the everything site ...?

[the blindbowman]

bb,

You should really give this thing a rest. Scott is never going to give you a permit, or even consider one, with the evidence you have presented here. You are wasting his and your own time. Those folks have better things to do. Better to just keep playing here.......we obviously have a little time on our hands.

You give every indication of a man drowning, with no hope of rescue.

I wish you well,

Joe

i have not presented any of the evidence for site 4 at any web site ....lol thanks any way ...

 

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[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Blindbowman wrote:

this is a matter of evidence and proff ...presonal opioions have no bearing at all

Precisely, correct. You have stated that you have evidence which you would not share here on a public forum, so I presume you are including that withheld evidence in your permit applications? It would be the right time to present it to them. If we have not been "convinced" by what you presented here, that should not have any bearing on whether the Forest Service will approve or deny your application, since you would be presenting ALL the evidence (or most?) to them, whereas all we have had to go by is definitely not all that you have, right?
Good luck with your application, I hope they will grant it to you.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I would not bet on that.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Well Joe, the obvious question is - would you post all of your evidence of some discovery you had made in a public internet forum? For that matter, would you post publicly all of the documentary evidence you have in your possession, concerning some lost treasure or lost mine on a public internet forum? Wouldn't you keep the most sensitive and/or most important, most difficult-to-obtain absolutely private? I certainly wouldn't make everything public, and have to grant the benefit of the doubt that Blindbowman, whatever you might think of him, would do so either.

For his own sake I hope he does have more evidence than what has been presented in this forum, for if the Forest Service must make the decision based on what we have here, I fear that he is in for a big letdown. I do think that he made a major mistake in "testing" Scott and the FS with a fake story, which now may cause them to view any future application(s) he might make with a slightly biased/jaundiced eye. (Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice...)

Gosh now you have got me dreaming of one day having the chance to pore over the archives and research materials of our fellow amigo Real de Tayopa...! (With a note pad and pencil in hand of course - my memory is not perfect! ) Ah well that would be cheating on my part, as I know how much time and effort it takes to find some of those ancient records, heck even trying to chase down a living relative of someone who was involved with a famous lost treasure can be quite an exercise. Something you are also only too well acquainted with.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

As you know....anything is possible......well, almost anything.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro, you will have full access to my data, have no doubts. Unfortunately, due to the remarkably efficient efforts of the Jesuits, very little hard data remains. They themselves, couldn't return to the Tayopa complex for this reason, but did set up operations near by until their expulsion. This subsequent operation was the source for the 4 main deposits.

Frankly, there isn't much about Tayopa that isn't already in public domain. I even posted the precise lat. & Long. of the Tayopa complex, Once I had applied for the title to Tayopa, it became public information, available to anyone that wished to have a copy by simply asking the Mining office in Mexico City.

However, as you stated, I have kept the critical points to myself, and so they will remain until I am actually engaged in opening the Tayopa it self. I can put you on the actual site and I defy anyone to find the complex's entries, or any of the deposits without this data hehehe.

If all goes as planned, you & Beth may be there.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Bb relax on Tayopa, it isn't , nor ever was, in the superstitions. #1 was in the Guaynopa / Guaynopita area. # 2 is west of Yecora, now owned by a group of Mexicans. #3, "The" Tayopa is some 60 miles further south/east, this is MINE!. MINE, MINE ! hehehehehehh

 

[the blindbowman]

untill its proven fact anything can happen ..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

P R O V E N hehehehehe

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Peerless67]

Throughout history there have been many men who in the face of advertsity rewrote the history books. Some were great men of thier time, Galileo changed our understanding of the universe.
He was not alone many have changed the way we thought, they did this at the risk of becoming outcasts and being ridiculed, but to a man they had one thing in common, when they made claims that seemed unconventional or even ridiculous, they put forward arguement and evidence that would explain thier "outside of the box" thinking. They also accomplished that without taking away from others achievement.
There have been exceptions to the rule Mel Gibson comes to mind in his directing/acting in the patriot and brave heart where he blatently changed history. But he has to be forgiven, as an actor he has a certain amount of poetic licence to create something for the masses to enjoy.
More recently BB you have decided to rewrite more than one history book, you have managed to move whole civilizations, monuments, people and even the arc itself. Even more amazingly you have managed to place them all in a few square acres in the superstitions.
I have never been to Arizona, the closest I have been is flying over it in a jet, I am sure it is an amazing place, and someday its my wish to visit and take some of the scenery in for myself.
But if I ever wanted to learn something about the supers that was unavailable in a book, I would ask CJ (Joe) because of his IMO wealth of knowledge on the legends of the place.
In the same manner if I wanted to learn anything about Tayopa I would surely ask RDT, because I believe he has found Tayopa. Although both of these men are to humble to admit it both have a vast wealth of knowledge. You on the other hand BB have no class, you would even try to undermine the achievements of others to satisfy your own delussional theories.

Like you BB I have had a vision, I dont normally do this but I have been having dozens of visions.
You will shortly be getting some mail from the NFS and it will say "premit" declined.
please let me know if my visions are more accurate than yours have been.

 

[Cubfan64]

and scott could refuse my premit . but i wont be going anywhere soon, i have a good lawyer and i am fully ready to do any thing it takes to protect this discovery ..

if i do not get a premit ..i plan to take my research to a higher cort ..if scott refuses my request and i am right he wont have a job when this is over .i hope that is not the case . not my goal but things happen ..if you dont beleive then no one will ...

Now THAT's a great way to win over the person who is in charge of investigating and either issuing or recommending the issuance of a permit - THREATS - that ALWAYS works well

the premit has very little to do with a discovery .. if i dont get the premit i will take the site public and if i was right , about this site i would not want to be the one that was wrong ...

I thought you were going to take it to a higher court? Now you're going to make it public if you don't get a permit? Seems we've all heard that story too many times to count.

all you really need is one fact and make sure it can not be explaned away ... if you find that one fact you do have a discovery worthy of a premit ...i know the guidelines ,i have a copy ..

If you've paid attention to all the rational folks here, I don't believe there has been a single FACT you've claimed that you've ever been able to back up. As Oro mentioned - I hope the "facts" you sent Scott Wood are much better than the "facts" you presented here.

i hope to have a clear cut answer by the time of the gathering, is why i requested the premit now .. if i am refused a premit . i will demand a fair public heiring ........

I thought you were going to make it public - oh wait, you were going to sic your lawyer on the NFS... actually who the heck knows what you'll do next.

I would highly doubt even if you gave Scott Wood ALL your evidence (so he can actually inspect the site personally), there's any chance in heck of getting a permit by the end of October.

If you had even provided ONE shred of evidence that held water here amongst your fellow treasure hunters (who have a vested interest in locating amazing discoveries), imagine how much support you could have gotten regarding your request for a permit from the NFS (who arguably has a vested interest in NOT seeing anyone locate amazing discoveries).

Good luck on what I imagine will be a VERY long road for you in obtaining a permit.

 

[the blindbowman]

what ever .. the facts will stand for them selfs ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB, YOU POSTED -->

"i have not seen any histroy book saying tayopa has been found any where yet"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You haven't? Hmmmmmm

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

what ever .. the facts will stand for them selfs ...

Yes they will - and for what it's worth, when all is said and done I still do wish you luck - everyone deserves a chance.

 

[the blindbowman]

what ever .. the facts will stand for them selfs ...

Yes they will - and for what it's worth, when all is said and done I still do wish you luck - everyone deserves a chance.

we our selfs can only try to change our own fate ... if you never try you will never know if you could have....but it only takes one preson to change fate change the fate of mankind ...

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Blindbowman I hope you will forgive us for our doubts and skepticism, everyone who presents a new theory or idea that flies in the face of accepted knowledge must face it; as for the Forest Service, I would rather that you had not submitted a "test" app to them with a false story but am confident that they will give your application a fair examination and will not simply reject it out of hand, but will look at the evidence you present to them. Despite the protectionists' influence on government, it is a fact that the federal government stands to directly benefit from any treasures discovered and recovered from the public lands as they get HALF right off the top, (without having to expend a dime in the process nor any effort) plus income tax on the rest - so they have good reason to APPROVE such applications when they are genuine and supported by real evidence. They have approved similar requests in the past, if anyone cares to research that matter - Victorio Peak is one example, another took place in Fort Huachuca (in AZ) some years ago just off the top of my head.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"we our selfs can only try to change our own fate"

I have come to the conclusion that is exactly what you are trying to do here. To be honest, I think our fate is in someone else's hands. How we reach that fate, is in our hands.

Good luck on your journey.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

______________________________________________
Cactusjumper wrote:

Quote
Hope all is well with you folks.

"Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia."

Can you pinpoint this time in history?

HI Joe! Yes all is well with us, been very busy of late so haven’t been able to devote so much time to irritating the good folks here on T-net. You ask a valid question – and I wrote up a way-too-long reply so have shortened it up, since it hit me that you must have read Plato as well – the easy answer is 9,500 BC (11,508 years ago for those who don’t want to do the math) which is a very interesting time period. So I must now respectfully disagree with Blindbowman’s date of 1500-1600 BC, on the basis that these dates do not agree with Plato, nor has the sea level changed all that much since then.
__________________________________________________

Cactusjumper wrote:

Quote
It has long been accepted that Atlantis is myth, created by the fertile imagination of Plato.

Accepted as myth by whom? Can you site some authorities who say this? Do you accept the conclusion of an encyclopedia or dictionary as the absolute, total and indisputable fact? Thank you in advance,
___________________________________________________

The reason I asked you if you could pinpoint the time in history for the story of Atlantis, was not an idle question.

Athens, which plays a major part in Plato's story, could not have existed as Plato describes it in 9,500 B.C. (Approx. era)

That was around 3,000 years prior to man's emerging from living in caves and rock shelters. Man existed by hunting and gathering. Even after man left the caves, civilization was slow in coming.

Two men who did not believe Plato's story was anything but fiction, were Aristotle and Plutarch. Plutarch labeled the story a "fable". You will have no trouble finding many others who believed it to be true.

If you will address the problem with 9,500 B.C., we can proceed from that point with further discussion of the story of Atlantis. If you have not read Plato's "Republic", which preceeded "Timaeus", you will not have a clear picture of why Atlantis was created.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Joe,

Cactusjumper wrote:

Two men who did not believe Plato's story was anything but fiction, were Aristotle and Plutarch. Plutarch labeled the story a "fable". You will have no trouble finding many others who believed it to be true

Aristotle and Plutarch? Are you quite sure of those two as men who were convinced Atlantis was fiction? I suggest you read Plutarch's "Life of Solon" - it is online at:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/solon.html
Plutarch's exact words are (translated into English) : "Now Solon, having begun the great work in verse, the history or fable of the Atlantic Island, which he had learned from the wise men in Sais, and thought convenient for the Athenians to know, abandoned it; not, as Plato says, by reason of want of time, but because of his age, and being discouraged at the greatness of the task; for that he had leisure enough, such verses testify, as- <snip>" - his use of the word "FABLE" does not have quite the meaning of classifying Atlantis as mythical, but rather as a history that has been dramatized. I underscored the mention of where Solon obtained the story of Atlantis, which would point to a non-Greek origin of the tale rather than an "invention" of Plato's for dramatic effect.

*Side note for our readers 'edification' but Aristotle was a "student" of Plato's, though he could not afford the tuition to attend Plato's classes directly he did sort of follow Plato and his class around as they walked. Plato taught his classes often while taking the students on a stroll. Plato jokingly referred to Aristotle as "the Colt" as a kind of ribbing, remembering that a colt will turn and kick his own mother after drinking his fill of milk from her.****

Cactusjumper also wrote:

The reason I asked you if you could pinpoint the time in history for the story of Atlantis, was not an idle question.

Athens, which plays a major part in Plato's story, could not have existed as Plato describes it in 9,500 B.C. (Approx. era)

That was around 3,000 years prior to man's emerging from living in caves and rock shelters.

I fear that you could be mistaken here amigo, firstly by referring to one of your own statements:

As you know....anything is possible......well, almost anything.

...secondly that your timeline of when Man emerged from living in caves and rock shelters is off quite a bit - Jericho in the Holy Land dates back more than 11,000 years; several Euhominid settlements in Russia date back 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Doubtless there may well have been men still living in caves circa 6,500 BC and even up almost to modern times, but certainly other men were living in settlements well before this. For the benefit of our readers, here is what Plato had to say about Athens (and Greece) and why there was little trace of the former "proto-Greek" Athens in his own time:

The land was the best in the world, and was therefore able in those days to support a vast army, raised from the surrounding people. Even the remnant of Attica which now exists may compare with any region in the world for the variety and excellence of its fruits and the suitableness of its pastures to every sort of animal, which proves what I am saying; but in those days the country was fair as now and yielded far more abundant produce. How shall I establish my words? and what part of it can be truly called a remnant of the land that then was? The whole country is only a long promontory extending far into the sea away from the rest of the continent, while the surrounding basin of the sea is everywhere deep in the neighbourhood of the shore. Many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years, for that is the number of years which have elapsed since the time of which I am speaking; and during all this time and through so many changes, there has never been any considerable accumulation of the soil coming down from the mountains, as in other places, but the earth has fallen away all round and sunk out of sight. The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left. But in the primitive state of the country, its mountains were high hills covered with soil, and the plains, as they are termed by us, of Phelleus were full of rich earth, and there was abundance of wood in the mountains. Of this last the traces still remain, for although some of the mountains now only afford sustenance to bees, not so very long ago there were still to be seen roofs of timber cut from trees growing there, which were of a size sufficient to cover the largest houses; and there were many other high trees, cultivated by man and bearing abundance of food for cattle. Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying.

(From Critias by Plato)

Cactusjumper also wrote:

If you will address the problem with 9,500 B.C., we can proceed from that point with further discussion of the story of Atlantis. If you have not read Plato's "Republic", which preceeded "Timaeus", you will not have a clear picture of why Atlantis was created.

There is no problem with 9,500 BC, and I have read and re-read Plato's dialogues. (As well as most of the works of Aristotle, Plutarch, Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus, Arrian, Appian, Caesar, Pliny the Elder, Aelian, Strabo, Polybius, Livy, Tacitus, Xenophon, Homer, Josephus, Hesiod, Thucidydes, Virgil and others; currently hunting up a copy of Attic Nights by Aulus Gellius - I LOVE the so-called "classics" and own a fair collection of them.) The history of Atlantis was included as a moral lesson, however Plato certainly did not create it. (It is mentioned over 100 years before Plato's time in Herodotus. It is what the Atlantic ocean is named for, after all.)

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

i am going to leave you two to your topic , i have 108 pages more of data and over 300 more photos to send scott unless he wishes to give me a fair heiring to present my data and research to him in preson ...if he will agree i would like it to take place at the gathering with all of you there if possable , i am not wrong about this site or what it is ... i would welcome a open debate with you all ...

stay safe stay free

every now then someone comes around and has some real wild ideas , they even smiw up stream with theory few under stand , yet some of the greatest humans ever known have come from this odd group of thinkers ..


i am such a thinker ,,,we will find out if i am right about chicomoztoc ...good luck


stay safe stay free

 

[the blindbowman]

Roy,

______________________________________________
Cactusjumper wrote:

Quote
Hope all is well with you folks.

"Now in this island of Atlantis there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Atlantis had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia."

Can you pinpoint this time in history?

HI Joe! Yes all is well with us, been very busy of late so haven’t been able to devote so much time to irritating the good folks here on T-net. You ask a valid question – and I wrote up a way-too-long reply so have shortened it up, since it hit me that you must have read Plato as well – the easy answer is 9,500 BC (11,508 years ago for those who don’t want to do the math) which is a very interesting time period. So I must now respectfully disagree with Blindbowman’s date of 1500-1600 BC, on the basis that these dates do not agree with Plato, nor has the sea level changed all that much since then.
__________________________________________________

Cactusjumper wrote:

Quote
It has long been accepted that Atlantis is myth, created by the fertile imagination of Plato.

Accepted as myth by whom? Can you site some authorities who say this? Do you accept the conclusion of an encyclopedia or dictionary as the absolute, total and indisputable fact? Thank you in advance,
___________________________________________________

The reason I asked you if you could pinpoint the time in history for the story of Atlantis, was not an idle question.

Athens, which plays a major part in Plato's story, could not have existed as Plato describes it in 9,500 B.C. (Approx. era)

That was around 3,000 years prior to man's emerging from living in caves and rock shelters. Man existed by hunting and gathering. Even after man left the caves, civilization was slow in coming.

Two men who did not believe Plato's story was anything but fiction, were Aristotle and Plutarch. Plutarch labeled the story a "fable". You will have no trouble finding many others who believed it to be true.

If you will address the problem with 9,500 B.C., we can proceed from that point with further discussion of the story of Atlantis. If you have not read Plato's "Republic", which preceeded "Timaeus", you will not have a clear picture of why Atlantis was created.

Take care,

Joe

So I must now respectfully disagree with Blindbowman’s date of 1500-1600 BC, on the basis that these dates do not agree with Plato,


this is not a fixed date Cj it is out lineing a theory the was trying to define when Atantis had taken place by the data shown in the codex the fact is there just is not enough data to penpinot any era let alone define a dirrect date .. i came up with 3 or 4 close definements yet i did not work the data to a given date .. i felt the dates of 1500-1600bc had some related pionts . to the culture i am working on ... yet i know this culture spans as old as 13,500 bc to as early as 1500 AD . to try to define a culture that beleives its secerd past should remain isolated is a real handful and has take thousands of hour of hard work ,yet i could be off in relateing dates , because i am tracking culture threw time .relateing dates and a time line must come after the fact .. if possable at all ...

let me also say ...there is a logical reason i gave those wo dates .. one it is a common facter that most clear cut histroy is writen with in 500 years of a event , those plato was born in (428-347 B.C.) depending on what data you beleive is fact ..if he learned about the events from Pythagoras (c. 580 bc–c. 500 bc) as my research showed then , we can add 500 years to the date of about 530 .. when it would be most likely Pythagoras best years , so this would leave us a date around 1030 BC but the culture i am researching say it could have happend between the years of 1600bc -950 bc

the codex were drawn from a much older sorce they were drawn around the dates of 1595-1609 i can out right prove this ..because the bells of tayopa are in the codex and i know the time line of site 4 , we know the dates of when the tribes left chicomoztoc , it had to be after the event of the flood ,when the water went down .. the next question is there evidence of this or is there more then one flooding event that took place ..

the piont is the sorce was drawn before the 1500 AD and the culture dates to old as 13,500 bc ,the event could have taken place any time within those two dates ...i did not think you were real interested in the event it self or i would have not given a random set of dates .. i could refine the dates to a much closer logical choice ..


i can say one thing ,, Atlantis was there and was drawn in the codexs twice they show they did in fact know where it was ...the next question is there any records left at chicomoztoc that can prove these theories ...