The Answer Rest Here

[ECS]

Not a chance it is true as written....and we all know that. That much has been conclusively established already.

Reminds of Henry Littlefield's essay on the WIZARD OF OZ as an allegory on the gold standard and populism.
At lot of solid research of what L Frank Baum really meant.
The Wizard of Oz as a satirical allegory of money and politics in 1900

 

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[bigscoop]

Well, while you're busy twisting your head off allow me to toss in a few more twist for you. "Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and Chief Justice Marshall." Sure, they held connection to, in some way, to the Second Bank of America, but, did you also know that all of them were also slave owners? Now at this point you might be absolutely confused as to how slavery can possibly be related to the Second Bank so allow me to follow this up by providing this basic information for you;

"Opposition to the bank's revival emanated from two interests. Old Republicans, represented by John Taylor of Caroline and John Randolph of Roanoke[SUP][35][/SUP] characterized the Second Bank of the United States as both constitutionally illegitimate and a direct threat to Jeffersonian agrarianism, state sovereignty and the institution of slavery, expressed by Taylor's statement that "...if Congress could incorporate a bank, it might emancipate a slave"

So as you can see, the Second Bank was also seen as a direct threat to southern values and the institution of slavery, this political hotbed being present long before those other events that lead up to the Civil War. In fact, when we do a quick check of the Bank's books it becomes obvious that the south and west were noticeably reluctant in supporting the bank. But don't take my word for it that all of this is connected to the Beale paper story. You always have the option of researching all of this for yourselves.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, while you're busy twisting your head off allow me to toss in a few more twist for you. "Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and Chief Justice Marshall." Sure, they held connection to, in some way, to the Second Bank of America, but, did you also know that all of them were also slave owners? Now at this point you might be absolutely confused as to how slavery can possibly be related to the Second Bank so allow me to follow this up by providing this basic information for you;

"Opposition to the bank's revival emanated from two interests. Old Republicans, represented by John Taylor of Caroline and John Randolph of Roanoke[SUP][35][/SUP] characterized the Second Bank of the United States as both constitutionally illegitimate and a direct threat to Jeffersonian agrarianism, state sovereignty and the institution of slavery, expressed by Taylor's statement that "...if Congress could incorporate a bank, it might emancipate a slave"

So as you can see, the Second Bank was also seen as a direct threat to southern values and the institution of slavery, this political hotbed being present long before those other events that lead up to the Civil War. In fact, when we do a quick check of the Bank's books it becomes obvious that the south and west were noticeably reluctant in supporting the bank. But don't take my word for it that all of this is connected to the Beale paper story. You always have the option of researching all of this for yourselves.

AGAIN; WHAT years are YOU "chatting" about...?

 

[ECS]

.... But don't take my word for it that all of this is connected to the Beale paper story. ...

I don't, for you have not provided a direct connection, just history lessons and a whole lot of speculation.

 

[bigscoop]

I don't, for you have not provided a direct connection, just history lessons and a whole lot of speculation.

You are oh so wrong again and again. Those connections have been made are still being made, you just wish to continue to deny them despite those mounting and supported connections before you.

By the way, did you know it is a matter of record that Steven Girard had a ship built specifically for his Galvestion Island business partners? It's all true, was all set to embark to Galveston as soon as it hit the water. But this is clearly more twist that if consumed now might actually cause your spinning head to pop completely off.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You are oh so wrong again and again. Those connections have been made are still being made, you just wish to continue to deny them despite those mounting and supported connections before you.

By the way, did you know it is a matter of record that Steven Girard had a ship built specifically for his Galvestion Island business partners? It's all true, was all set to embark to Galveston as soon as it hit the water. But this is clearly more twist that if consumed now might actually cause your spinning head to pop completely off.

STOP the insults; just give us the info & YEARS, please...

 

[bigscoop]

STOP the insults; just give us the info & YEARS, please...

No insults, just the typical fun and games. Nearly everything I'm referencing was/is pre 1830's with most of the stuff taking place during the effected periods of the Beale papers or those years leading up to it all.

 

[ECS]

You are oh so wrong again and again. Those connections have been made are still being made, you just wish to continue to deny them despite those mounting and supported connections before you.
By the way, did you know it is a matter of record that Steven Girard had a ship built specifically for his Galvestion Island business partners? It's all true, was all set to embark to Galveston as soon as it hit the water. But this is clearly more twist that if consumed now might actually cause your spinning head to pop completely off.

...and where is Stephen Girard, or for that matter Galveston or ships mentioned in the Beale Papers?
Again and again you make speculative claims or vague statements of alleged connections to the Beale treasure tale, but when push comes to shove you never substantiate, you just throw out more names with no explanation.
The only thing spinning here are your tales of improbable connection to Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

No insults, just the typical fun and games. Nearly everything I'm referencing was/is pre 1830's with most of the stuff taking place during the effected periods of the Beale papers or those years leading up to it all.

TY!

 

[bigscoop]

...and where is Stephen Girard, or for that matter Galveston or ships mentioned in the Beale Papers?
Again and again you make speculative claims or vague statements of alleged connections to the Beale treasure tale, but when push comes to shove you never substantiate, you just throw out more names with no explanation.
The only thing spinning here are your tales of improbable connection to Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers.

On several occasions I have directed you to specific and direct connections between both Texas, Richmond, Bedford, and even to the undeniable sources of the deposits. Mexico Sherman is one such "very direct" connection not only to Bedford and Texas but also to the occupants and "business" enterprises of that region and even John Sherman himself. Mexico Sherman was just one byproduct of the different "businesses" that were underway at Galveston Island that also held "direct" business relations with men like Steven Girard, Patterson, and others, and various institutions like the Second Bank of America. If you had done your followup homework you would also know that Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and Chief Justice Marshall were also all slave owners and that during the period the Lynchburg/Bedford was also home to open slave markets, many of these slaves having come from the Saint Louis region, most likely the reason for these men "and others no less distinguished" being referenced as having relations with the Morriss establishment. So in just these few names we now have six direct connections that have been referenced in the Beale pamphlet, all of them also being directly connected to the various "business" affairs in the Texas region, which brings us to the author's use of the spelling, "connexions." And, all of these individuals were also connected to those, "important business affairs in Richmond." To understand why the party didn't trust banks you have to understand all the above, once you do you'll understand the reasons why there was a need for a third party, such as Morriss, but more importantly, you'll understand why Thomas J. Beale WAS NOT the man calling the shots and why he didn't know "exactly" what was contained in the ciphers. This is also the very reason why a pamphlet was produced in search of that missing "unintelligible piece of paper" relating to wealth "that no longer existed" in the first place. But by "all means" don't take my word for it, as you do have other options.

If you want to find the correct Thomas J. Beale then all one needs to do is to look in Jackson Ward in "Richmond, Virginia", as he was still advertising his presence in 1884, just one prior to the publication of the pamphlet. And here again, you have yet another direct and "exacting" connection to the Beale Papers.

PS: I fully understand the reluctance of those who hesitate to investigate these matters for themselves as no doubt it would require years of investigation and research into all sorts of new and time consuming arenas. But if there is alternate truth to the Beale papers then might I suggest that that truth is not going to be found by the continued rehashing of the same old materials and typical avenues. For sue, folks are going to have to depart from what is familiar to them.

 

[ECS]

... if there is alternate truth to the Beale papers then might I suggest that that truth is not going to be found by the continued rehashing of the same old materials and typical avenues. For sue, folks are going to have to depart from what is familiar to them.

With all of your circumstantial history connections, you still can not definitely disprove that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was nothing more than a western treasure adventure dime novel drawn from events of the extended Risqué family bloodline with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment for the Lynchburg purchasers.

 

[bigscoop]

With all of your circumstantial history connections, you still can not definitely disprove that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was nothing more than a western treasure adventure dime novel drawn from events of the extended Risqué family bloodline with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment for the Lynchburg purchasers.

Like I said, you have much easier and simpler options in the continued denying of all that has been placed before you. If you wish to continue to believe that the Adams Onis Treaty contained references to the two undeniable sources of wealth in the Texas region that your author allegedly read about in grandpa Risque's library then that is your choice, but, I have never seen or read such reference in all of my review of this treaty, nor do I know of anyone else who has. Again, if an alternate truth is ever to be discovered then no doubt folks are going to have to detach themselves from all of the redundant romance and lore surrounding the publication. Here is yet another interesting bit of information for you, should you be so inclined to take interest in it, which I seriously doubt.

"The U.S. claim was for return of, or compensation for, slaves that were in British territory or on British naval vessels when the treaty was signed. The Treaty of Ghent article in question was about handing over property, and the U.S. claimed that these slaves were the property of U.S. citizens." Britain did eventually agree to compensate for the loss of these possessions. Also as part of this treaty, a specific territory along the Rocky Mountains was also a source of hot issue, especially for the Americans, this also being an area of the same general hot issue during the Adams Onis Treaty. So, you can either continue to keep things as romantic and as simple as possible or you can opt to entertain those things that are far more complex and complicated and documented. Up to you, really.

At the center of all of this was James Monroe, both Issac and Edward Coles having served as his personal secretary. in 1829 Joseph Bonaparte sends letter of inquiry to Monroe from Richmond Virginia regarding payments for services rendered, in reply Monroe does not deny that services were rendered but only that "promises" were made to make payment. The documented evidence and connections before is piling up so heavily on all sides that very soon now you will no longer have view of any horizons.Perhaps now you might be able to draw upon clearer line as to why Monroe really sent George Graham into the Texas region, not because of just one treaty, but because of two.

 

[ECS]

... If you wish to continue to believe that the Adams Onis Treaty contained references to the two undeniable sources of wealth in the Texas region.., but, I have never seen or read such reference in all of my review of this treaty, nor do I know of anyone else who has...

Once again, I have never stated that Adams-Onis had anything to do with the source of wealth in the Texas region, but you, my friend have alluded to that many times.
Are you modifying your theory once again?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Like I said, you have much easier and simpler options in the continued denying of all that has been placed before you. If you wish to continue to believe that the Adams Onis Treaty contained references to the two undeniable sources of wealth in the Texas region that your author allegedly read about in grandpa Risque's library then that is your choice, but, I have never seen or read such reference in all of my review of this treaty, nor do I know of anyone else who has. Again, if an alternate truth is ever to be discovered then no doubt folks are going to have to detach themselves from all of the redundant romance and lore surrounding the publication. Here is yet another interesting bit of information for you, should you be so inclined to take interest in it, which I seriously doubt.

"The U.S. claim was for return of, or compensation for, slaves that were in British territory or on British naval vessels when the treaty was signed. The Treaty of Ghent article in question was about handing over property, and the U.S. claimed that these slaves were the property of U.S. citizens." Britain did eventually agree to compensate for the loss of these possessions. Also as part of this treaty, a specific territory along the Rocky Mountains was also a source of hot issue, especially for the Americans, this also being an area of the same general hot issue during the Adams Onis Treaty. So, you can either continue to keep things as romantic and as simple as possible or you can opt to entertain those things that are far more complex and complicated and documented. Up to you, really.

At the center of all of this was James Monroe, both Issac and Edward Coles having served as his personal secretary. in 1829 Joseph Bonaparte sends letter of inquiry to Monroe from Richmond Virginia regarding payments for services rendered, in reply Monroe does not deny that services were rendered but only that "promises" were made to make payment. The documented evidence and connections before is piling up so heavily on all sides that very soon now you will no longer have view of any horizons.Perhaps now you might be able to draw upon clearer line as to why Monroe really sent George Graham into the Texas region, not because of just one treaty, but because of two.

YOU "chatting" about "BLACK" Gold (SLAVES), then...? Hmmm...

 

[ECS]

Not a chance it is true as written....and we all know that. That much has been conclusively established already.

So on one level you agree that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is an "authentic" dime novel.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

So on one level you agree that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is an "authentic" dime novel.

Is that not what the NSA has said it is all along ?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Is that not what the NSA has said it is all along ?

Eh...?

 

[bigscoop]

Once again, I have never stated that Adams-Onis had anything to do with the source of wealth in the Texas region, but you, my friend have alluded to that many times.
Are you modifying your theory once again?

.....weak attempt at a dodge. You clearly stated, when asked how your author knew about those two undeniable sources of wealth, that he had read about them in grandpa Risque's library while reading about the Adams Onis Treaty.

Look, you're obviously attempting to debate subjects and histories and issues that you're not all that up to speed on. I don't know much about agriculture, for example, so I don't think I'll be debating the issue the finer points of growing crops with a farmer.

 

[bigscoop]

So on one level you agree that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is an "authentic" dime novel.

No...not at all. I believe there is middle ground, a source that can contain "authentic statements" masked by some related fiction. And here you go again, completely sold on the notion that Ward was the author when there is nothing conclusive to substantiate that conclusion other then the fact that you think Ward read about those two undeniable sources of wealth while reading about the Adams Onis Treaty in grandpa Risque's library.

 

[bigscoop]

YOU "chatting" about "BLACK" Gold (SLAVES), then...? Hmmm...

It's complicated, impossible to explain in short exchanges other then to say that the answer isn't as simple as we would all like it to be. Slavery, as example, was a main source of business coming out of Galveston Island and its tentacles were far-reaching and of constant national concern and debate. To give you an idea just how huge and impacting the slave trade was, as part of the terms of compensation in the Treaty of Ghent (1818) the British eventually agreed to restorations of over 1.2mil dollars. It might also surprise you to know that one of the major US representatives in reaching this treaty agreement was the ambassador to, "France" and that an arbitrator from Russia eventually arrived at this final figure. So when we think of these treaties between the US and Spain and the US and the British we have to also realize that these treaties were also of international interest and influence as well.