Strange Victorio Peak Info... Maybe the answer to where the gold went?

Yeah had problems in life and money, so I couldn't go hunting for years. They brought in an Army Eng division and then all of them left the States to Brazll on a cargo transport(So I was told, years back).
 

Recent reading lead me down this path of thought.
Theatrics as an invoice common
Dec 17, 2007
Long before Noss ever thought of treasure, an American Native tried to sell a bar of Gold. The Buyer tried to swindle him and when the Native (whom actually owns the gold of this continent) refused the offer and went looking for another buyer, the swindler went to a Judge friend and with a couple of Sheriffs arrested the Native. The Judge attempted to swindle the Native, by making a threat to imprison him for life if he did not tell where he got the bar and where any more bars might be.
The Native would not give the GREEDY any info.
The Judge told him that Natives do not own Gold mines so the Native must have robbed someone for the gold bar. The Judge Found the Native Guilty of the crime the Judge had framed him for. The Judge then sentenced the Native to Life in prison, in the hope that the Native would break down and give in and reveal the source of the gold bar.
Years went by, the native kept his clam shut,,, then as age crept over him, Noss threatened a woman while he was armed, she was a waitress , and would not serve him anymore booze, and that slob threatened her. Noss was sentenced to prison. While serving HIS too short of a sentence, he beguiled the by now Old Native, who was nearing his death.
The old native drew a map on the inside of a Jacket, a deer skin jacket. The Native gave it to Noss . The deal was ,that Noss was to retrieve some gold, hire the Native a lawyer, get the Natives case overturned, so the Native could get HOME to die in peace. Noss left prison and went in search of the various sites marked on the deerskin jacket with no intent to ever help the Old Native get out of his FALSE IMPRISONMENT.
The poor old Native died in that stink hole prison
While Noss ran con games and sold shares in an empty hole, Noss would manufacture phony gold bars and sell them. That brought in Secret Service agent James Hirst who investigated Noss. Noss, caught in a compromise, gave up the information about the Old Native and his map.
An F.O.I.A. with the D.O.J. just might help you find the Hirst notes on this story, so, the question is, IF ANY GOLD EVER EXISTED IN VICTORIO PEAK, WHO RIGHTFULLY OWNS IT?
WOULD THE NOSS FLEDGLINGS OWN IT ? WOULD THE GOVERNMENT OWN IT ? HOW ABOUT THE NATIVES OF AMERICA, WOULD THEY RIGHTFULLY OWN IT ?
MY VOTE SAYS YES THE NATIVES OF AMERICA OWN THE GOLD.
THE GENOCIDE PRODUCERS WHO MURDERED THE AMERICAN NATIVES OWN THEIR DEEDS, PRODUCED THROUGH THEIR GREED.
Roger Snow
Victorio Peak Mystery Treasure in Victorio Peak, New Mexico Forum
Click to expand...
next was the statement of James Hirst of the Fake Gold Bar recovered after Doc's death among his possessions quoted from Desert Magazine and from the Library of Congress
Doc Noss Desert Mag 1949 vol 6.PNG
 

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Supposedly Doc kept bars like that around if he got suspicious of buyers, and they were poor fakes of gold bars so as to motivate anyone he wanted to leave to do so on their own in disgust.
 

Sailaway,

There was NO fake gold bar recovered from Doc's effects after his death. In fact, most of the known bars recovered from VP were absolutely real. Tony Jolley got ten (maybe twenty) of the 110 bars he helped Doc rebury the night before he was murdered.



There are also many people's sworn affidavits (after Doc was murdered) that attested to the authenticity of the gold they got from Doc.

So, regurgitating old BS about Doc being nothing but a scam artist does not further the real story.

If you have had an interest in this story for a while, then you should have read "Treasure of Victoria Peak" by Phil Khoury. He goes into a lot of detail about about the truth of those stories of Doc swindling people with fake gold bars. If you haven't read it, you should.

Mike
 

There is absolutely zero doubt that Doc Noss had access to a very large amount of gold dore bars. We know they were Dore Bars because of how he described them to Ova. He told her that "pig iron must have been very valuable in those days, because there are stacks and stacks of old pig iron bars down there." He didn't bring up the first bar for two years, because he thought they were pig iron. He only brought that one up because Ova wanted to see one.

10tannehill44lg.jpg iron_a.jpg westmountain.jpg smelter02.jpg

One of the pictures is of 60% gold dore bars, and the other three are of pig iron. Imagine these lit only by a flashlight, and covered in an inch of thick crud from sitting in a cave for two hundred years.

Mike
 

VICTORIO PEAK, located 40 miles north of White Sands Missile Range's headquarters, has been believed for many years to be the hiding place of a vast treasure. This photo was taken in 11X33 when the Gaddis Mining Company of Denver conducted a hunt for the treasure. The hunt turned up nothing. Noss Probate Is 'Mysterious' Contained in the vaults of the Dona Ana County Courthouse is due to probate action regarding the estate of Milton Ernest "Doc" Noss. Proceedings on the estate were begun a month after Noss' death. He was shot by Charles Ryan , a disgruntled partner of Noss. Ryan was later cleared of all charges. Contained in lengthy document is Noss's personal properly at the time of his death. In part, this includes: "One metal steamer trunk containing papers, documents, books, maps, and other miscellaneous items, held by United States Government, Secret Service Agent. Albuquerque, for investigation: "One metal strong box, containing documents, papers, and miscellaneous items, also being held by U.S. Government, Secret Service Agent. Albuquerque. Supposedly three bars of metal, believed to be held by the U.S. Mint in Denver, said to have been receipted for In M.E. Noss. in the amount of approximately $90.000.00 since 1,July of 1911. Supposedly, fifty-one (51 bars of metal of undetermined value or con) are also supposedly in the hands of the Albuquerque agent. "Two bars of metal, presumably in Del Rio, Tex., at the Val Verde National Bank, value not known. One bar of metal, said to be in Grand Junction. Colo., or Colorado Springs. Colo., probably now in the hands of United Stales Government. One suitcase not found, presumed to contain legal documents, metal bars. gems, and ore samples, trinkets, and other miscellaneous items, this may have been a metal strong box with two padlocks. These and other items are presumed to be in possession of K. W. Parr or Mrs. Violet Noss, now of Friona, TX. They may also be in the hands of U.S. Secret Service Department. "Two bars of metal, presumably in a bank in Phoenix, Arizona, with Al Goldstein having knowledge, since 1938 or 1939. "Due to circumstances of cause of death of said MILTON ERNEST NOSS, the United Stales Government, Secret Service Department, seized all personal property for the purpose of investigation. James W. Hirst, Albuquerque, N.M. Agent. The Noss probate remained open for 27 years. It was finally closed in a probate court action dated September 19.1972. When asked why the action had remain open for so many years, an official at the courthouse said. "I don't know, but it is very strange."
The Doc Noss Treasure Tale:,
The deer hunter had watched the rain clouds come across the Jornada del Muerto towards the Hembrillo Basin and now a light rain began. He looked around and spotted a horizontal flat rock near the summit of Victorio Peak. Cradling a rifle in his arms he squatted under the rock and waited for the rain to subside. The water began forming small rivulets at his feet. His eye followed the path of the water and he noticed it seemed to be draining below a small rock. Milton "Doc" Noss casually tugged at the rock and pulled it loose. The water was indeed draining somewhere into the mountain . He dislodged some more rocks until the packed earth around them gave way and revealed a small opening. It was large enough for him to slick his head in. What was left of the afternoon sun shown over his shoulder as he looked into a small cave. Noss could make out a single pole ladder leading down. It was too dark and he could not distinguish what the shadows were in the cave. The rain had stopped, Noss gathered his rifle and left the site. Later he met his fellow doer hunters at camp but he kept his discovery a secret. Except, when he got home he did tell his wife, Ova. Both returned a few days later. Noss handed his wife the rifle and he began to dig at the opening. He made the opening large enough so he could crawl in and put his feel on the rungs of the ladder As he was descending, a rung broke on the weathered ladder. Struggling back to the top. he tied ropes he had brought to a nearby rock and threw the lariat down into the cave. Noss slid down the rope about 60 feet before his feet hit solid ground. The cave was big enough for him to stand up. Taking a flashlight from his pocket he shined it on the rock walls. Ancient Indian paintings were on the walls as well as some crude carvings. As he was studying the paintings his feet pushed some small stones. They rolled near a larger rook, and fell into a hole. They landed with a peculiar hollow thud. The half-breed Oklahoma Cheyenne Indian, ex-con and self-proclaimed "fool doctor" pushed the heavy boulder to the side. Now he could see a shaft. over a 100 feet long and at a downward angle. Using the ropes again, he began his descent. The shaft broke into a huge room, big enough for a freight train, Noss later said. Along the side of the large cave smaller cavities could be seen with the flashlight. At his feet was a cold water stream and he began to follow it. Noss approached one of the smaller side rooms but stopped short of entering. His flashlight bounced off human skeletons lined up along 1 of the walls. horrified of them . He gave the grisly site a wide girth and entered one of the small caves. He found what he had half expected. There were dilapidated wooden chests, swords, guns and saddles. In the chests were a huge amounts of gold and silver coins. Noss was elated. jubilant, and he stuffed coins and jewels into his pockets, as much as he could hold. Noss was ready to start back up when he decided to look around some more. He explored more of the smaller caves, again avoiding the skeletons. In the farther reaches of the cavern he found another entrance. Peering in he shined his light on a strange site. Stacked like chord-wood were large bars. He reached in and grabbed one. He almost dropped it, he hadn't expected it to be that heavy. Hefting the bar in both hands he gauged it weighed about 40 pounds. Shining the light on the bar he inspected it very closely. The bar was a dirty grey. "PIG iron." Noss thought and a little disgusted, he tossed it back on the piles. Crawling back out he showed his wife the gold and silver coins with the ancient dates Noss was eating lunch, preparing for another descent, when he mentioned the pig iron Mrs. Noss suggested he bring at least one iron bar up to the surface. The prospector didn't favor the idea because of the bars' weight But she was persistant. He crawled down into the cavern again. Jamming more coins into his trousers he went for the bar of pig iron. Struggling and cursing with the heavy bar, he surfaced four hours later. Tossing the bar at his wife's feel he sat there to catch his breath. Ova Noss picked up the bar, looked at it indifferently, and tossed it on the ground too. She was going to go through the new collection of coins when she noticed her hands had been blackened by the bar. Curious, she picked up the bar again and rubbed. The grey color gave way lo a yellowish gleam. She rubbed harder and harder, then gasped. They grey had been oxidation and the bar was gold. Later Noss told friends, and treasure hunting partners, he removed 88 of the gold bars between 1917 and 1918. Then, he said, in trying to enlarge the cave opening he accidentally blasted it shut.
Estimates of the gold horde soon were at $25 billion. A SECURITY TRAILER is now located near the missile range, to discourage zealous treasure hunters from crossing the western boundary of the missile range the area is littered with potentially dangerous "dud shells."
Text By Ray Lopez

S U N D A Y , J ULY 25, 1976 LAS CRUCES, NEW MEXICO
Tipton Recalls Noss 'The Con Man'
THIS VERTICAL SHAFT is located legend.
This photo was taken in 1973, at the top of Victorio Peak and new timbers have now been placed over the shaft entrance.
Photos Courtesy White Sands Missile Range
"The first lime I met Doc Noss was in 1937. He was at our camp when I came down from Burbank Canyon. I'd been prospecting, searching and looking." William Tipton was 18-years-old at the time of the meeting. He had entered into an informal agreement with two other men. The agreement was that they would work together to look for a fabled treasure in the Caballo Mountains. They had already been camped on the west side of the mountains for a number of days when Noss happened onto their camp. "After due introductions with him and his wife, and somebody else who was there, we sat down to talk." Tipton recalled. "he stated his purpose." That purpose was his search for a fabled treasure located either in the Caballo Mountains or 50 miles east in the Jornada del Muerto. "he began to talk about how he had certain psychic powers and with this power he could for see. With this power he could visualize this thing the treasure and see where it was. He told us if we worked together we could take it. "Then Noss walked over lo one of our camp chairs." Tiplon said. "He placed the palms of his hands on the back of the chair. Then he lifted it off the ground. There was no way that I could see that he was holding onto the chair. "After that he walked over to a piece of lumber on the ground. As best as I can remember it was a 1 by 2 and about 10 feel long. "Again he put his palms on the board, and not holding onto it, he lifted that off the ground. I thought this guy was great. I stood there until midnight with my mouth open and my eyes bugged out listening to him. He kept coming back to the treasure trove." Fascination turned to doubts though as the young Tipton became more familiar with the strange man from Hatch. Today William Tipton is a geologist with the local office of the Bureau of Land Management. He had grown up around the area of the Caballo Mountains where he first met Noss. As a child he had been intrigued with rocks, stones and minerals. He carried this interest into his formative years and prior to entering New Mexico BLM he decided to become a geologist. The morning after that first meeting. Noss and the young Tipton went deer hunting. As they walked along the mountain range Tipton began to get an insight of the man who claimed "he could see." "Noss was a braggart." Tiplon said. "He was a very good story teller. he was good al it. And this, of course, impressed me. he attracted people. His bad point was that he was a braggart and he wanted to be tough. Even as a youngster I figured it was a bluff, a front. "He was a very intelligent man. no question about that. He might have been slightly nuts. 'Logically imbalanced' is another term we use today. Noss wasn't all that educated." Tipton continued, "he was not a doctor, although he called himself one." I was at his office in Truth or Consequences a time or two and there were lots of people there. He claims to be a foot doctor." The area where Noss had his office had formerly been known as Hot Springs, because of the natural warm pools of water in the vicinity. Tipton said Noss would prescribe warm mud treatments to his patients." And with a little rubbing of an ointment. the warm mud and his soothing psychological approach" he would claim a cure for aching feet. "He was one of a kind." Tipton said, "he had a tremendous personality. Being a youngster I was really impressed with him at first. He could convince you of almost anything and change your bad mood to a good one just when you came into his presence. It was the way he greeted you and I guess it was the way he put it, 'his magnetic personality', that's what he used to call it." Tipton goes on. "But he was merely trying to edge in on something, he was putting together information from earlier sources and our knowledge of the area so he could make a discovery. "And to me he became so obnoxious." The former prospector turned geologist quit the partnership with his two other friends shortly after his acquaintance with Noss. "The rest of the group quit soon afterward too. There were two reasons for quitting. First they ran out of money. Second, they began to see in Noss what I had seen before. I had spent a few days in the field with him and the more I talked to him the more convinced I became he was nothing more than a phony." Tipton doubts very much that Noss found the treasure he claims, at least not in the Victorio Peak area. "I think that at one time there was a treasure in the Caballo Mountains," Tipton stated. "But it has been moved by some unknowns. Then they transferred the site to Victorio Peak. "if the treasure." be emphasized. "They moved the site to Victorio Peak." This was done, he said, to divert attention from the Caballo Mountain region. As to the source of the treasure Tipton speculated it either came from placer mines in the area or was accumulated by robbers or renegade Indians. "There were limestone monuments in the Caballo Mountains and somehow they were related to the treasure." When Tipton was a young prospector with his two friends they had a map. "On this map there were five granite points and each one of these points had a limestone monument on it. Whoever built these things and what they mean I'll never know. But there they were. I saw them. "They were about five feel high and stood up prominent. Supposedly if you had the right information and the map' you could go from these monuments to the treasure trove. "The mistake me and my partners made was that we were looking for it all in one place. I believe now that it was buried in various locations in the Caballo Mountains. '"that's why I say somebody might have found it then they transferred the site to Victorio Peak, "that is why I don't think it exists anymore."
Las Cruces Sun-News from Las Cruces, New Mexico · Page 17
Click to expand...
I am only showing what I find and nothing is generalized.
No, I have not read the book. Thanks Mike
I personally knew Mr. Gaddis when he was alive.
 

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The first (and glaring) issue I have with your source is that several of the dates are waaaaaaaay off:

1. Supposedly three bars of metal, believed to be held by the U.S. Mint in Denver, said to have been receipted for In M.E. Noss. in the amount of approximately $90.000.00 since 1,July of 1911.

2. They grey had been oxidation and the bar was gold. Later Noss told friends, and treasure hunting partners, he removed 88 of the gold bars between 1917 and 1918.

The story also does not show evidence of any gold bars, or fake gold bars for that matter. Every reference to any bar or bars has the disclaimer words like "presumably" "supposedly" in the hands/possession of ......whatever.

The whole Tipton Story is all opinion from one guy that didn't like Doc. He didn't like Doc, so you think somebody that said "And to me he became so obnoxious." would have something nice to say about the man. So what if Doc was a braggart. So what if he was a bully. So what if he called himself a Foot Doctor (his business made him a good bit of money making peoples' feet feel better). So what if he got drunk and pulled his pistol on a waitress that refused to serve him more booze.

As I type this, I am looking at a picture of Colonel C. W. Horzmann holding a large gold bar that had been cut in half to prove it was gold all the way through.

Mike
 

OCR or Optical Character Recognition, the program that is used by all our copy machines and scanners are not 100% accurate, especially in the 70's. The story from the newspaper had been scanned to get it digitized. There were many mistakes from scanning in the story. (go look at the source page to see how bad it was), but it seems that a person from New Mexico could go get copies of the probate document that the story is quoted from. With that document it would at least be the start of what was really known from Doc's death. Also Whomever is retrieving that Document should get the actual court discussion on settlement. If there was actual gold it would show in the amounts owed to each claimant. Instead of fighting the story go to the sources and get the real scoop. Am only trying help you find the real truth without a bunch of guessing. It appears that Las Cruces, N.M. newspaper had a copy of the document, but I would go to the courthouse and get a certified copy. Then you can argue points with the government.
http://www.doi.gov/foia/upload/FY2011doilog.pdf
 

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Mike, don't keep us all in suspense, which of those 4 photos is the real dore bars?
 

Matt,

The third pic of the little bars with the quarter are gold dore bars.

Sailaway,

Lets say the OCR is the problem, and that your source says "Later Noss told friends, and treasure hunting partners, he removed 88 of the gold bars between 1917 and 1918." Lets say the original page said 1937 and 1938. That is wrong as well. Ova Noss said that Doc didn't bring up the first bar until 1939. He didn't bring any up because he thought they were pig iron. He only brought up the first bar in 1939 because Ova asked to see one.

Doc found the caves under VP in 1937. We know the story about deer hunting was pure BS. So many people think that because Doc didn't tell the truth about certain aspects of his story, that the whole thing was BS. A prime example is the story of Benny Samaniego. Doc gave Benny a gold bar and the Spanish Armor. Benny agreed that if asked, he would say that the Armor came from the Caballos. COMPLETELY understandable. Some people think that because of that nothing he says can be trusted. After working for Doc, Benny suddenly came into a lot of money. He bought his house with cash, and when he died, he had $73,000 in the bank. Granted this was no Willie Douthit, but for someone like Benny, that was an awful lot of money.

If I were to find a cave of treasure, then I can guarantee I would obfuscate its location to a point where people that didn't know me well would probably think I was either crazy or a big liar. If people really think you have a source of hidden wealth, it would be very difficult to leave home without being followed. If people think you're nuts, then they leave you alone!

Mike
 

And again we find the experts making such comments as : " No one doubts that Doc had genuine Gold Bars "

I have always found it a wonder , that people whom make such statements without concrete evidence to such ,
state it so authoritatively .

Here are a few points to consider when addressing this enigma referred to as The " Doc Noss Legacy .

1. Hirst was a Secret Service Agent , investigating claims of fraud conducted by Doc Noss .

It is assured that the Federal Government would not engage in expenditure of such an investigation ,
without concrete evidential properties apparent concerning the claims .

Assured as well , Hirst would abstain from compiling false statements in his investigative reports to
his superiors .

Hirst did indeed state in his reports , the Noss Bars he took into custody , were NOT Gold .

A Bit on the excuse that Noss had fake bars as a safe guard against con men he did not trust .

Are thinking human people also to believe that Noss bleached a Brown Buffalo White to bring in the New World ?

The production of Fake Gold Bars to fool would be con men , makes absolutely no sense whatsoever .

I can attest to where I first heard that claim .

in the year 2000 , I visited Jerry Cheatum of the ONFP Group .

When I pointed out to him , that a huge inventory of what he was working with , were false claims , hearsay , and
down right lies .

I went further to point out to Jerry , that the photo he had just shown me of the La Rue Bars , that Doc supposedly found
at V.P. were FAKES , These Bars are pictured in the Book : " One Hundred Tons of Gold "
as supplied to the Author David Chandler by Ova Noss .

At that point in the conversation , Jerry , pensive and musing , turned his chin to the left in my direction and stated directly
to me ,,,,,

" Yeah , I know that , but see , Doc made fake bars in case some one tried to rob him "

I just had to smile , owing to the fact , that I myself had been for decades involved in my families own Treasure Legacy ,
and have met many people afflicted with the Treasure bug to such extent , and with such fervent HOPE to make
a find , that they create within their minds , delusional scenarios to placate and support their dreams .

Here I will address a few known facts , that were revealed through gaining access to concrete evidence .


To wit : Despite the statements made by such people as Tony Jolley , not one single " Noss Bar " of genuine
Gold content , has ever been presented to prove any of the multitude of claims made by many of
the so-called insiders , that support the Noss Claims .

NOT ONE GOLD BAR .

A personal experience with genuine La Rue Treasure , and this I handled and know to be such .

La Rue did not engrave his bars with his surname La Rue .

In fact , a very few were marked with anything at all .

it was a Strike mark used by La Rue , a simple representation of a Cup .

The top of the strike mark looks like the Omega sign turned upside down
a stem proceeds downward from the center of the transverse curve , and that stem is terminated with a crossbar .

The exact same symbol is carved in several sites throughout the Organ Mountains .

I state emphatically , that Doc Noss did not find La Rue Bars at Victorio Peak .
 

"it was a Strike mark used by La Rue , a simple representation of a Cup .

The top of the strike mark looks like the Omega sign turned upside down
a stem proceeds downward from the center of the transverse curve , and that stem is terminated with a crossbar .

The exact same symbol is carved in several sites throughout the Organ Mountains ."

something like this ?......

twoheartsB-4 cup.png
 

somehiker said:
"it was a Strike mark used by La Rue , a simple representation of a Cup .

The top of the strike mark looks like the Omega sign turned upside down
a stem proceeds downward from the center of the transverse curve , and that stem is terminated with a crossbar .

The exact same symbol is carved in several sites throughout the Organ Mountains ."

something like this ?......

View attachment 1109454
Click to expand...

Wow - that is impressive. Was this found in the AZ?NM region? Are you able to share where, if even in a general way?

We need to correct something here though. Mr. Snow recently described the symbol in your photo as similar or the same as the strike mark of Padre LaRue, but I think he is confused. A few years ago, he posted a photo of what he identified as the LaRue strike mark found in the Organ Mountains http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/v...ictorio-peak-documents-symbols-artifacts.html (Post #150, 5/12/2012).

However, Mr. Snow has previously described the symbol in your photo as the strike mark of Solomon - this during discussions of possible BCE Mediterranean expeditions into the American Southwest, presumably arriving in Phoenician ships. These discussions have occurred numerous times on TNet and other forums, but I don't have a link handy. The point is, the cup symbology, such as in your photo, and other petroglyphs depicting Mediterranean cultural icons such as Tanit, have been located in the SW. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/victorio-peak/111197-victorio-peak-update-2.html Post#119, 10/14/2014.
 

Somehiker, are there any other photos of that mark from straight on and closer?
 

sdcfia said:
Wow - that is impressive. Was this found in the AZ?NM region? Are you able to share where, if even in a general way?

We need to correct something here though. Mr. Snow recently described the symbol in your photo as similar or the same as the strike mark of Padre LaRue, but I think he is confused. A few years ago, he posted a photo of what he identified as the LaRue strike mark found in the Organ Mountains http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/v...ictorio-peak-documents-symbols-artifacts.html (Post #150, 5/12/2012).

However, Mr. Snow has previously described the symbol in your photo as the strike mark of Solomon - this during discussions of possible BCE Mediterranean expeditions into the American Southwest, presumably arriving in Phoenician ships. These discussions have occurred numerous times on TNet and other forums, but I don't have a link handy. The point is, the cup symbology, such as in your photo, and other petroglyphs depicting Mediterranean cultural icons such as Tanit, have been located in the SW. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/victorio-peak/111197-victorio-peak-update-2.html Post#119, 10/14/2014.
Click to expand...


SDCFIA,

Roger gets a little confused sometimes. He forgets little things like Tony Jolley who bought a ranch with the ten bars he recovered in the early sixties of the 110 he and Doc reburied the night before Doc was murdered, as well as the two still sitting in the US Mint.

Mike

Mike
 

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