The Covid crisis can be overcome with the gold of the galleons

If the Vatican and Sistine chapel with its contents collapsed into a pile of rubble would archaeologist be campaigning to build a fence around it so the pile of rubble and damaged contents are left insitu for future generations to monitor its slow destruction from the elements?
 

I was at Port Royal with Texas A&M in 1982 as a grad student, we didn't find any coins but a wide array of more interesting items like a pewter tankard, wooden table and my favorite: over 70 intact onion bottles some still had the wire around the neck..The tankard had opposing faces of William and Mary on the thumb piece. On the Whydah we found thousands of coins and after a while I found them almost boring, personal items to me are more interesting, like the sawed off musket and silk ribbon the pirates used as a sling for it.

WD
 

lukdiver said:
Back in the mid '80s I was delivering a 53' Van de Stadt sailboat with a girlfriend and we hung out at the hotel in Port Royal . The docks were being rebuilt by several brothers from Miami and I watched them 'wander' offshore while diving. Took awhile but eventually I was able to get their confidence and they told me they had made one trip to Miami to sell a shoebox of pieces of eight. Every coin shop they walked into the guy told them someone else had been there earlier selling the same vintage coins. His description matched one of the Texas A & M scientist that was staying at the hotel. Probably paying off his student loans instead of diving for 'science'. I've been jaded about archaeologist since then.
Click to expand...

I always say: where the gold is the devil is!
 

It is a known fact that Howard Carter, probably the most famous archaeologist in history, stole many items from the tomb of Tutankahmun. Just sayin'.
 

Alexandre. I am not saying that the treasures are recovered for profit! I am saying that given a "unique" or very serious economic situation, these "tangible assets" are used for social and humanitarian purposes. To this you have to answer and give your opinion, not to didactic discourses with concepts of archeology that we all already know. On social use, this example of this school, built with money taken from the treasury of the ship "Nuestra Señora de la Luz" in Montevideo. This went from being tangible to social use. Liceo2.jpg
 

Hey gents, at what do you put the over/under for number of shipwrecks this guy has discovered?

I am betting zero.

He doesn't find wrecks. He is incapable of finding wrecks.

But like all archaeologists, he is very interested in stealing yours.

We aren't pirates.

THEY ARE PIRATES
 

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Jolly Mon said:
But like all archaeologists, he is very interested in stealing yours.

We aren't pirates.

THEY ARE PIRATES
Click to expand...

Of course. Why do you think he is on Treasurenet?
 

Jolly Mon said:
Hey gents, at what do you put the over/under for number of shipwrecks this guy has discovered?

I am betting zero.

He doesn't find wrecks. He is incapable of finding wrecks.

But like all archaeologists, he is very interested in stealing yours.

We aren't pirates.

THEY ARE PIRATES
Click to expand...

Well, last time I counted I had searched for and found:

1) The 1782 HMS Pallas (Azores)

2) The 1878 Lidador (Azores)

3) The Angra B and D (both Spanish 16th century naos, Azores)

4) Angra C (Maybe Dutch hulk, mid 17th century, Azores)

5) The Nossa Senhora da Luz, 1615 Portuguese Eastindiaman, Azores

6) The Gomezianes, 1917, sunk by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

7) The Portuguese Navy Roberto Ivens, sunk 1917 by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

8) The Belinho wreck, an early 16th century Iberian ship, Portugal mainland

9) the Sao Francisco Xavier, Portuguese East Indiamen, sunk 1632, Portugal mainland

10) the Run'Her, a Confederate blockade runner, sunk 1864, Azores


I have also dove and worked in scores of Portuguese, American, Spanish and other nation's wrecks in Australia, Indonesia, Oman, Emirates, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Uruguay and Portugal. I have more than 3000 dives in archaeological context. I have picked gold and silver from the bottom of the seas, dismantled wrecks timber by timber and moved them out of harm's way, drawn stuff underwater till my fingers got numbed, raised anchors and iron cannons as well as bronze culverins from 135 feet deep, towed mags and sss from dawn to dusk, got half drown once.

I can also fluently read any archive document in French, Spanish, English and Portuguese.

But you are right - I am here to steal all your 1715 and 1733 shipwrecks, because these seem to be the only ones being discussed ad nauseam here.. ;)
 

I used to believe that it was the Spanish with perhaps Portugese navigators but that link says it was the Portugese 100%.

I don't believe in punishing the current generations for the sins of their forefathers, that's kind of a liberal/socialist weapon to lay guilt on people but protecting Mozambique from treasure hunters, yeah that kind of makes up for it.
 

The Portuguese first used Islamic slaves, that they captured on the Holy war. To this day, we have a saying for someone that works very hard, physically: "to work like a moor".

The African slave trade was built on the wilingness of African potentates to sell African people and on the Portuguese (Brazil) and Spanish (Cuba) need for slaves for the sugar plantation and mills.

When the South of the USA started to import African slaves, the slaver were mainly English and some French.


ROBOTCOP13 said:
I used to believe that it was the Spanish with perhaps Portugese navigators but that link says it was the Portugese 100%.

I don't believe in punishing the current generations for the sins of their forefathers, that's kind of a liberal/socialist weapon to lay guilt on people but protecting Mozambique from treasure hunters, yeah that kind of makes up for it.
Click to expand...
 

ROBOTCOP13 said:
I don't believe in punishing the current generations for the sins of their forefathers, that's kind of a liberal/socialist weapon to lay guilt on people but protecting Mozambique from treasure hunters, yeah that kind of makes up for it.
Click to expand...


On the early days it was not a sin. It was business.

The moral compass then did contemplate slavery was an everyday event. By the way, the word slave comes from the Slavs, white central and eastern european people enslaved since the Greek and Roman times up to the Ottomans.

And until the US Navy bombarded Tripoli, any white person could end up a slave on Barbary coast.
 

Alexandre said:
Well, last time I counted I had searched for and found:

1) The 1782 HMS Pallas (Azores)

2) The 1878 Lidador (Azores)

3) The Angra B and D (both Spanish 16th century naos, Azores)

4) Angra C (Maybe Dutch hulk, mid 17th century, Azores)

5) The Nossa Senhora da Luz, 1615 Portuguese Eastindiaman, Azores

6) The Gomezianes, 1917, sunk by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

7) The Portuguese Navy Roberto Ivens, sunk 1917 by a German Uboat, Portugal mainland

8) The Belinho wreck, an early 16th century Iberian ship, Portugal mainland

9) the Sao Francisco Xavier, Portuguese East Indiamen, sunk 1632, Portugal mainland

10) the Run'Her, a Confederate blockade runner, sunk 1864, Azores


I have also dove and worked in scores of Portuguese, American, Spanish and other nation's wrecks in Australia, Indonesia, Oman, Emirates, Mozambique, Cape Verde, Uruguay and Portugal. I have more than 3000 dives in archaeological context. I have picked gold and silver from the bottom of the seas, dismantled wrecks timber by timber and moved them out of harm's way, drawn stuff underwater till my fingers got numbed, raised anchors and iron cannons as well as bronze culverins from 135 feet deep, towed mags and sss from dawn to dusk, got half drown once.

I can also fluently read any archive document in French, Spanish, English and Portuguese.

But you are right - I am here to steal all your 1715 and 1733 shipwrecks, because these seem to be the only ones being discussed ad nauseam here.. ;)
Click to expand...


I was really bored so I spent about 10 minutes researching your claims:

1782 Pallas was salvaged by locals for well over one hundred years and is a well known wreck site.

Lidador, Angra B, C and D, Nossa Senhora da Luz and RunHer are all located within the Underwater Archaeological Park of the Bay of Angra do Heroísmo!!! You did not "find" any of them. They and many others were well known, thus the creation of the park.

And the rest? The "Portugal mainland" wrecks? All found washed up on the beach!!!:laughing7::hello2::tongue3:
 

I am impressed with your research skills.

I wish I had the internet and a comfy sofa back in the day. It would have been so much easier to find wrecks, all the work already being done. And the Angra Bay park, already created... It would had saved me all the trouble I had proposing its creation. ;)




Jolly Mon said:
I was really bored so I spent about 10 minutes researching your claims:

1782 Pallas was salvaged by locals for well over one hundred years and is a well known wreck site.

Lidador, Angra B, C and D, Nossa Senhora da Luz and RunHer are all located within the Underwater Archaeological Park of the Bay of Angra do Heroísmo!!! You did not "find" any of them. They and many others were well known, thus the creation of the park.

And the rest? The "Portugal mainland" wrecks? All found washed up on the beach!!!:laughing7::hello2::tongue3:
Click to expand...
 

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which 1715 wreck spots are which vessels --and why do you think so

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