Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700s COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

[ModernMiner]

Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

I'm hoping like heck this is what I think it is. I'm hoping this is a piece of Spanish silver. If so, it's by far my best coin ever! Can someone tell me what it is? Age? Is it real?
I can make out the following:
"SPAN ET IN?" on one side,
and "Carolus" on the other side.
If it were all in one piece it would be about the size of a half dollar maybe.
The edge has strange symbols on it too.
I was hunting around in the field next to the old 1830 house in the Morrisville battlefield area today.
I will post my other finds tomorrow. I am a bit excited right now, so I wanted to get this piece posted first. I almost didn't even bother digging this up. Just before this I had dug up a piece of wire, and filled in the hole. Not even a foot away I got another signal. I thought it would be another piece of wire, so I wasn't going to dig it. Now I am VERY glad I did.
Please tell me this is the real thing.
The Mighty Tesoro may have done me proud again.
-MM-

 

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[Don in SJ]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Could someone tell me what in the heck they used in those days to cut up the reales with? Hammer and chisel?
-MM-

I posed that question to the C4 group (Colonial Coin Collectors Club) and one response said this, which makes sense. "I believe shears, chisel and mallet and axe were all used."

So, I guess someone familiar with using the tools on metal should be able to tell which type of tool was used to cut the coin. By that I mean, by the angles of the cut, if one angle or two, that might indicate shears versus a chisel or axe.

Don

 

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[Zephyr]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Your piece looks like the "4 bits" in the lower right corner:

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/pirateimages/csst1.jpg

(Sorry, I couldn't find better front/back pics.) I have similar replicas from the same company. They're pewter(?) and plated with something that flakes off. If yours is the same fake like the above, somebody probably hacked it up with some metal shears while playing around.

If your piece is authentic, it would be closer to this:

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1782-8reales.html

I have to vote with my suspicions that it's a modern fake.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Your piece looks like the "4 bits" in the lower right corner:

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/pirateimages/csst1.jpg

(Sorry, I couldn't find better front/back pics.) I have similar replicas from the same company. They're pewter(?) and plated with something that flakes off. If yours is the same fake like the above, somebody probably hacked it up with some metal shears while playing around.

If your piece is authentic, it would be closer to this:

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1782-8reales.html

I have to vote with my suspicions that it's a modern fake.

The only consideration I would give to that thought is if your modern copies have very sloppy lettering which I can't imagine is the case being the process is so much easier today. This coin looks crudely done, not like any modern copies I have seen.

I also wouldn't jump staight from legitimate issue to modern copy without giving thought to contempory forgery. I do see that a lot though, people who don't understand or don't appreciate these types of coins and call a fake, a fake. Not saying this about you in particular but I know there are many people who are this way.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Your piece looks like the "4 bits" in the lower right corner:

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/pirateimages/csst1.jpg

(Sorry, I couldn't find better front/back pics.) I have similar replicas from the same company. They're pewter(?) and plated with something that flakes off. If yours is the same fake like the above, somebody probably hacked it up with some metal shears while playing around.

If your piece is authentic, it would be closer to this:

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1782-8reales.html

I have to vote with my suspicions that it's a modern fake.

The only consideration I would give to that thought is if your modern copies have very sloppy lettering which I can't imagine is the case being the process is so much easier today. This coin looks crudely done, not like any modern copies I have seen.

I also wouldn't jump staight from legitimate issue to modern copy without giving thought to contempory forgery. I do see that a lot though, people who don't understand or don't appreciate these types of coins and call a fake, a fake. Not saying this about you in particular but I know there are many people who are this way.

JUST LOOKED UP. I didn't realize other coins have been posted in the thread. If the comments I replied to aren't for the original coin in the thread please just ignore.

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Your piece looks like the "4 bits" in the lower right corner:

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/pirateimages/csst1.jpg

(Sorry, I couldn't find better front/back pics.) I have similar replicas from the same company. They're pewter(?) and plated with something that flakes off. If yours is the same fake like the above, somebody probably hacked it up with some metal shears while playing around.

If your piece is authentic, it would be closer to this:

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1782-8reales.html

I have to vote with my suspicions that it's a modern fake.

Zephyr,
Just curious what you are basing your "suspicions" on for this piece being a "modern fake"?
Nothing flaking off on my piece as you mentioned on fake pieces.
Would the other piece posted by Derek above also be a fake?
I'll stick with a 1700's counterfeit as Don and some other professionals verified.
You're entitled to your opinion though.
-MM-

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Your piece looks like the "4 bits" in the lower right corner:

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/pirateimages/csst1.jpg

(Sorry, I couldn't find better front/back pics.) I have similar replicas from the same company. They're pewter(?) and plated with something that flakes off. If yours is the same fake like the above, somebody probably hacked it up with some metal shears while playing around.

If your piece is authentic, it would be closer to this:

http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1782-8reales.html

I have to vote with my suspicions that it's a modern fake.

The only consideration I would give to that thought is if your modern copies have very sloppy lettering which I can't imagine is the case being the process is so much easier today. This coin looks crudely done, not like any modern copies I have seen. I also wouldn't jump staight from legitimate issue to modern copy without giving thought to contempory forgery. I do see that a lot though, people who don't understand or don't appreciate these types of coins and call a fake, a fake. Not saying this about you in particular but I know there are many people who are this way.

Iron Patch,
I totally agree with you.
-MM-

 

[Derek752]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Where mine came from was the site of an actuall town that existed between roughly 1795/6 and grew to booming between 1799 to 1820'ish. Then with the completion of the Erie canal the town folk moved to greener pastures and the town slowly dwindled to nothing but a few homes.

Where we searched was the site of the town founders home and seperate tavern very close to his house. Besides the counterfeit we found,never kept count, but my guess is near 200 Lg cents,KG II'2 and KGIII's,several machin mills counterfeits,A 1797 half dime,capped bust silver,spanish 1 reales,2 reales,Dutch coins,Canadian tokens,a cartwheel, Vermont and Connecticut coppers and coins I've even forgotton about.
Besides coins there were hundreds of colonial buttons,war of 1812 buttons, and even a Mass. 8th skull & crossbones button!

Also surface finds of square nails,thousands of pipestems and complete/ incomplete bowls,animal bones,broken clam shells,copper keg taps/spigots,human teeth,thousands of broken pieces of stoneware and cup,dinner plates,brick,and limestones.
We spent nearly 5 springs,summers,and falls since 2001 pounding this particular cornfield. We were the first to discover the site and
it was a treasure hunters dream site!

It sits in a fairly remote area near a prominate stream along a seasonal road and yes it sees traffic but minimual and modern trash is almost non existant except for a small handfull of pulltabs,bottlecaps and tinfoil etc etc that we dug which I atribute to the boys plowing and planting on hot days.

I know this may sound like a dream come true but this site does exist and is the site that got me going on upstate Ny colonial hunting and I have tracked down similar sites since we uncovered that sweet productive cornfield 6 years ago

I guess someone may have dropped a modern replica of a counterfeit Carlos III in that cornfield

I only meantion all of this because I would think the odds of digging a modern replica in the middle of nowhere are higher then digging a 210+/- year old replica. and odds are even much higher ModernMiner and I would dig a near identical replica so many many miles apart.

I have dug 1 time a modern replica gold cobb though!
Long story short my huntin pal planted a copy of a gold cobb at a british blockhouse site for me to find in retaliation for me hiding a plastic gold roman coin along with a nickle the he found 2 weeks after I buried it !

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Where mine came from was the site of an actuall town that existed between roughly 1795/6 and grew to booming between 1799 to 1820'ish. Then with the completion of the Erie canal the town folk moved to greener pastures and the town slowly dwindled to nothing but a few homes.

Where we searched was the site of the town founders home and seperate tavern very close to his house. Besides the counterfeit we found,never kept count, but my guess is near 200 Lg cents,KG II'2 and KGIII's,several machin mills counterfeits,A 1797 half dime,capped bust silver,spanish 1 reales,2 reales,Dutch coins,Canadian tokens,a cartwheel, Vermont and Connecticut coppers and coins I've even forgotton about.
Besides coins there were hundreds of colonial buttons,war of 1812 buttons, and even a Mass. 8th skull & crossbones button!

Also surface finds of square nails,thousands of pipestems and complete/ incomplete bowls,animal bones,broken clam shells,copper keg taps/spigots,human teeth,thousands of broken pieces of stoneware and cup,dinner plates,brick,and limestones.
We spent nearly 5 springs,summers,and falls since 2001 pounding this particular cornfield. We were the first to discover the site and
it was a treasure hunters dream site!

It sits in a fairly remote area near a prominate stream along a seasonal road and yes it sees traffic but minimual and modern trash is almost non existant except for a small handfull of pulltabs,bottlecaps and tinfoil etc etc that we dug which I atribute to the boys plowing and planting on hot days.

I know this may sound like a dream come true but this site does exist and is the site that got me going on upstate Ny colonial hunting and I have tracked down similar sites since we uncovered that sweet productive cornfield 6 years ago

I guess someone may have dropped a modern replica of a counterfeit Carlos III in that cornfield

I only meantion all of this because I would think the odds of digging a modern replica in the middle of nowhere are higher then digging a 210+/- year old replica. and odds are even much higher ModernMiner and I would dig a near identical replica so many many miles apart.

I have dug 1 time a modern replica gold cobb though!
Long story short my huntin pal planted a copy of a gold cobb at a british blockhouse site for me to find in retaliation for me hiding a plastic gold roman coin along with a nickle the he found 2 weeks after I buried it !

You should write a story on here and post these coins! It should make the "Best of Tnet."

BDD...Kirk

 

[weasel606]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

its still from that same time period even if its not the reale deal its still an awesome find from the 1700s ! congrats

 

[vegasmtl]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Even so, very cool find, and it brought up alot of excitement and discussions. I would display it just as proudly as if it were the real deal.
vegasmtl

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Thanks everyone for the replies. When I started this hobby I never imagined finding a coin in the 1800's let along the late 1700's!
My oldest silver up to this point was a 1923 Merc, and my oldest coin was an 1874 IH. I never would have dreamed of finding this piece of reale out in this field. I actually just set out to find some CW relics in this CW area.
I have noticed that a lot of the older coins ARE found out in fields though as shown by a lot of TN members. Don in SJ , BoneDryDetecting, Merf, Crusader, Bavaria Mike, Mirage to name just a few.
I'll be back out there after work tomorrow hoping for more. Still no Barber's for me yet.
Have a great w/end,
MM
-Doug-

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Thanks everyone for the replies. When I started this hobby I never imagined finding a coin in the 1800's let along the late 1700's!
My oldest silver up to this point was a 1923 Merc, and my oldest coin was an 1874 IH. I never would have dreamed of finding this piece of reale out in this field. I actually just set out to find some CW relics in this CW area.
I have noticed that a lot of the older coins ARE found out in fields though as shown by a lot of TN members. Don in SJ , BoneDryDetecting, Merf, Crusader, Bavaria Mike, Mirage to name just a few.
I'll be back out there after work tomorrow hoping for more. Still no Barber's for me yet.
Have a great w/end,
MM
-Doug-

Hey! Where's my membership?

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Thanks everyone for the replies. When I started this hobby I never imagined finding a coin in the 1800's let along the late 1700's!
My oldest silver up to this point was a 1923 Merc, and my oldest coin was an 1874 IH. I never would have dreamed of finding this piece of reale out in this field. I actually just set out to find some CW relics in this CW area.
I have noticed that a lot of the older coins ARE found out in fields though as shown by a lot of TN members. Don in SJ , BoneDryDetecting, Merf, Crusader, Bavaria Mike, Mirage to name just a few.
I'll be back out there after work tomorrow hoping for more. Still no Barber's for me yet.
Have a great w/end,
MM
-Doug-

I don't think my good buddy, Mirage, hunts fields. :P The Berg gang should...Ohia is super old!

Nice piece of eight, Doug!

BDD...Kirk

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Thanks everyone for the replies. When I started this hobby I never imagined finding a coin in the 1800's let along the late 1700's!
My oldest silver up to this point was a 1923 Merc, and my oldest coin was an 1874 IH. I never would have dreamed of finding this piece of reale out in this field. I actually just set out to find some CW relics in this CW area.
I have noticed that a lot of the older coins ARE found out in fields though as shown by a lot of TN members. Don in SJ , BoneDryDetecting, Merf, Crusader, Bavaria Mike, Mirage to name just a few.
I'll be back out there after work tomorrow hoping for more. Still no Barber's for me yet.
Have a great w/end,
MM
-Doug-

Hey! Where's my membership?

Sorry IP.
I was half asleep from Turkey, and couldn't remember everyone. Those are AMAZING coins!!! All field finds?
A BIG congrats to you. I hope I can score just one of those in my lifetime.
-Doug-

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Thanks everyone for the replies. When I started this hobby I never imagined finding a coin in the 1800's let along the late 1700's!
My oldest silver up to this point was a 1923 Merc, and my oldest coin was an 1874 IH. I never would have dreamed of finding this piece of reale out in this field. I actually just set out to find some CW relics in this CW area.
I have noticed that a lot of the older coins ARE found out in fields though as shown by a lot of TN members. Don in SJ , BoneDryDetecting, Merf, Crusader, Bavaria Mike, Mirage to name just a few.
I'll be back out there after work tomorrow hoping for more. Still no Barber's for me yet.
Have a great w/end,
MM
-Doug-

I don't think my good buddy, Mirage, hunts fields. :P The Berg gang should...Ohia is super old!

Nice piece of eight, Doug!

BDD...Kirk

Sorry Kirk, you may be right. Bob, Nate, and Dan hunt woods mainly I think?
-Doug-

 

[romeo-1]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

To me this makes it an even better find!

 

[birdman]

Re: Spanish Silver 8 reale *** UPDATE*** A 1700's COUNTERFEIT !!! @@

Very exciting find! WTG!!