The Apache of the Southwest of the States and northern Mexico...

[Crowfriend]

On the same boulder is this, my favorite painting. It has just about completly faded into time. I brought it back to life via photoshop. A man with the sun for a head. Gotta love that!

 

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[Injunbro]

Crowfriend's post bought another Native American 'name story' to mind.
Is it true in Native American culture that the name of a deceased person is not suppose to be mentioned in conversation?
If true, is that only Navajo tradition or common in other Native People's as well?

Also, if a Native person's name was/is based on an event (such as Geronimo), is every Native's name constantly changing as newer more noteworthy 'events' occur?
If so, it seems it could get confusing say when trying to identify a person not present, whose name may have evolved and where that single individual may be known by different names to different speakers.

Maybe Injunbro or Crowfriend (or whatever their names are today. ) can shed some light on this?

Two of my personal favorites were Darkmoon Cliffdweller (Navajo) and Golden (Apache), an appropriate name for this LDM site.

Earnie: The traditional belief is using the name of a deceased is calling their spirits back instead of allowing them to rest in peace. Nicknames are common & change often, a friend currently calls me "guide who walks w/ a white-tipped cane", I call him "henpecked one w/ a walker". These names are all to razz each other & will likely change the next time we meet, they relate to an amusing incident since I'm not blind & he's not crippled. I once was called "turtle" since I'm short-legged & big bodied. Nicknames or an event that identifies the person are used instead of common names, however 'true names' are seldom given since it gives you power over them. Geronimo's name was not that but refers to an incident he pulled on some of Don Jose's friends in Mexico on Saint Jerome's Day. Out of respect I won't use either Geronimo's or Cochise's true names but will say one means "yawner" & the other "stronger than oak".

 

[Crowfriend]

Inside the cave mentioned by Injunbro is this grinding boulder. I found another just like it on the flats about half mile west of this site. Both have the grinding holes placed in such a way that, to me anyway, they are heads or skulls. I put water in the sockets and floated small leafs for pupils but I don't think it worked out the way I wanted it to look.

 

[Injunbro]

Just around the corner from the Gans dancers is are 2 upside down men painted in black. This indicates 2 men died here, & the Gans indicate the place has had the proper ceremonies to purify it so it's not haunted by their spirits. Yes, I know who they were, whose Hataali performed the ceremony & where they're buried. No, I won't share the grave locations. Although I'm Christian I respect their beliefs.

 

[Crowfriend]

At the same site is this boulder with the little pool of water in front of it. If you lay on your back and crawl into the little space at the lower left side of it, you will see more pictographs hidden there.

 

[Injunbro]

Inside the cave mentioned by Injunbro is this grinding boulder.

View attachment 1373905

We call this "Mrs. Cochise's kitchen" where his senior wife & daughters prepared food. "Cochise's bedroom" is an adjoining cave. He was spending a lot of time there when General Howard & Captain Sladen met w/ him but could barely eat. He died a couple years later of stomach cancer. From the top of the rock he made a nearly 1,000 yard shot to kill an antelope w/ his .50 Sharps rifle while Howard & Sladen watched in disbelief. The Sharps, a Henry & a Colt are buried w/ him. No, I won't discuss the burial site.

 

[Crowfriend]

Injunbro, do you know about this photo? Alice Crane cajoled Tom Jeffords to take her to the treaty site in 1895. He said it was at this boulder where the Chief camped with his band and the General. So she took a photo of it. She then sent it to Sladen and he confirmed it. It has remained with the Sladen family until a few years ago when it resurfaced. I made a copy and searched until I found it. The cone shaped hill is where the flag was posted when the treaty was ratified. This boulder is north of what you call Cochise's rock, about a mile of so, just to the right of the entrance to the west stronghold.

 

[Crowfriend]

Below the Chief's treaty boulder are these three boulders. They are the boulders whereby the Chief proclaimed that they represent himself, General Howard, and Tom Jeffords and as long as they remain, so shall the treaty. We know how that went. Four years and poof -no more treaty. The old photo was taken by Robert Forbes, a man associated with the U of A, around 1918 I think. Forbes was shown the site by the old Cochise County stalwart, Billy Fourr. Fourr had a ranch there in the 1800's. He must have been on good relations with the Indians to have been left alone by them. The newer photo is mine but you probably knew that.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Would - be - Orishman. . you posted ----- I'm Christian I respect their beliefs.---- As it should be my friend..

 

[Injunbro]

Crowfriend, I've never seen that photo before but have seen the rocks. This is where Howard & Sladen camped. The Apaches, as skittish as ever didn't quite trust Whites getting too close although Naiche stayed in the Whites camp. Sladen took a real liking to Naiche (who was still a kid) & gave him a pocketknife he still had decades later.
Don Jose, of course!... I even respect your right to admit to being Oirish.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Gracias injunbro,

 

[markmar]

Injunbro

I would like to have an Apache nickname . Can you give me one ? Would be my honor .

 

[cactusjumper]

Injunbro

I would like to have an Apache nickname . Can you give me one ? Would be my honor .

Marius,

Perhaps you could be chishgahi, and Injunbro could be Batman?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Injunbro]

Injunbro

I would like to have an Apache nickname . Can you give me one ? Would be my honor .

Certainly, this will be fun (I hope you're thick-skinned). What do you look like & what's the most embarrassing thing you've ever done? What's the most embarrassing thing you've done lately?

 

[Injunbro]

By the way Crowfriend, the Apaches camped around Cochise's Rock were scattered for close to 2 miles. Some friends I took there recently asked how many there were & I replied 300 or so some of the time. Then they asked "all crammed in this little valley? They must have been really close together!".... Uh, no they were ultra independent & were scattered through the rocks & across the grasslands, up in the canyons, some along the creek... They'd learned a long time ago not to bunch up, would scatter like quail @ any threat & regroup flanking any invaders.

 

[Injunbro]

A note about Billy Fourr's ranch: Billy came to the ranch site in October 1979, after Cochise's death, the Chiricahua Reservation was closed & most of the Apaches were put on the concentration camp called San Carlos. Geronimo & others continued the scrap @ times but usually headed to the Sierra Madre ignoring the Fourr ranch. Ulzanna hit the area once in passing but was mostly taking horses in the San Pedro valley. Billy was a character who filed a 160 acre homestead but didn't actually prove it up for decades, threatened Congress w/ his shotgun when they formed the Nat'l Forest & refused to give the Dragoon Mtn.s to him (nearly went to the pen that time), ran woodcutters out of the mountains he illegally claimed (nearly got shot that time) & finally ended up w/ 1,280 acres of private land in the flats plus a lot of lease lands.

 

[nobodie]

If I had a nickname it would be KNOCK ON WOOD :-) , for good luck.

 

[markmar]

Marius,

Perhaps you could be chishgahi, and Injunbro could be Batman?

Take care,

Joe

Joe

What means " chishgahi " ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

What means " chishgahi " ?

Marius,

I am not Apache, nor do I speak the language. Perhaps injunbro will give you a better name. Why do you want an Apache nickname? Apache give their babies names that relate to something unique to the child or something that happens later in life to change the name. Geronimo must have been a yawner, as that was the meaning of his original name.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Certainly, this will be fun (I hope you're thick-skinned). What do you look like & what's the most embarrassing thing you've ever done? What's the most embarrassing thing you've done lately?

I didn't expect to ask me something in exchange for the nickname . I am not ready to make a confession about things I have done in my life .
But I have not problem to show you what do I look like .

Coffee on the beach , summer 2011 .



Ontario Place , Toronto 2009