The Abbey Bee

[Darren in NC]

I have no inside knowledge of the Abby/Abbey Bee. However, I do know about research and documentation. First of all, there will likely be no documentation on this cargo, if indeed it even exists. Even as recent as WW2, there are scores of wrecks that are known to have sank with gold/silver/precious cargo. But rarely will you find documentation on it. Most of that kind of documentation is hidden from the public unless an eyewitness (crew member, passenger, stevedore, etc) testifies to it. It's a catch-22 - investors want proof, but you'll rarely find proof in documentation.

Also, keep in mind that this supposed gold may not have actually belonged to the official Confederate treasury. There were many Confederate sympathizers who had a financial interest in seeing the cause continue. Many legends exist of gold hidden in vaults, caves, mountains, and so forth to use again later for the cause of the South. I don't believe all of these legends, but some of them are based on fact. Maxmillan, Jesse James, the Knights Templar and scores of other sympathizers are known to have supported the cause. Perhaps the Abbey Bee's gold is such a cargo. Unofficial gold will never be found in the official records. Her absence there doesn't automatically dismiss her story. It would be interesting to discover the origins of her legend.

 

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[Salvor6]

A couple things come to mind. First of all the A/B was certainly not carrying cotton. She was headed to Cuba so I suspect she had a valuable cargo. Second, this is not a ghost ship. Someone actually found her and brought up the anchor. A vessel trying to escape Union forces does not keep records.

 

[ECS]

I tried to get the log book of the USS Sagamore but the archives want $200 for a microfish of just the month of April, 1865. Who knows what is on board the Abbey Bee? If you could find any more info on this I would really appreciate it.

Walter Keeler Scofield was the medical officer of the USS Sagamore,Nov 23,1861-April 9,1864.Scofield's diary contains information on the activities of the Sagamore,including blockade schooners captured,sunk,and their cargo.
http://digitalcollections.fiu.edu/tequesta/files/1955/55_1_04.pdf
Pictures of the USS Sagamore,a US Navy list of Confederate Blockade runners to be sought out,and a good history of Civil War activities on Florida's gulf coast can be found here.It ends with CSA Sec of State Judah P Benjamin's(Yulee's cousin) escape from Florida.
http://pascocemetaries.org/brooksville_bayport_raid.html
The USS Sagamore in Cedar Key,March-April,1863 in accounted here:
Civil War Navy Sesquicentennial: Boat Expedition on the Florida Gulf Coast - April 1863
Remember,that the USS Sagamore was decomissioned Dec 1864,in Philadelphia,so an encounter with the Abbey Bee in April 1865 was not possible.
Take note of the Union troops in Cedar Key who were alerted that Davis and Benjamin were expected to escape from Cedar Key,April 1865.Maybe the origin of the Abbey Bee legend.

 

[ECS]

A couple things come to mind. First of all the A/B was certainly not carrying cotton. She was headed to Cuba so I suspect she had a valuable cargo. Second, this is not a ghost ship. Someone actually found her and brought up the anchor. A vessel trying to escape Union forces does not keep records.

As Darren in NC mentioned,it would be nice to know the origin of the Abbey Bee story.
The Union Navy did keep records of all the persued,captured,and sunk CSA blockade runners,and of their cargos.
If the Abbey Bee was chased,a Union Navy record would exist...and how is it known that she was on her way to Cuba,April,1865?
It is known,CSA Sec of War John C Breckinridge and John Taylor Wood made it to Cuba from Florida's east coast,May 1865,in a longboat CSA Capt J J DICKINSON of Marion County captured from the USS Columbine on the St Johns River.Around the same time,Yulee was captured in Gainesville,and Benjamin escaped to the Bahamas from Florida's west coast.

 

[sabre15]

Any experts here on TN that can look at this anchor and give us its time period and type of ship it came from?

 

[aquanut]

Remember,that the USS Sagamore was decomissioned Dec 1864,in Philadelphia,so an encounter with the Abbey Bee in April 1865 was not possible.

"It states that the USS Sagamore was decommissioned Dec 1864,recommissioned in Mar 1865,but fails to mentioned she was sold in NY,June 1865."

I'm confused

 

[ECS]

"It states that the USS Sagamore was decommissioned Dec 1864,recommissioned in Mar 1865,but fails to mentioned she was sold in NY,June 1865."

I'm confused

No confusion-The war ended in April 1865,the US Navy no longer needed the USS SAGAMORE for blockade patrol,it was once again decommissioned for sale in NY,June 1865.

 

[ECS]

QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE DISCOVERY STORY OF THIS ANCHOR

View attachment 855303View attachment 855305

The shrimper that pulled up this anchor in 1978-How did he know it was from a schooner called the ABBEY BEE?
Did David Levy Yulee ever own a schooner called the ABBEY BEE?
How was it determined that the ABBEY BEE had 20 million in gold,and by who?
What archeologist studied the anchor's "serial numbers" and stated it was from the Civil War?
Who placed the date of the event of the sinking of the ABBEY BEE as April,1865 by the Union USS SAGAMORE,when the SAGAMORE was NOT in the Gulf,but in Philadelphia?
There are many holes in this story that tends to make one believe that it began as a tall tale and now a legend that gets bigger with the telling.

 

[sabre15]

The shrimper that pulled up this anchor in 1978-How did he know it was from a schooner called the ABBEY BEE?
Did David Levy Yulee ever own a schooner called the ABBEY BEE?
How was it determined that the ABBEY BEE had 20 million in gold,and by who?
What archeologist studied the anchor's "serial numbers" and stated it was from the Civil War?
Who placed the date of the event of the sinking of the ABBEY BEE as April,1865 by the Union USS SAGAMORE,when the SAGAMORE was NOT in the Gulf,but in Philadelphia?
There are many holes in this story that tends to make one believe that it began as a tall tale and now a legend that gets bigger with the telling.

I agree with everything you said, that is why I started this thread. I have met several different people that have mentioned this story but nobody could ever give me historical information that could be fact-checked. I was hoping that someone would have factual information or proof that it exist. I have been skeptical of that anchor from the first time I saw it and the story itself.

 

[ECS]

sabre 15,did you read the history and diary accounts in the links I posted?Very interesting information is contain therein.

 

[sabre15]

Yes, first link would not open, too big maybe? Interesting historical info in the last one, middle one does not recognize the site. I wonder if this is another one of those made up treasure lore tales?

 

[Southern_Digger]

Not going to reveal much more info other than I am certain that I found Breckenridge's camp in South Florida. Will publish something on it someday.

 

[ECS]

This FIU site you need acrobat to open.
Try to google Brooksville-Bayport Raid for the middle site-It contains pictures of the USS Sagamore,lists blockade runners captured and sunk,mentions the "Cow Cavalry",and Benjaman's escape from Florida.A lot of great information well worth the read.
Yes,the Abbey Bee may be a lore tale combined from several real events.

 

[ECS]

Not going to reveal much more info other than I am certain that I found Breckenridge's camp in South Florida. Will publish something on it someday.

John C Breckinridge and John Taylor Wood were in Miami,June 6,1865,before sailing to Cuba in a longboat to stay with Lola Sanchez's(Palatka)relatives. When did they camp?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Salvor6:

While the Abbey Bee may not have extant documentation regarding her cargo and her loss, the Union gunboat that engaged and sunk her certainly would have reported it. As you can see from reading the OR, far lesser incidents were recorded.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Darren:

The SS John Berry's cargo of silver coins was very well documented. As was the gold aboard HMS Edinburgh. I believe I recently read that Odyssey pulled up tons of silver from a WW II wreck.

Going back almost one hundred years, the US Army payroll lost when the Str. Brother Jonathan went down was very well documented. Major Eddy's will could not be closed until his Army accounts were settled to the satisfaction of the US Government. The treasure is, I believe, still here - in paper money...

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Darren in NC]

I hear you, Old Bookaroo. There are many examples of precious cargo being documented. All I'm saying is that your examples are anecdotal and the exception. The Edinburgh doesn't even count as an exception, though. Her gold was found due to inside knowledge firsthand, not due to research. Most precious cargoes have yet to be discovered, and many of them will not be due to research, but by accidental discovery or eyewitness reports.

 

[ivan salis]

please note that it was the common practice of blockade runners to repaint different names upon their vessels to try to avoid capture by having blockade vessels think they were something else other than a blockade runner if they were seen in open waters away from the coast * -- thus one vessel could have many names that they used --some were so complete at faking being something else they even had false papers if boarded in various ships names * the abby "b" or abbey "b" or abbey bee --depending upon the spelling used is just one name .

 

[lookindown]

Where did the name Abbey Bee come from? Was there ever an actual known boat with that name or did someone just say there was?

 

[ivan salis]

please note the "official" confederate name might have been one of the following --ABBY B --ABBEY B-- OR-- ABBEY BEE OFTEN BLOCKADE RUNNERS USED "FAKE NAMES" TO CONFUSE BLOCKADE VESSELS AS TO THEIR TRUE NATIONALITY / NAME --SO EVEN IF THE BLOCKADE ENFORCEMENT VESSEL SANK THE OTHER THEY MIGHT HAVE HER LISTED UNDER THE FAKE NAME THAT WAS PAINTED ON HER SIDE AT THE TIME OF HER SINKING . THUS HER TRUE INDENTY WOULD BE HIDDEN BY THE FAKE NAME .

DRUG RUNNING VESSELS OF TODAY DO THE SAME THING --REPAINTING THE SHIPS HULL A DIFFERANT COLOR AND RENAMING OR RUNNING UNDER A DIFFERANT COUNTRY FLAG THAN WHAT THEIR REALLY REGISTERED TO.