The Abbey Bee

[Jolly Mon]

Out of the many seizures made by the East Gulf Squadron from Dec, 22nd 1862 to July 17th 1865, these are the only times gold, silver or specie is listed as cargo on an outbound blockade runner:

click to enlarge

Usually the cargo is simply listed as cotton, turpentine, etc.
This does nor prove anything of course, but it is suggestive.
After all, guys like Levy and Trenholm were in the blockade running business to make money, not give it away.
If you knew there was a 33% chance a vessel would be seized by the Union on an outbound trip, how much gold and silver would you put aboard?? Probably as little as possible...perhaps just enough to be handled by the Captain and mate in the event of a capture.
Also, many blockade runners have been found and at least partially salvaged. I am not aware of a single instance where a large amount of gold and silver has been found as cargo. I could be very wrong about this, and would love to hear about it if I am.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[ECS]

In the reports posted by Jolly Mon,the amount of gold found on the captured blockade runners was less than $2000 in specie.If one studies the gold payments made from Cuba for "Cow Calvary" cracker "beeves" shipped out of Punta Rassa,the average payment was around $12,000 in Spanish and Cuban gold specie.
Below is an article concerning gold during the Civil War:
Gold in the American Civil War

 

[sabre15]

So who really knows how much gold is out there. Interesting article, how many schooners went down and not recovered, $2000 or even $1000 in gold and silver back then is still a pretty amount today! I would like to find an old schooners lockbox.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Finding an untouched blockade runner would be fantastic. There would certainly be interesting relics and potentially some valuable coins as well, of this there is no doubt. But we are surely a long way off from the $20 million dollar ship mentioned at the beginning of this thread !!

My thoughts are that the earlier the runner was lost, the more likely the ship might have been carrying a substantial amount of gold and silver aboard. After all, you were very unlikely to be caught running the blockade in 1862...it wasn't until November of 1861 that the Union established a southern base for the South Atlantic Blockading Squadron at Port Royal. That the blockade eventually became so effective is a real tribute to the US Navy of the time, because it was far from an easy task to seal off 3500 miles or so of coastline...

As far as specie payments for cargo, just because Agent X paid $100,000 dollars in specie for Cargo Y at Havana...it does not follow that the specie necessarily was carried aboard an outward bound blockade runner. The monies might well have been drawn from a northern bank and shipped aboard a US vessel. Business, after all, is business. And the shipping magnates in the American South had lots of contacts and partners all over the world. Why risk sending $100,000 in coin out of Charleston or Wilmington when you could send it out aboard an American flagged vessel sailing from New York or Boston?

 

[ivan salis]

ok 2000 dollars lets say in gold --100 20 dollar gold pieces * each at say 3/4th of an oz of gold --that's 75 oz of gold at say 1500 an oz -- that alone is 105,000 dollars of todays money and that's at the "raw gold value" not the coin collectors valkue or "historic civil war confederate used money coin" value

 

[Jolly Mon]

ok 2000 dollars lets say in gold --100 20 dollar gold pieces * each at say 3/4th of an oz of gold --that's 75 oz of gold at say 1500 an oz -- that alone is 105,000 dollars of todays money and that's at the "raw gold value" not the coin collectors valkue or "historic civil war confederate used money coin" value

A very valuable cargo by today's standards, no doubt. A Double Eagle of the period weighed almost exactly an ounce, so you are talking about 6 pounds of treasure...why on earth would a captain leave it aboard? It would fit in a fairly small purse. It would fit in a few pockets...unless the crew was killed in a sudden explosion or something similar, they would have taken it with them when they left the vessel. Remember, the capture of an outbound blockade runner is a substantially different scenario than a vessel sinking in a unexpected storm. Many times the crew would have been able to escape in a ship's boat or even by swimming. 100 gold coins is quite a "moveable feast". A blockade running captain would have a contingency plan for the possibility of being pursued and captured. He would, in fact, ultimately expect it. I think the average blockade runner made 4 successful trips before being captured or sunk. We are not talking about a big treasure chest stuck down in the hold...we are talking about 6 pounds of coins...every effort would have been made to remove the money from the vessel prior to sinking or scuttling...it is simply the last thing the crew would leave aboard.

I do not have "galleonitis". I primarily look for small boats and ships in the backwaters and have made some great finds of coins and artifacts...sometimes on wrecks that are really nothing more than small boats. So I am not trying to be negative or dissuade anyone from attempting to find such a vessel. I just think it is wise to be realistic about what might possibly be aboard.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/navy-hub/navy-history/the-blockade-runners.html

 

[Salvor6]

Ivan no one would sell an 1860 double eagle gold coin for bullion weight. The 1860 $20 gold coin in MS55 condition (thats not mint condition) is selling for $4,000 to $5,000 today. If it were MS 63 (still not MS65 mint condition) it is worth $22,000. If there was a 1865-O (New Orleans mint) coin in that pile, its worth $70,000. Go to PCGS.com and look up their coin values. So 100 1860 double eagle gold coins would be worth a minimum of $400,000 today. Not shabby!

 

[old man]

Ivan no one would sell an 1860 double eagle gold coin for bullion weight. The 1860 $20 gold coin in MS55 condition (thats not mint condition) is selling for $4,000 to $5,000 today. If it were MS 63 (still not MS65 mint condition) it is worth $22,000. If there was a 1865-O (New Orleans mint) coin in that pile, its worth $70,000. Go to PCGS.com and look up their coin values. So 100 1860 double eagle gold coins would be worth a minimum of $400,000 today. Not shabby!

Pete that's not shabby at all. You should get John's old friend with his detection equipment to to try and locate the ship and then bring in the sub with the lock out chamber.

 

[aquanut]

Pete that's not shabby at all. You should get John's old friend with his detection equipment to to try and locate the ship and then bring in the sub with the lock out chamber.

Piece of cake!

 

[ECS]

Ivan no one would sell an 1860 double eagle gold coin for bullion weight. The 1860 $20 gold coin in MS55 condition (thats not mint condition) is selling for $4,000 to $5,000 today. If it were MS 63 (still not MS65 mint condition) it is worth $22,000. If there was a 1865-O (New Orleans mint) coin in that pile, its worth $70,000. Go to PCGS.com and look up their coin values. So 100 1860 double eagle gold coins would be worth a minimum of $400,000 today. Not shabby!

Not to dampen spirits,but it would be a long shot to find US double eagles on any sunken CSA blocakade runner vessel.As noted on other posts,most runners carried goods to the Bahamas to satisfy CSA bonds to England.Now there is a chance than a few may have had on board Mexican silver dollars,or Spanish or Cuban gold coins.
Yes,we have all tales of lost Confederate gold in Florida,from Steinhatchee to the Everglades,but most of them are just that,tales that have become legends,like the Abbey Bee-when researched and studied,they all evaporate into the mist of lore.
Yes,some are based on events,but the actual events did not include vast amounts of gold.
What occured in Florida during the War of Northern Aggression has been ignored by most history books,but Florida,the 3rd to succeed from the Union had its battles on sea and on land,was a supplier of cotton,salt,turpentine,pork,cattle,sugar,and whiskey to the Confederacy,and was the escape route of many Confederates.
Many of the tales of gold came from these events as an embellishment,told and retold,and the truth became lost in the vapors of telling.

 

[Salvor6]

ECS you said yourself that the cattle dealers did not accept Confederate paper money for their cattle. What else than American gold coins did they accept for payment?

 

[ivan salis]

they accepted --gold or silver coinage of several counties --no problem * but paper money --esp confederate money later on in the war --no way

 

[ECS]

ECS you said yourself that the cattle dealers did not accept Confederate paper money for their cattle. What else than American gold coins did they accept for payment?

As I stated before,Mexican silver dollars,and Spanish and Cuban gold coins were accepted by Jacob Summerlin,cracker cowboy,who later,after the War loaned Orlando the money to build its courthouse.
Other currency accepted ,were British silver crowns,but that was from the Bahamas trade.Also there was some French gold and silver specie that came to Florida during this period.

 

[Jolly Mon]

As I stated before,Mexican silver dollars,and Spanish and Cuban gold coins were accepted by Jacob Summerlin,cracker cowboy,who later,after the War loaned Orlando the money to build its courthouse.
Other currency accepted ,were British silver crowns,but that was from the Bahamas trade.Also there was some French gold and silver specie that came to Florida during this period.

It seems to me people forget how easily a blockade runner could turn even a partial cargo of cotton into hard silver or gold. The best Sea-Island or long staple cotton was bringing in excess of $2.00 a pound by late 1863. European textile mills were starving for it. A standard bale weighed around 400 pounds. 3 bales of Sea Island cotton could have been turned into $2000.00 +++ in hard gold or silver in Havana in early 1864. Quickly.

 

[ECS]

It seems to me people forget how easily a blockade runner could turn even a partial cargo of cotton into hard silver or gold. The best Sea-Island or long staple cotton was bringing in excess of $2.00 a pound by late 1863. European textile mills were starving for it. A standard bale weighed around 400 pounds. 3 bales of Sea Island cotton could have been turned into $2000.00 +++ in hard gold or silver in Havana in early 1864. Quickly.

The final action of the USS Sagamore during the War,along with the USS Clyde was capturing 100 bales of cotton at Clay's Landing on the lower Suwannee River,June 7,1864.

 

[Jolly Mon]

This actually might be a fun little wreck to find. Obviously, it was headed INTO Steinhatchee and not out, but if it had cavalry sabers aboard, it might have some cool relics...probably mostly in very poor condition, but still...

Many of the small schooners that ran the gulf blockade were actually centerboard types...very, very shoal draft little vessels. This wreck, whatever is left of it, might be in shallow water indeed.

click until you can read it !!

click until you can see it !!

 

[Salvor6]

The Rob Roy was found in the 70's by a Tampa group. The location is well known. That ship has been cleaned out!

 

[Jolly Mon]

The Rob Roy was found in the 70's by a Tampa group. The location is well known. That ship has been cleaned out!

Cool beans. It sounded like the vessel Ivan was talking about being burnt to the waterline by its own crew...it must be the same ship.

I just did a google search and the information you and Comfortably Numb posted several years ago on another site came up. Looks like she was found right where she should have been...just goes to show...

Even cooler, the skipper wrote a book, The Civil War Adventures of a Blockade Runner. The Civil War Adventures of a Blockade Runner - William Watson - Google Books

 

[ECS]

I would like to buy the owner of Charlie's where the anchor is a beer. I would like to hear the story of how and who put the anchor there.

From all my research,Yulee's ABBEY BEE seems to be a tall tale fabricated around that anchor at the resturant on King's Bay,Crystal River.
Yes,there were many blockade runners and Union ships on the Gulf-June 4,1863 the USS FORT HENRY captured loaded Confederate barges at the mouth of Crystal River,and on June 25,1863,the USS SAGAMORE(ie;Abbey Bee story)captured the British FROLIC at Crystal River which was leaving with a cargo of cotton and turpentine.
Remember,the blockade runner FANNY,escaped up the Crystal River to Kings Bay from Cedar Key during the USS HATTERAS attack and raid,Jan 15,1862.
Yulee did have a slave ship registered in St Augustine,but it was seized,along with his railroad holdings at Fernadina.

 

[Jon Phillips]

The WANDERER, a U.S. Naval water tender and dispatch captured the sloops: BELLE, RANGER, and ANNA B while on blockade squadron duty....

Maybe someone had heard that, and the name ANNA B stuck with them, and turned into "ABBY BEE" and was attached to this story somehow?