to why that is, no one knows why those with the power to make the challenge did not. That was nearly twenty years ago. That bill is completely unrelated to the current attempts to limit access to guns for the good citizens of the country. Many thousands of people own weapons similar to those recently used in terrible crimes. Yet only a very few people have used them in crime. This is on an order of substantially less than 1%. Why punish the good people?

My other question, which no liberal ever seems willing to answer is, what compromise? There is a status quo right now. Liberals want to change that through some form of compromise. To me that means if you want something from me, you must give up something in return. All I ever hear is the first half of that.

Liberals never compromise in the true sense of the word. They attack by accretion. They want a little now, a little more later and so on. No compromise on that basis. If most of you went back to the country I knew in the fifties you would know how much this country has changed, mostly for the bad, one little bite at a time. I remember back in the fifties when New York passed bans on switchblade knives, which they assured everyone would end gang violence. How did that work out? I know a liberal is lying when I see their lips move.
 

GrizLeeBear said:
It is unknown if the bill as passed was Constitutional as it was never challenged in court. As to why that is, no one knows why those with the power to make the challenge did not. That was nearly twenty years ago. That bill is completely unrelated to the current attempts to limit access to guns for the good citizens of the country. Many thousands of people own weapons similar to those recently used in terrible crimes. Yet only a very few people have used them in crime. This is on an order of substantially less than 1%. Why punish the good people?

My other question, which no liberal ever seems willing to answer is, what compromise? There is a status quo right now. Liberals want to change that through some form of compromise. To me that means if you want something from me, you must give up something in return. All I ever hear is the first half of that.

Liberals never compromise in the true sense of the word. They attack by accretion. They want a little now, a little more later and so on. No compromise on that basis. If most of you went back to the country I knew in the fifties you would know how much this country has changed, mostly for the bad, one little bite at a time. I remember back in the fifties when New York passed bans on switchblade knives, which they assured everyone would end gang violence. How did that work out? I know a liberal is lying when I see their lips move.

Why do you think gun owners never challenge - because as been proven in dozens of bills it is perfectly legal to put controls on gun ownership.

I agree I think the current push is much closer to the federal assault weapons ban enacted during the Clinton years ( and supported by Ronald Reagan, ford and carter). As you know that law was in place for many years then left to expire.

Given that law was also completely constitutional, why would a similar to same law all of a sudden be considered unconstitutional ?

I'm not saying it was or will be a "good" law or prevent any crime. But it would likely be completely constitution.

No idea on the other question, you would have to ask a so called liberal. Seems to my that neither side is ever willing to compromise and that's been why our government can't get a damn thing done!!

To answer your switchblade point, ill pose another question. Laws (including capital punishment in some states) are in place to prevent murders. Yet bad people continue to commit murder without any care or thought of the law. Given murder laws are completely useless would we be better off if we did not have them since they will never stop the bad people from doing bad things? Interested in your answer thanks.
 

Griz,

***Corrector.....my comments to GIB were on the gipper thread...hard to keep track of all the exchanges....must be an age thing***

I agree on things not being the same as the 1950/70's era....simpler times and simpler solutions.....today more complex and convoluted.....just evolution some good and some bad....

As to your point about liberals....check my exchanges further up with GIB.....these discussions are more of an intellectual exercise than anything else.....doubt if any one including me that puts a different slant on things could be considered a liberal in the true sense of the word.

I guess realistic would be a better term....unfortunately not everything is black and white....lots of grey areas when you put complex issues under the microscope....food for thought.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

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ill pose another question. Laws (including capital punishment in some states) are in place to prevent murders. Yet bad people continue to commit murder without any care or thought of the law. Given murder laws are completely useless would we be better off if we did not have them since they will never stop the bad people from doing bad things? Interested in your answer thanks.

Thank you for proving our point on why gun control does not work....... Criminals dont follow the law, only law abiding citizens do....what makes any gun control liberal think gun control will stop crime, It is already against the law to commit crimes, criminals do not walk into guns shops to buy their guns, criminals and evil people do not care about the law, only law abiding citizens.......

THE ONLY THING GUN CONTROL TRIES TO STOP IS LAW ABIDING CITIZENS FROM BUY THEIR ARMS.

This is the exact reason American Patriots do not want to give another inch on the 2nd, the liberal left wing will be after our pistols next, only a fool thinks they want.....What happens when you back a big mad dog back into a cornor and keep going at him...................It is the same with us and our rights........

You either believe in and support all the Constitution or you believe in none of it, there is no varying degree, it is all or nothing!........................

Amendment II
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."


"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."
-John Parker

"Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace — but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! "
-Patrick Henry March 23, 1775.
 

Why do you think gun owners never challenge - because as been proven in dozens of bills it is perfectly legal to put controls on gun ownership. (An assumption on your part. The last time there was a challenge to a gun control law the Supremes struck the law down)

I agree I think the current push is much closer to the federal assault weapons ban enacted during the Clinton years ( and supported by Ronald Reagan, ford and carter). As you know that law was in place for many years then left to expire. (Who says they supported it? Ford was middle of the road, Carter was a blithering idiot and second worst president behind Obozo, and I've never seen anywhere but in your words what Reagan supported it. However, what they did or did not support means nothing. Itb was in effect for ten years and did not good.)

Given that law was also completely constitutional, why would a similar to same law all of a sudden be considered unconstitutional? (Again, constituonallity was never proven becuase it was never challenged. It was a poorly crafted law that did no good. There can be no good ban becuase the idiots in DC have no idea what they are dealing with. One of them held up a round from an AK-47 and said with shock, "That is the largest bullet I've ever seen." Trust me, it is not that large. What does a Mafia hit man use? A single shot .22. All weapons are assault weapons if I attack you with one.)

I'm not saying it was or will be a "good" law or prevent any crime. But it would likely be completely constitution. (Again, up to the Supremes if and when it is passed and then challenged. I am sure that challenge would take years.)

No idea on the other question, you would have to ask a so called liberal. Seems to my that neither side is ever willing to compromise and that's been why our government can't get a damn thing done!! (Roger that. But I think it is time to leave the liberal ideal behind and work on important things such as the BUDGET! Most of the problems of this country could be solved if we got people back to work.)

To answer your switchblade point, ill pose another question. Laws (including capital punishment in some states) are in place to prevent murders. (Laws do not prevent anything. They dscuss punishment after the fact.) Yet bad people continue to commit murder without any care or thought of the law. (They do not believe the laws will be enforced.) Given murder laws are completely useless would we be better off if we did not have them since they will never stop the bad people from doing bad things? Interested in your answer thanks. (Capital punishment used to work when it was used. Many states have banned it and the ones that have it take ten to fifteen years to put it into effect. We need to go back to the system where a person was arrested, tried, convicted and then put to death. It works when it is in use. Ask criminals today and they will tell you they don't fear it. I say once a person is convicted and sentensed to death there is a review panel that looks at everything one good time. If they can find no problem with the conviction, carry it out in two weeks and be done with it. The current system costs way to much. The concept is called "Coventry". All I want is an absolute guarantee that the criminals will not be free again to rape, murder and cause general mayhem.

See above inclusions.
 

[B said:
Amendment II
[/B]"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Gentlemen, please, get the quote correct: There is no comma between 'arms' and 'shall'. This is an invention of the left in trying to change the meaning of the amendment. Look it up if you don't believe me. That comma changes the meaning and should not be included. Don't give the left the satisfaction.
 

GrizLeeBear said:
See above inclusions.

If a law is not deemed unconstitutional than it is constitutional.

Reagan ford and carter all signed a letter published in the New York Times and actively lobbied to get it passed. Pretty common knowledge. Completely agree that carter was the worse pres at least in my lifetime.

Best
 

If a law is not deemed unconstitutional than it is constitutional.

Reagan ford and carter all signed a letter published in the New York Times and actively lobbied to get it passed. Pretty common knowledge. Completely agree that carter was the worse pres at least in my lifetime. Best

You keep missing my point. I don't care if John The Baptist supports it, I don't.

Obozo is twice as bad as Jimmy...he got elected again!
 

GrizLeeBear said:
You keep missing my point. I don't care if John The Baptist supports it, I don't.

Obozo is twice as bad as Jimmy...he got elected again!

Didnt miss your point at all. You were not aware of the support so I just pointed out where you could find the data to back up the statement. I'm a fan of providing backup if someone asks.

I'd put carter at the bottom - hyperinflation, gasoline lines, Iran hostage crisis, etc.
 

You keep missing my point. I don't care if John The Baptist supports it, I don't.

Obozo is twice as bad as Jimmy...he got elected again!

Your right Griz, King obama makes Carter look like George Washington....He keeps playing the pipe and the blind mice keep following him..... Gas is twice what it was when he was elected, unemployment is the same after over 4 years at about 7.8-7.9 and that is jsut the ones that haven't given up looking, welfare and food stamps are up.....Debt was suppose to be cut in half, not add 6 trillion more, but at least the parasites got free smart phones...
 

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