Swamp Gold

[ECS]

ECS-You continue to miss the point I am trying to make. There are many treasures buried throughout Florida that have no written historical record attached to them. Of course this is hard to prove as there is no record of them. The gold that I believe is buried at the site that I refer to as "Cloud Mountain" could have come from a number of known or unknown sources. If you believe that all the buried treasure in Florida can be found in some written historical records, you are wrong. You keep reading and I will keep digging, guess who is most likely to find treasure.

You always seem to misconstrue what I post.Yes,there is bound to be unknown caches and other "treasure" buried in Floida.Many early homesteaders hid their valuables and during the War of Northern Aggression hid them from Union looters,ie,the CSA deserter, US Lt James D Green,who led Union raids against his former neighbors,chased the CSA "Cow Calvary" and CSA Pvt Lanier into the swamp.If you had read some of the diary links I posted on this thread you would have seen how research uncovered this unknown and possibly never found lost treasure.This information never appeared in a treasure book or mag,but only on this thread.
Now as for the well written about treasure legends,they are just that,tales,lore,legends.
You can tell the difference by the vague date given,vague location,but for some reason they contain substanial overinformation on the amount,type,size of the treasure and a strong storyline on how it came to be at a vague location.
As I also mentioned on this thread,Mel Fisher consulted with Charles Christopher Johnson,the son in law of Charles Greenleigh McKinney,CSA who served under CSA Capt Hendry and CSA Capt James McKay at CSA Fort Meade (his diary is on a link on this thread),concerning the lost 1/2 ton of Confederate gold in the Everglades,among other treasure tales of Florida.Fisher never pursued the "Everglades gold",but did have success with a well researched and documented actual treasure.

 

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[ECS]

From what you have found to read you have formed your own opinion, and it is just that, and we all know about "opinions". You are just guessing... To think that you can read diaries and war records and be able to claim that the stories of possible buried gold are just figments of some ones imagination is kind of ludicrous. Get real and get over yourself ECS. You have a very, very limited knowledge of what may have occurred in the past...

I don't know who the "WE" are that you mentioned,but I do back up my opinions with links to the research information.Now your opinion that gold is in the Everglades is based on...?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am not denying the lost 600 oz of Spanish and Cuban gold coins that CSA Pvt Lanier hid in the northen portion of the Everglades,its seems that the other legends,ie,1/2 ton in the Everglades,$250,000 gold payment in the Suwanne River,a similar tale on the Steinhatchee River,were derived from this and the other events I have noted.From my research,and in my opinion,these other legends of large amounts of gold lost by the Confederates were concieved in the 1940's.

Just wanted clarification for our readers. The gold cattle payment hidden by Pvt Lanier in 1864 was buried/hidden somewhere south of the Caloosahatchee River in the NW Everglades region. Yes I agree there are many embellishments and the 1960s treasure books exaggerated the teletype news wires of Florida Game Warden LP Harvey, Hully Stirling and William Gill's exploits in 1949.. Im sure the newspapers themselves may have exagerrated with eye catching headlines of a half of ton of gold buillion. Rumors spread and legends sprouted but we know at least one basic event was real. There may or may not have been other similar events with the many cattle and gold exchanges shipped out of Punta Rassa, but who knows? I believe the Confederate Cow Cavalry also had a cattle drive when running the blockade was considered too risky..



Man... this thread needs an overhaul. Maybe someday I can edit it down. Its too hard to follow. I cant even remember it all myself. I have too many more important priorities than to work on this project, but there is one place I wanted to visit and thats the Historical Society in Davie. This is where LP Harvey discovered the information on the lost gold shipment. LP had been working on it since at least 1946 and I dont think he was simply seeking publicity. Did he discover the Confederate diaries? ...or did he discover much more? And for some reason LP and the Davie boys have the last Confederate campsite down into the Indian Reservation. LP Harvey was a smart man and not unfamiliar with the Everglades region, being a Florida State Game Officer. He would not waste his time down in HorseshoeHead without a good reason. It would not be hard or unbelievable for a small Confederate detachment to travel that far in March 1864 in the dry season on horseback with 40-60 pounds of gold spit between a few saddlebags.... Not hard at all.. .....not unbelievable.

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS-You brought up Mel Fisher. Not only was he after sunken treasure, he was also after buried treasure. When Ovid and I were in Virginia seeking the Beale treasure, Fisher was supposed to have been flying around in a helicopter also searching for it. When Ovid and I were in the Everglades seeking the 1000 pounds of gold, was it possible that Fisher was also interested in it too? Ovid stood on the bow of their boat and led them to treasure, which they found. Ovid sat in the passenger seat of my vehicles and led me to treasure sites. I have not had the time and resources that the Fisher group had. Maybe I will be more successful in the future.

Believe whatever you want to. I know what I have seen. I believe in Ovid, myself and that the treasures are where I think they are, just waiting for the right person to come along that has what it takes to dig them up. Time will tell. It is far from over.

ECS-One thing I do believe is that you have tried time and again to prove that the treasures I seek (pots-of-gold, submarine diamonds, Swamp Gold) do not exist. You have failed. You are wrong about all this and I will eventually prove it.

 

[ECS]

ECS-You brought up Mel Fisher. Not only was he after sunken treasure, he was also after buried treasure. When Ovid and I were in Virginia seeking the Beale treasure, Fisher was supposed to have been flying around in a helicopter also searching for it. When Ovid and I were in the Everglades seeking the 1000 pounds of gold, was it possible that Fisher was also interested in it too? Ovid stood on the bow of their boat and led them to treasure, which they found...



ECS-One thing I do believe is that you have tried time and again to prove that the treasures I seek (pots-of-gold, submarine diamonds, Swamp Gold) do not exist. You have failed. You are wrong about all this and I will eventually prove it.

What you are saying is that after years of research into historical Spanish records,studing treasure routes and old maps,weather conditions and ocean currents searching for a known sunken treasure ship,it took a dowser just one day to locate the ATOCHA.Did Mel Fisher compensate Ovid Arnold for this miraculous find?This is a prime example on how tales and lore become legends.
I post the facts of the historical record with source links to provide a counter argument .If these facts don't concur with your statements,is it I or the historical record that disagrees with you?
You claim I failed-at what? Posting the historical records of events mentioned in discussions on TN?
A treasure is not found until it is in hand,saying it is there is just not the same.
Proving the historical record wrong will take just that and only that,having the treasure in hand.

 

[releventchair]

Hard to shortcut research effectively. Were i preparing to head in the glades, having others opinions and facts first would not bother me. nothing against the location but in and out if searching more appealing than making an attention gaining event out of it. Not interested in being watched after attracting attention ,pirates still exist and would like to claim any prize after the work is done for them. Possession or publicity,one requires being unnoticed due to efficiency. Any who, thanks for sharing research.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just wrote a very long informative post and lost it all trying to add atachments. I really wish the owners of this site would fix these problems.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im going to try and post a shorter scaled down version or maybe I will try to post in sections... BDD quit arguing with ECS and stop trying to promote yourself at every opportunity. Notice this paragraph from the Miami News 1949. Yes it says a half ton of gold which Im sure you noticed..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The question is where did this information come from? The oldest treasure book that I was able to find was 1964 if I remember correctly. (I dont have time to read back). So where did it come from?

We need to search older newspapers or older sources but one of the problems is that Google discontinued putting old newsprint microfilm online.


Go back to page 1. Remember Cptbil? (Capt Bill) He stated very early on that he discovered something very large that the US government would never allow him to keep, while researching in Washington DC. Could he have discovered the half-ton of gold shipment? While I am very grateful for the historic research that you uncovered ECS, its not over. Its possible we missed something. Research needs to continue. We have a hodgepodge of characters, a series of events that involves Spanish gold, enough cattle in the Everglades to feed the Confederacy, a famous blockade runner Capt Riley, the Confederate Cow Cavalry, Pvt Lanier, Confederate deserters familiar with Seminole War trails, lost forts, swamp rats, Native Indians, a Florida Game Warden LP Harvey, a pilot Hully Stirling best known for scattering Malaeluca seeds, a dowser named Ovid, Capt Bill, Mindspark, a local historical society, a ghost town on Indian lands scattered human skulls, and Federal Law Enforcement. Anyone that knows me from TN knows that I seek the truth and I am capable of bringing the research together and sort out this mystery but it may take more time.

I am afraid that I have logged way, too many RESEARCH hours, in both, to just give them away!
The first, and it is and can be fully documented, is going to require more than the usual pick & shovel to recover!
The second treasure, which was found from researching the first treasure, is going to require a "REAL FLORIDA CRACKER" type person to track it down!
I can personally guarantee that these treasures DO EXSIST!
AND!
I can truthfully say, that the FIRST One, is in the ranks of the very! largest! ? in the U.S. ! (AND! I can authicate that statement with The U.S. Govt. Records!)
AND!
There are Offical U.S. Records (of the time and later) to prove it's exsistence! ( In case anyone gets a little "snippy" )

quote Capt Bill commenting on his research in Washington DC

 

[Bigdogdad]

Im going to try and post a shorter scaled down version or maybe I will try to post in sections... BDD quit arguing with ECS and stop trying to promote yourself at every opportunity. Notice this paragraph from the Miami News 1949. Yes it says a half ton of gold which Im sure you noticed..

Quit arguing with ECS? My mom said it takes two to have an argument, did you tell him to quit arguing with me? An old newspaper article mentions 1000 pounds of gold. If you choose to believe ECS, it does not exist. Just another legend, lore, story, tale, or whatever. Promote myself What exactly do you think I am promoting and why?

My motives and methods continue to be questioned. I have been repeatedly told that if I find treasure, no matter which one or where, it will be taken away from me. This could very well be true. I could try sneaking around, trespassing, stealing or worse and risk going to prison. Instead I have been upfront with the different property owners involved and now have their trust, cooperation and assistance. Because the lawyers might tie up any treasure in the court system I am trying to make a buck off of the actual event of the finding of any treasure. I am not going to risk the wrath of the IRS by lying/hiding anything. You all can do it your way and I will do it mine.

BCH-You seem like a nice enough guy and the people that have met you say you are OK. My issue with you is you have chosen (in my opinion) to back the wrong horse. Good luck with your choice. If you prefer that I not post on this thread just say so and I will be gone. If I am welcome to stay you will just have to deal with whatever I say. Stay/go

 

[GMD52]

It may take two to argue, but only one to stop the nonsence. BDD, stop always being on the defensive, and produce something other than empty holes and excuses. There are many other partys that read this thread than just you. You now have a supposed TV deal, and I hope you are successful, but so far I haven't seen anything. Being successful means different things to different people, I find success in the answer to a question I'm looking for the answer to, and not a material entity. Get off your high horse, and remember that other's are forming opinions, but I suspect that other peoples opinions don't phase you! Hope that someday you find something in the bottom of a hole, HH.

 

[lastleg]

If cptbil were here now Dog would have to stuff his tail twixt his legs and chase rabbits instead of
gold.

 

[Bigdogdad]

It may take two to argue, but only one to stop the nonsence. BDD, stop always being on the defensive, and produce something other than empty holes and excuses. There are many other partys that read this thread than just you. You now have a supposed TV deal, and I hope you are successful, but so far I haven't seen anything. Being successful means different things to different people, I find success in the answer to a question I'm looking for the answer to, and not a material entity. Get off your high horse, and remember that other's are forming opinions, but I suspect that other peoples opinions don't phase you! Hope that someday you find something in the bottom of a hole, HH.

When someone goes on the offence it may cause me to go on the defense. You haven't seen anything about the TV deal? Maybe it's because it is a long process. I am not on a high horse and you are welcome to your opinion and yes they don't phase me. Thanks for the hoping I find something.

 

[Bigdogdad]

If cptbil were here now Dog would have to stuff his tail twixt his legs and chase rabbits instead of
gold.

You lost me on this one lastleg. Let's see, cptbil thinks there is a large amount of gold buried in the glades and it is going to take more than a pick and shovel to get to it. I think there is a large amount of gold buried in the glades and it is going to take more than a pick and shovel to get to it. He claims the treasure is "fully documented" so that means ECS could probably find that info with one eye tied behind his back. Too bad ECS refuses to have anything to do with me or my stories.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont have time to read past the first line but yes certainly I can tell ECS to stop arguing too. Lets concentrate on where the half ton of gold legend came from and we dont need a shovel.

 

[Salvor6]

One thing that ECS brought up that struck a nerve, you can claim anything, you can claim you know where gold is, where diamonds are but until you actually dig it up its just that- a claim. Show me the gold!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Calm down. Of course you are welcome to stay BDD. Im not backing anybody. Im looking for the truth. Arent we all looking for the truth?

Somehow I get a feeling that in anger you missed the point on my reply #1451 BDD. My point is that its possible that ECS couldnt find reference to the half ton of gold because the old microfilm is not on the internet. Google discontinued transferring old news on microfilm. Its possible that Capt Bill discovered this in Washington DC. Do you understand BDD?

I need someone with the resources to search outside the internet...the old fashioned way. Like Mel Fisher and Gene Lyon did in the archives in Seville.

 

[Bigdogdad]

One thing that ECS brought up that struck a nerve, you can claim anything, you can claim you know where gold is, where diamonds are but until you actually dig it up its just that- a claim. Show me the gold!

I have taken people to a site and showed them where the silver is. I told them that you need permission to dig and a backhoe. You can lead a pirate to silver but you can't make him find it. Kind of struck a nerve with me. I will show the gold and silver to EVERYONE as I now plan to dig it all up, with proper permissions.

 

[ECS]

BCH-This site contains records and maps of Miami and the Everglades during the Civil War.Most were compiled from articles written in THE MIAMI NEWS by Rose Wagner,who was 9yo in 1861 and are eyewitness accounts.
Note the mention of CSA John C Breckinridge who stoped in Miami,April 6,1865 with CSA blockade runner John Taylor Ward on their escape to Cuba.Remember,Breckinridge had a part of the remaining CSA Treasury with him.Another source for the legend?
Also is mentioned the Confederate deserters who hid and had shacks in the Everglades.Another source for the legend?
http://digitalcollections.fiu.edu/tequestafiles/1993/93_1_03.pdf

 

[Salvor6]

"I have taken people to a site and showed them where the silver is. I told them that you need permission to dig and a backhoe."

I sent my "A" team out to the silver bar site with MY permission. They dug down 5 feet over the exact spot and found nothing but coils of copper wire and modern duplex nails (at 5'). Ovid failed this one.