The Book Club

[markmar]

Hal

Maybe one day I will do it .

 

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[Hal Croves]

I am an old man, please don't take too long to tell it, but when you do, I will be listening.
Then, we can compare notes.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hopefully I have demonstrated to some reasonable extent that Homes was not there at the time of Waltz's death, as his story claims. He may have know Waltz, he may have even paid him a visit while he was convalescing at Julias, but in Waltz's final moments, it seems doubtful that Dick was there. So, who do you think was there to hear his final words?

Well, I go back to Higham, who it seems was quite fond of Herman.

Julia Thomas - makes sense, as it was here place.
Rhieny Petrasch - seems credible enough, even shot himself in the head, perhaps out of grief for not being a better listener.
Albert Schaffer - Well it makes sense that he was there as he and Julia were married not too long after Waltz's death.
J.W. Carr - Still thinking about Mr. Carr - sorry.
J. W. Ryder - Well, again here Higham has done a less than perfect job at proofing his facts, but in his defense, research was a much more difficult task in his time. J.W. Ryder is, I believe, actually H.W. Ryder. Not a cabinet maker, but close. And look at his address.

Alright, I will now move on as the lack of replys to what I have posted to me suggests that there is nothing to debate. Which, I am hoping is a good thing.

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[Cubfan64]

A few reasons I haven't responded myself are:

1) Lots of new ideas to listen to and digest
2) More than a few things that I feel the need to look into/research myself to satisfy my own curiosity
3) I want to wait until the end of your points before starting any real dialogue so as not to throw the thread off track

 

[Hal Croves]

A few reasons I haven't responded myself are:

1) Lots of new ideas to listen to and digest
2) More than a few things that I feel the need to look into/research myself to satisfy my own curiosity
3) I want to wait until the end of your points before starting any real dialogue so as not to throw the thread off track

Thank you Cubfan64,
I made my point way earlier than I though that I would so, I don't mind hearing opinions or, if I am wrong, being told so. I don't mind being wrong also, however if what I am writing is wrong, and someone here knows it, well, I would hope that someone stops me before someone else takes what I have written for "fact". It is all just a guessing game until someone guesses right.

I feel that Herman is the real key and that through him, Waltz's hole can be found. Near it, there might be something worth getting one's hands on.
That sounds so odd.

 

[roadrunner]

I personally only have 1 book in my possession. I have read the few on Google books. I have read what all have said, and read a few at the library.
In my opinion I dont know who to believe, or what to believe. Only go with my heart and head.
As I said before. A lot of people are trying to figure out his real name,. and who was there at his bed side.

So,as I see it now, maybe 90% of his clues are fake, no one has any directions, starting point, ending point, or any point in between of where something should or should not be.
Then we have people or cowboys tipping over or destroying monuments that should tell us where to look, or individuals, and dutch hunters changing or defacing items.
Plus all the people stretching the truth, or down right lying.
So, I am still up in the air. But, so far I am following Hal.
I am reading and following Hal, honestly.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie B,
Paul, I believe was a Charter member of Mill Valley Aerie. That needs to be confirmed but I think that he flew with Eagles, not the band.
I am still looking..

Perhaps someone here knows the story behind this.

View attachment 926375

Hal,

Charter Members of Mill Valley Aerie, Mill Valley, California
The Eagles Hall in Sausalito was the site of the towns Grand Ball in connection with the September 9, 1890 Sausalito Municipal Water Supply and Admission Day Celebration (accord with the 1898 founding date of the FOE; possibly a local group called the Eagles preexisted the FOE in the City of Sausalito?). No other information about this Aerie is currently available.
Charter members of Mill Valley Aerie were drawn from the communities of Mill Valley, Sausalito, Belvedere, Tiburon, and Larkspur and included Dr. Andrew E. Thuesen, Fred W. Bagshaw, Jr., John J. Jackson, Edward G. Willis, David L. Arnst, Robert S. Young, Joseph A. Canct, Frank J. Filippi, Manuel D. Gomez, Fred L. Martin, Sheridan L. Stone, Fred Berick, Joseph M. Mendez, Bernie H. Welchon, Stuart Hilliard, Joseph E. Ritchie, Robert A. Manning, Alfred P. Gales, Charles L. Cole, Terry S. Moniz, Patsy Guagliano, Alexander P. Barden, Jr., Arthur W. Fontes, Charles W. Brown, Robert S. Hooper, Robert W. Whitehead, John W. Wisler, Ray Dippel, Richard H. Intemann, Lloyd J. Royer, Emil Plasberg, Antoni Arrigo, Lawrence P. Hendrix, Paul F. Otto, George C. Grosser, Joseph F. Bettencourt, William K. Beyries, Robert Beyries, Anthony L. Sapterio, Arthur W. Saunders, Rossworth C. Schiffing, Fred A. Schmidt, Homer E. Dolby, Antonio Bardea, Oacar W. Lauff, William E. Kennedy, Robert I. Gallagher, Wilber L. Greyerbiehl, Fred H. Kimrey; Russell G. Bond, Gus E. Freid, Lloyd E. Arrowsmith, Jr., Chester J. Haney, Donald E. Wentworth, Philip W. Smith, Lester H. Patterson, Granville L. Wyatt, Rolland J. Wyatt, Joseph G. Santos, Manuel G. Brazel, John G. Cooper, Sampsen W. Olsen, Brese E. Greyerbiehl, Charles D. McNeil, Lloyd F. Canham, William A. Canham, Jules W. Aubuchon, John J. O'Brien, Thomas R. Hobson, Jr., Fates D. Parteles, Paul C. Thorne, Arthur J. Russell, Frank R. Assin, Dr. Henry L. Lacoste, George D. Hoyle, James H. Haney, Robert B. Jackson, George L. Fallon, Romano Albertino, Ira C. Watts, Kenneth W. Edgar, Paul W.K. Crowley, Edgar Summers, Richard H. Finn, Samuel W. Jewell, Marvin S. Dahlquist, Frank B. DeRosa, Daniel T. Burns, George Teitjen, Albert D. Canet, Charles M. Parsons, John J. Santos, Jack E. Berg, Rowland B. Randolph, William R. Randolph, Edmund A. Owen, Edward J. Roll, Patrick E. Coleman, Frank L. Maguire, Robert M. Maguire, Frederick A. McDonald, William H. Fischer, Edwin Knell. Over 105 men joined the charter class of the new Mill Valley Aerie.

Why the name of Phoenix was actually chosen over other names.
THE ANCIENT ORDER OF EGYPTIAN SCIOTS, PHOENIX FREEMASONRY Very interesting history.


Ellie B.

 

[Cubfan64]

Why the name of Phoenix was actually chosen over other names.
View attachment 928589 THE ANCIENT ORDER OF EGYPTIAN SCIOTS, PHOENIX FREEMASONRY Very interesting history.


Ellie B.

Ellie,

Can you expand on this? What real reason are you referring to and how do the Ancient Order of Egyptian Sciots fit into that? From what I could tell, the Order wasn't formed until well after Phoenix was officially named?

 

[Ellie Baba]

Cubfan,

Freemasonry as we understand it today is one result of a long and rich history/evolutionary process of a secret society that began before the pyramids were built. As we all know this subject is very debatable and has caused great rifts throughout history involving religions, governments and the control of human nature. Bread crumbs along their evolutionary path can be traced and followed, but you must know what to look for.

The Sciots as you mentioned were organized after the founding of Phoenix and in all truth they were not formed because of Phoenix, Arizona. The Sciots were founded on a belief attributed to the symbol and its meaning. On the "Isle of Scion" in 1124 BC something happened of great importance that the Pharaoh of Egypt invited the group to visit his kingdom as he was very impressed with their actions of benevolence and brotherhood. This represents just one example of the Masonic evolutionary process.

These people were once the pyramid builders, the Knights Templar, the Jesuits, Knights of the Golden Circle and now we know them as the Freemasons. Kings, princes, governmental leaders, church officials, people with great wealth and the poor can be found among its ranks throughout all its history. The question that I pose is this; How many of its members both past and present command this gigantic entity? And, how many of its members do as they have been told without question? I would make a guess that 99% percent of its members do not know the whole truth of what this organization does and doesn't do, although each member is a busy bee doing exactly as he has been instructed without question and adheres to complete obedience. Adolf Hitler feared the Freemasons even more so than America entering the war, for you cannot defeat an unseen enemy; no one can. Power is the name of the game and those who controls the masses control both you and I.

We understand the circle of life and a food chain does exist. If you desire to know who is in control just locate the group of people with the biggest banks, the most intelligent people who desire to control everyone on this planet. Once you have accomplished that task all you need to do is discover what they all have in common. We are watching America crumble around us as these people orchestrate our government to force us to live as they dictate. Am I telling you the truth? Of course...just go back and take a look at history, any civilization, present or past. Hindsight is 20/20.

The PSM's and the LDM legend provide enough proof IMHO opinion that this organization is still hard at work. More later.

Ellie B

 

[Springfield]

... I must add that making up "history" and passing it off as factual is disturbing to honest historians...

What exactly is an "honest" historian? Once you get the names and dates right, the rest is spin.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

In case you have forgotten, telling a member he is not honest is an attack and violates our rules.....






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We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

oh yes..i forgot...in a discussion about the validity of historical works, I am not allowed an opinion as a historian.

posts removed. phoenix history will have nothing to fear from me.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

oh yes..i forgot...in a discussion about the validity of historical works, I am not allowed an opinion...

You know your not allowed to attack other TN members by calling or implying they are lying or dishonest.........






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We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

oh... for the record..i did not attack anyone or call them liars or dishonest.

I made a comment about factual history of arizona...history based on fact not supposition.

 

[Cubfan64]

The problem with bringing Freemasonry, KGC, Templars, etc... into these sorts of discussions is that they generally just don't lead anywhere productive. Those who are believers in the links and connections are adamant in their ideology, and those who don't believe, never see adequate proof to convince them otherwise - it ends in a stalemate most of the time.

 

[Cubfan64]

oh... for the record..i did not attack anyone or call them liars or dishonest.

I made a comment about factual history of arizona...history based on fact not supposition.

For what it's worth, I didn't see it as a personal attack either - just seemed like a statement regarding history and historians. I've seen LOTS worse personal accusations fly under the radar.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

oh... for the record..i did not attack anyone or call them liars or dishonest.

I made a comment about factual history of arizona...history based on fact not supposition.

So your excluding the post below you have since deleted.....

What exactly is an "honest" historian? Once you get the names and dates right, the rest is spin.

well...not you for one...

does that work for you?

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We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

yep...insult me all day...but pull trash out of the delete pile to prove I am the issue with the history of Arizona.

got it.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

here is the history of phoenix, and not one of the words is mine...let other historians professional and amateur provide some basis.

http://phoenixhistory.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

yep...insult me all day...but pull trash out of the delete pile to prove I am the issue with the history of Arizona.

got it.

It was not deleted when I read it...

I didn't insult you and I don't see where you have been insulted here by another member....

Please obey our rules.....






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We will NOT go quietly into the night!