Ted Cox and the Ridge Pit Mine

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ernie, a posted - I found an early 40's nickel next to the old wind-sock there a few years ago, thought it might have been yours?

Watchit ERNIE, wind sock indeeed cute, I liked it.

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Was just taking a wild guess. I know they trained bombardiers down there on some top-secret bombsights. And it's a good place for Quonset huts to reach the temps you mentioned. (The bats you apparently know about.)
I found an early 40's nickel next to the old wind-sock there a few years ago, thought it might have been yours?

https://www.google.com/search?q=bom...v&ved=0ahUKEwiro82gutHNAhVm54MKHY32D0EQsAQIFA

 

[EarnieP]

Ernie, a posted - I found an early 40's nickel next to the old wind-sock there a few years ago, thought it might have been yours?

Watchit ERNIE, wind sock indeeed cute, I liked it.

Real,
I hope you do not think I was referring to you as an 'old wind sock'. NO, no, no!
Nothing could be further from the truth Sir Real. I have way too much well deserved respect for you, your military service, your working experiences, and your treasure hunting history to do something like that.
.
I actually did find an old, I think it was 1943, nickle laying on the ground next to the old windsock (the original wind direction indicator 'windsock', a newer one was built many years later.) on that Army Air Base.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, 'you old coot',

EarnieP

 

[azdave35]

Real,
I hope you do not think I was referring to you as an 'old wind sock'. NO, no, no!
Nothing could be further from the truth Sir Real. I have way too much well deserved respect for you, your military service, your working experiences, and your treasure hunting history to do something like that.
.
I actually did find an old, I think it was 1943, nickle laying on the ground next to the old windsock (the original wind direction indicator 'windsock', a newer one was built many years later.) on that Army Air Base.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, 'you old coot',

EarnieP

yep....i got a feeling old real has just about done it all...i'd like to meet him someday

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

No problems, ya whipper snapper, Oiney I didn't, and beides, at times I do seem to fit that suggesstion / description

 

[audigger53]

They may not know here but in England they are supposed to have a way. Not cheap but possible.
That's all I know about it, my brother told me about England doing it.

 

[Curious_George]

Ted Cox & his partner's betrayl

One thing I don't get about Ted's story is that after one of his partner's betrayed him (if my memory is correct, Bud Dunn was his faithful sidekick, and the partners who betrayed him were from Montana), why didn't he set up an operation to clean out (or at least protect) the Pit Mine before the betrayers (who were from MUCH further away) came back and made off with the rest of the loot.

I assume folks have already looked at the area just over the Roger's Ridgeline from the Pit Mine for what Ted said was the area where the gold would be hand cobbled out of the quartz matrix. Is that area considered to be one of Waltz's cache areas?

Another question: since Ted claimed that the Roger's Canyon spring at the base of Iron Mountain was a storehouse for Spanish gold, yet the HEAT crew found no evidence of it, what is the list's view o:

1 if there ever was any gold stored there and,

2 if so, what happened to it?

Me thinks more people know the answers to these questions than are letting on. (i.e., the thinly veiled comment that who worked the Pit Mine between 1994-1997 was an open secret) I certainly understand why they wouldn't make their knowledge public.

To throw my 2 cents into the ring, I think the Pit Mine IS the LDM & the 2 Soldiers mine, based on evidence in Jack San Felice's book &, especially, on Jesse Feldman's book

From what I can discern, the legend of the LDM started with Bicknell changing his story from clues indicating the LDM was on the East side of the SWA to locating it on the West side, to Waltz's own sense of humor & desire to confabulate & confuse, to the fact that many have a vested interest inn keeping Dutch Hunters looking on the West side.

 

[markmar]

George

Bicknell had changed the clues from the west side to the east side of the Supers , because he was not able to find the real roofless two room house across the LDM ( on the same mountainside ) from the west side . If you believe the two room house 200 feet across the ravine from the LDM is a phony clue , then you failed to find the mine before starting your quest .
Adolph Ruth , who had the real maps for the LDM site , searched the west side of the Supers . Also , Waltz gave clues to Holmes and Julia for the west side of the Supers .

PS

Believe it or not , my avatar shows the roofless two room house from the Waltz clue .

 

[Curious_George]

Bud Dunn

My memory was incorrect. Bud Dunn was the partner who betrayed Ted Cox, apparently by processing gold in "Geronomo's' Cave & refusing to let Ted or his buddy, Wally Mitchell, into the mine to see what he was doing.

Eventually, Dunn threatened to kill Ted & his buddy.

Still leaves me wondering why Cox didn't act to protect his find and the gold he says was there.

 

[Curious_George]

What reference could you point me to as to why Bicknell changed the clue? I am not saying I don't believe you, I simply want to research it further.

I take it you don't accept Jesse Feldman's conclusion that the 2 room 'house' at the north end of Roger's Canyon is the house mentioned in one of the LDM 'clues,' or, even, the rockhouse below the Pit Mine itself. Guess this is why the Legend continues.. honest disagreements among folks who've given a lot of thought, time and effort to research & explore.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

What reference could you point me to as to why Bicknell changed the clue? I am not saying I don't believe you, I simply want to research it further.

I take it you don't accept Jesse Feldman's conclusion that the 2 room 'house' at the north end of Roger's Canyon is the house mentioned in one of the LDM 'clues,' or, even, the rockhouse below the Pit Mine itself. Guess this is why the Legend continues.. honest disagreements among folks who've given a lot of thought, time and effort to research & explore.

Me too, Marius...if you have anything on Bick searching the western supes for the LDM or a Peralta mine, prior to 1894, I would also be interested in seeing what you may have on that...take care, Jim

EDIT: Never mind...I see what you were saying now...Bick didn't switch his OWN search from the west side to the east side...he switched from the west side to FIT the east side, where he found the Casa Caverna at Angel Basin...check. Not sure I agree with you, but I get it.

 

[markmar]

Me too, Marius...if you have anything on Bick searching the western supes for the LDM or a Peralta mine, prior to 1894, I would also be interested in seeing what you may have on that...take care, Jim

EDIT: Never mind...I see what you were saying now...Bick didn't switch his OWN search from the west side to the east side...he switched from the west side to FIT the east side, where he found the Casa Caverna at Angel Basin...check. Not sure I agree with you, but I get it.

Jim

Julia had two attempts to find the LDM in the west side of the Supers . So what do niauu-niauu on the roof ? ( answer : the cat ) . Bicknell was not so stupid to believe the LDM was in the east side . But , thought how if Julia who had first hand info couldn't find it , then he would has not a little chance .
Even Waltz without help he would never could be able to find the mine . Don't forget " No miner will find my mine " .

 

[Al D]

J . Don't forget " No miner will find my mine " .

This clue says it all
No miner will find the mine because it is not a mine. i.e. no mineral, no color, no ore bearing rock.
Waltz found a cache, probably from the colonial Spanish workings

 

[Curious_George]

Jim

Julia had two attempts to find the LDM in the west side of the Supers . So what do niauu-niauu on the roof ? ( answer : the cat ) . Bicknell was not so stupid to believe the LDM was in the east side . But , thought how if Julia who had first hand info couldn't find it , then he would has not a little chance .
Even Waltz without help he would never could be able to find the mine . Don't forget " No miner will find my mine " .

So, in your opinion, finding the name 'Bicknell" on the support beam in the 2 room "Caverna a Casa" has no bearing on Bicknell basing his own personal search in the East side of SWA, but printing the clue for his readers as pointing to the West side around Weaver's Needled as the correct search area.

If that is so, why hasn't the LDM been found by the 1,000's of serious, dedicated Dutch Hunters over the last 125+ years?

To me, the idea that the Pit Mine IS the LDM has a just- right mixture of: geological proof (east end heavily mineralized, west end not); social engineering (Bicknell changing the clue, Waltz giving conflicting, even false clues ; rampant, often unfounded speculation, etc) PLUS the facts that the Rodgers Ridge mines are proven to have gold & silver AND that the Petrasches (sic?) had several (9?) mining claims in the Rodger's Ridge area. Feet on the ground, real world facts, not speculation of legends. Simply my opinion.

 

[gollum]

Alan and George,

All wonderful EXCEPT Waltz described his mine in detail, including the two veins that ran through it. The quartz vein sounds a lot like the vein in the Pit Mine. BUT......next to that, there was a vein of soft dark gray (Hematite?) you could pick out with a knife blade that had nuggets the size of wheat grains. That was NOT in the Pit Mine.

........and it was NOT a cache site.

Mike

 

[Curious_George]

Alan and George,

All wonderful EXCEPT Waltz described his mine in detail, including the two veins that ran through it. The quartz vein sounds a lot like the vein in the Pit Mine. BUT......next to that, there was a vein of soft dark gray (Hematite?) you could pick out with a knife blade that had nuggets the size of wheat grains. That was NOT in the Pit Mine.

........and it was NOT a cache site.

Mike

,

Thanks for your input Can you point me to a resource for the statement that there was also a 2nd soft,dark gray vein that had nuggets the size of wheat grains?

I'd really like to SEE that! (the vein, well yes, the resource too) Thanks.

 

[markmar]

So, in your opinion, finding the name 'Bicknell" on the support beam in the 2 room "Caverna a Casa" has no bearing on Bicknell basing his own personal search in the East side of SWA, but printing the clue for his readers as pointing to the West side around Weaver's Needled as the correct search area.

If that is so, why hasn't the LDM been found by the 1,000's of serious, dedicated Dutch Hunters over the last 125+ years?

To me, the idea that the Pit Mine IS the LDM has a just- right mixture of: geological proof (east end heavily mineralized, west end not); social engineering (Bicknell changing the clue, Waltz giving conflicting, even false clues ; rampant, often unfounded speculation, etc) PLUS the facts that the Rodgers Ridge mines are proven to have gold & silver AND that the Petrasches (sic?) had several (9?) mining claims in the Rodger's Ridge area. Feet on the ground, real world facts, not speculation of legends. Simply my opinion.

George

The LDM was not found because the people who searched for it , didn't know the exact spot of the mine , or/and they didn't search in the proper location . I can't answer for them , but this is my humble opinion .
And the mine will still be lost , untill somebody will find it with the help of someone who knows the spot or decrypting the few maps and real clues which are connected with the LDM .

 

[PotBelly Jim]

George,

I don't think ANYONE knows exactly where Bick searched for the LDM...to me at least, his search area appears wide...probably encompassing the entire range and nearby mountains, not just the east end of the Supes. He also had mining interests/claims spanning a much wider area. So I respectfully challenge anyone who claims Bick searched one area or another...I see no evidence he searched one area to the exclusion of any other area.

I believe the evidence we have indicates that Bick did indeed search the area around Angel Basin in the 1894 time-frame. Again, that doesn't mean he didn't search elsewhere.

I've posted this before, but I can't remember when or where...so here it is again...three articles by Bick in the 1894/95 time frames:

View attachment 1661873

 

[markmar]

,

Thanks for your input Can you point me to a resource for the statement that there was also a 2nd soft,dark gray vein that had nuggets the size of wheat grains?

I'd really like to SEE that! (the vein, well yes, the resource too) Thanks.

George

Here is an article where you can see the statement about the grey soft vein in the inclined LDM shaft . What are you looking for is at page #7 of PDF or at page #28 of the article .

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gcun...ark/John Reed Story and the Lost Dutchman.pdf

 

[Curious_George]

The grey, soft vein

George

Here is an article where you can see the statement about the grey soft vein in the inclined LDM shaft . What are you looking for is at page #7 of PDF or at page #28 of the article .

http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gcun...ark/John Reed Story and the Lost Dutchman.pdf

Thanks, Marius, for the helpful information.. I'll look at it more tonight. As Dr. Glover said, the problem isn't that there aren't enough clues.. it's that there are too many (and it's not known which clues are true).

George