IPUK. you -osted -- Don really is going to be after you for suggesting that even Jeffords never thought much of the Mexicans..
Cortez and his followers killed all of the fighting class of indians, the rest they put into Ecomendarios where the indian came with the land, where they faced the death penalty for leaving without permsion. They evetually bred the
spark out of them/
For instance my wife' s part indian, Michoacan or somewhere similar,--------- thank god not apache
------------ They talk a good fight but .
These are the people that are the drug runners etc
These are the type of people that the Apache gained their rep with. Sorta like a fox in a hen house,but when they came up against the rebel tribes,they didn't fare so well. Even the peaceful Pimas stomped them.
These are the people that are streaming across our borders and in the drug and arms smuggling groups, their jefes have the male appendages, the lower ones a lil bit, but they can be mean.
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Don,
You claim against "peaceful injuns, the Apache was like a fox in a hen house."
Really?
I have come across many statements, boasts, testimonies and 'facts' where the differing tribes and people talk about how the whooped 'the other' and were never ever bothered again or were feared greatly by there enemies. Then....., if we start critically examining and cross-referencing all that is before us, a paradox starts emerging.
The Apache reputation was mentioned by the very first Spanish who set foot in northern present-day Mexico and the Southwest of the States. Some said that they were wild and savage, others that they were helpful and not a menace. All agreed that they were considered the top boys in their 'hoods. I would gladly provide the details of those pesky things called "books" where all of the relevant evidence exists, but I am at work and furthermore, my Apache 'stuff' has been stored.
The Mexicans would crap themselves when confronted with Apache and
every contemporary book I've read by travellers, military officials and even adventurers, clearly state that the Apache were responsible for the inability of the homeys south of the border, not utilising their land and being in a constant state of fear and anxiety. Where do you think the stereotype of the "poor, simple, pacifist, hard done by Mex peon" derives from?
A relatively small number of Apache was responsible for this.
Now with whitey, who made war with them after the Bascom Incident and waged it unrelentingly with a small number of warriors for well over a decade and whitey didn't see a single glimpse of him until the man himself decided to meet with General Howard?
Huge swathes of Arizona and New Mexico were dangerous to travel in because of this formidable foe. Who else made such an impact...?
In the 1880s when most of the other injuns and even the majority of the Apache had accepted their lot under whitey, Chiricahuas under Nana, Chato and Ulzana led legendary raids that made national headlines at the time...?
This was not all imagined, the stuff went down and the Chiricahua were responsible. It wasn't for nothing that even after 27 years in captivity and so many tragic upheavals and losses, they was still feared in Arizona that they might return and resume their former life. In the end less than 300 Chiricahua, mostly born and/or raised as POWs, still caused such a stir...
Consult the journals, diaries and even books of the army men and officers who were tasked with bringing in the renegade/free Chiricahua, and see what they have to say. The Pima, Papagoe, Navajo and other scouts were always considered no match for the Chiricahua, and all those that fought with them, said the Apache - particularly the Chiricahua in later years - proved to be the best in ending the hostilities.
No other people in those mountains and deserts made such an impact.
IPUK
Maybe that nice little lady you married & is 1/2 your age will help w/ the big words! Of course everyone knows I'm as innocent & pure as the wind driven snow! However, just to show there's no hard feelings about your thoughtless slander I'll give you a nice western Apache nickname: "aya`hahi Joe hik`e dzadeezi a`i dalohts`qqs le`" (ignorant little Joe & mule that kisses each other). 
