The Case of the Missing Tree Stumps

[Armchair detective]

The platforms installed every 10 feet were presumably fir saplings? approximately 12-16 ft long and say 4-6 inches in diameter. Were they cut on the island, and if so where are the tree stumps?

 

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[releventchair]

The platforms installed every 10 feet were presumably fir saplings? approximately 12-16 ft long and say 4-6 inches in diameter. Were they cut on the island, and if so where are the tree stumps?

Thems bigger than saplings. Thems posts.

Pine rots fast. Softwoods rot before hardwoods. Cedar can hang in thier but feel free to study their cut stumps lifespans.

I've removed oak stumps from green to decades old in this yard.
Had family helping last spring on fresh maple stumps, sassafras and oak.
And I dug and cut down the road a couple years ago in a yard there.
When I state leaving a stump suits me I mean it.
Then I go work another one anyways.

Stumps snag plows. Trip livestock. Chock wheels.
How they are treated after cutting factors in speed of deterioration. Great whitepine stumps with much sap/resin and exposed to air last decades.

I bumped a decades old oak stump (big one) with a box blade on a tractor by accident and it is free. Pounded on others that gave up too.

But Oak Island glory hole timbers stumps? Long gone had they existed.
How they became gone can vary. Stump pulling machines powered by horse/mule /oxen worked. Lots of other ways to pull them.
Or burn them. Or salt them.
Small post sized pine type stumps though would fade fast. Seems odd but if you can dry roots (see salt/nitrate use) a stump fades faster. Smaller stumps=smaller root volume. Smaller integrity after cutting.

 

[Armchair detective]

Let's see. The Truro history says 6" wide spruce POSTS let's say 14 ft long, 11 levels makes 308 posts/stumps.
Did someone say there is the suggestion of an ancient road running east-west in the middle of the island, with belts of trees to the north and south sides of it? That's where I would have chopped my trees if I was hiding my activity.
Seems like even if the stump roots died there should be remnants which could be tree-ring dated.
Seems like it would be worth a look.

 

[n2mini]

Had someone gone looking for them 150-200 years ago they might have found some. No stump is going to last that long to find today.. I'm sure the Lagina Clan have walked that island over and over along with the Blankenships who lived on the island for years and guess Dave might still live there..

 

[Armchair detective]

You are probably correct but there is one more thing to consider.
When a Christmas tree is harvested, the stump can start growing again. THEORETICALLY it might be possible to find a tree with a different amount of tree rings in the stump vs the growth on top.

 

[releventchair]

You are probably correct but there is one more thing to consider.
When a Christmas tree is harvested, the stump can start growing again. THEORETICALLY it might be possible to find a tree with a different amount of tree rings in the stump vs the growth on top.

Nahh.
Second growth of pine isn't very common. Defects low tend to worsen with time too.
I've an oak (slower growing specie) example in the front yard about twenty years old. I deliberately cut it on a sharp angle after to shed water.
Rather than shrub out like a coppice subject , the stump is almost out of sight today. Another twenty you'd likely not know the tree was ever cut.

Maple are good example of second growth and water shoots.
Poplar by underground roots starting a colony.

But pine don't tolerate stumps only left to recover from.

And are you considering past residents that didn't want live or dead stumps left?

 

[Armchair detective]

 

[Armchair detective]

It doesn't seem impossible that second growth happens, and it looks like the growth itself spreads to protect the stump.
However, should the Laginas explore the island extensively, they would need to find a tree that is 15 to 20 feet wide to be a 200 year old tree. How could loggers ignore that?

 

[Armchair detective]

Okay I'm an idiot. Took this long to correct a math error.
The Internet says tree ring growth is .1 to .2
Inches diameter per year.
So using the average of .15, 200 years growth is 30 inches diameter, much different than 15 to 20 feet I said. Even a 400 year old tree would be only 5 feet diameter.
Also the foliage under the pictured trees doesn't look like spruce, and I happen to know a forest fire went through the area
about 50 years ago. It might make a difference in how trees regenerate?

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Okay I'm an idiot. Took this long to correct a math error.
The Internet says tree ring growth is .1 to .2
Inches diameter per year.
So using the average of .15, 200 years growth is 30 inches diameter, much different than 15 to 20 feet I said. Even a 400 year old tree would be only 5 feet diameter.
Also the foliage under the pictured trees doesn't look like spruce, and I happen to know a forest fire went through the area
about 50 years ago. It might make a difference in how trees regenerate?

Your reliance on the internet is flawed. tree growth is dependent on environment. In my area. A white oak tree measured 8” in 1868 might be 10” now. Other areas conifers might grow 1” in diameter per year! You have to core trees located in the environment to determine age.

 

[Armchair detective]

Your reliance on the internet is flawed. tree growth is dependent on environment. In my area. A white oak tree measured 8” in 1868 might be 10” now. Other areas conifers might grow 1” in diameter per year! You have to core trees located in the environment to determine age.

Thanks for the info. I was trying to get to the point of looking at a spruce tree and knowing by circumference how old it is.

So core an old spruce on the island, get growth rate, and start coring spruces high and low (then plugging them). If you could find a tree with a different number of tree rings high and low, THEORETICALLY you know when the log platforms were cut and installed in the pit (post #6).

Simple, what?

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Thanks for the info. I was trying to get to the point of looking at a spruce tree and knowing by circumference how old it is.

So core an old spruce on the island, get growth rate, and start coring spruces high and low (then plugging them). If you could find a tree with a different number of tree rings high and low, THEORETICALLY you know when the log platforms were cut and installed in the pit (post #6).

Simple, what?

Dendrochronology.
There are patterns in the growth rings that correspond to climatic events that affected all tree growth in that area (droughts or wet periods) or even worldwide in the case of Krakatoa. Have to count tree rings. you can core them.

 

[releventchair]

 

[releventchair]

 

[releventchair]

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Never heard of such a thing. I’m interested if anyone used such a contraption out west. I’m doubtful because the trees were so large.

 

[releventchair]

Never heard of such a thing. I’m interested if anyone used such a contraption out west. I’m doubtful because the trees were so large.

Horse/mule wound sized devices.
Or good ol dynamite.

 

[Limitool]

When I was very young I watched my Grandfather, my dad and 3 uncles use dynamite to level an old 2 story barn in Missouri. I watched from a large farmhouse window 50 yds. away inside the house. The window broke on the first blast... the next 2 blasts didn't matter. What a day...!

 

[Armchair detective]

You reminded me of a first post I ever made mentioning the possibility that the reason S Ball started farming cabbages was to have an obvious reason to pull all the stumps of all the 6" poles that were used to construct the levels in the MP (to conceal the MP activity). He could also keep an eye the cache whatever it was.
This tree dating double level differential method I invented (yeah I know) is not going to work if SB snatched all the stumps out of the ground.
For a long long shot one could take a look at SB's first farm. I understand it was NOT the same plot as the first lot he bought.

 

[n2mini]

SO are you saying SB dug the MP, or helped the guys find/dig it and found "something" to want/need to hide the stumps, yet atleast one of the guys advised on other peoples/companies digs. The stumps would help his story as far as getting paid to help on future digs...