Spanish Missions

PotBelly Jim said:
BLM...ARPA probably applies, as well as needing a treasure trove permit to dig up anything on fed lands...that's why a lot of people don't bother trying to do the right thing, all you get in the end is trouble...the laws and regulations need to be changed so T Hunters get some kind of reward and anything valuable from an historical perspective can be preserved...
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Usually if you see a hole it was empty before it was dug. Metal Detecting isn't easy it takes a lot of skill. You have to dig every target if you want any rewards at all.

One law supersedes all other laws.

It's SSS.

Secure, Shovel and Silence.

In other words, Finders Keepers

Kane springs eh?

You know how those robber stories are. You could be looking for that old cactus stump literally forever.

I heard it was modernized and a mining company used it in the area. This would explain why it looks newer. But an old man that lives near there swears it was once a Hacienda and Mission or Rancheria Vista.
 

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So let me get this straight.

Both you Dave, and Jim, have been to that old structure site along with many others on this forum, but, you guys don't want me posting coordinates?

Is that spot so exclusive no one else should investigate it?

I think RG, Old, and Blake have a right to know!

After all, it is represented on the historical registry (Stone Maps) as one of Travis Tumlinson's Movie sites! They do have a right to know.

Oh, I forgot, Blakes been there already.???

At least a few other folks should know. If you'd like to go there anyone please PM me.
Only thing is I'll travel there and show you where it is if you want to see it. I can meet you at Winkleman when the weather gets cooler.

Don't bring Blake!
 

There's already a write-up about the "mission" online.
GE views, map, photos of the walls and well etc.
It's within the Mescal Mountain OHV recreational area, so not much of a secret.

a photo from the website....

Old Ruins Kearny AZ..jpg
 

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somehiker said:
There's already a write-up about the "mission" online.
GE views, map, photos of the walls and well etc.
It's within the Mescal Mountain OHV recreational area, so not much of a secret.

a photo from the website....

View attachment 1622785
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It's never been a big secret...people in AZ have just learned over time, if you don't want to see a site destroyed, don't tell anyone about it...now, if people go back there and start tearing down walls, digging out the well, etc...not only will the site be destroyed, the BLM will probably start putting up fences, perhaps close down public access to the OHV...it's a vicious cycle...most of the places I treasured growing up are now either destroyed, fenced off, or it's some kind of place that has 100 people crawling all over every time I go out there...so personally, I will NEVER post what little sites remain that haven't been "found" or destroyed yet...and I would never even show a local, like the guy who has the website you mentioned, any of those sites if all he's going to do is put them up all over the internet...
 

Bill Riley said:
So let me get this straight.

Both you Dave, and Jim, have been to that old structure site along with many others on this forum, but, you guys don't want me posting coordinates?

Is that spot so exclusive no one else should investigate it?

I think RG, Old, and Blake have a right to know!

After all, it is represented on the historical registry (Stone Maps) as one of Travis Tumlinson's Movie sites! They do have a right to know.

Oh, I forgot, Blakes been there already.???

At least a few other folks should know. If you'd like to go there anyone please PM me.
Only thing is I'll travel there and show you where it is if you want to see it. I can meet you at Winkleman when the weather gets cooler.

Don't bring Blake!
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Bill...I don't think anyone that regularly posts to this forum is a threat to that site...people have been going there for years...but with the site being discussed in a public forum, it won't be long before something happens...it's just sad to see.

That place is NOT a mission...never was, probably never will be. Period. I don't care how many people want to believe it. The site you were talking about, on Kino's map, is nothing more than a campsite that Capt. Manje set up...this was during their trip up the San Pedro, when they arrived at the confluence of the Gila...they wanted to go up to the Moqui's, but the local Indians talked them out of it...Manje's camp was about where Kearny is, on the west side of the river...they eventually left over land and got back on the Gila a little to the north and west...just because they passed by there, and Capt. Manje set up a campsite, doesn't mean they built a mission miles NE of the site and started digging gold mines...they didn't. They kept going down the Gila.
 

Why then, have you and the others been trading info and experiences about this ruin on T-Net ?
These threads aren't private in any way.
I'm not likely the only one to have used your "clues" to locate that article about it.
 

somehiker said:
Why then, have you and the others been trading info and experiences about this ruin on T-Net ?
These threads aren't private in any way.
I'm not likely the only one to have used your "clues" to locate that article about it.
Click to expand...

Because the cat's been out of the bag on that site for a long time...so how do we protect the sites that haven't been posted on?...this particular site has been posted about before, and I was aware of the other website before Bill even brought this up...My hope, at least, is that by having this discussion, perhaps another site that remains "hidden" from the internet will be treated by us a bit more cautiously...I'm pretty sure that's what Dave was saying too, but I'm sure he'll chime in.

Like Bill said, perhaps the proper course of action for those of us interested in protecting AND EXPLORING those sites, is via PM or e-mail...it's not the guys that love the history of AZ, who are regular posters, that I'm afraid of...just my 2 cents...
 

somehiker said:
Why then, have you and the others been trading info and experiences about this ruin on T-Net ?
These threads aren't private in any way.
I'm not likely the only one to have used your "clues" to locate that article about it.
Click to expand...
maybe we just do it to taunt you Canadians?:dontknow:
 

PotBelly Jim said:
Because the cat's been out of the bag on that site for a long time...so how do we protect the sites that haven't been posted on?...this particular site has been posted about before, and I was aware of the other website before Bill even brought this up...My hope, at least, is that by having this discussion, perhaps another site that remains "hidden" from the internet will be treated by us a bit more cautiously...I'm pretty sure that's what Dave was saying too, but I'm sure he'll chime in.

Like Bill said, perhaps the proper course of action for those of us interested in protecting AND EXPLORING those sites, is via PM or e-mail...it's not the guys that love the history of AZ, who are regular posters, that I'm afraid of...just my 2 cents...
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people like jim and i have been in arizona long before the idiots from other states showed up and felt the need to destroy and rob our historic sites....for some reason the snowbirds feel the need to take a piece of arizona home with them....i wish they would just take a river rock instead of a piece of a stone wall from a historic ranch...they stomp all over my mining claims and take gold ore and lapidary rock..ignoring the federal mining claim signs i have posted...i've caught a few of them red handed and its always either a canadian..or someone from Minnesota or Wisconsin...they have no respect for our land or property...the main reason all of our desert roads are being shut down is because of the caravans of quads and side by side's tearing up the place and creating tons of dust...i sure do wish you guys would ruin your own states and countries instead of violating ours:BangHead:
 

Dave, now we know how the Indians felt when we showed up!:laughing7: Seriously tho, when people trash and steal from claims, I hope they also get to make friends with some other locals, such as a coontail or green mohave...and hopefully the snake gets away before they can kill it...

I don't know what it is about people, it's like they behave themselves just fine until they get out in the desert...it's like they feel like no one is watching so the worst comes out in them and they do stupid stuff...like steal or vandalize stuff...or tear up the roads or go tearing off across areas with no trails...they get to go back to wherever they came from, while the people who actually live there just get more and more of their heritage and public lands taken away from them...sad...and I know you and SH like to get the LDM fight club started when there's nothing interesting going on in the forums, a sport which is entertaining, but to be fair...Somehiker has probably walked miles and miles through our backyard and nobody would ever know he had been there...nothing missing, nothing disturbed, all left as it should be...he's on our side...take care, Jim
 

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azdave35 said:
people like jim and i have been in arizona long before the idiots from other states showed up and felt the need to destroy and rob our historic sites....for some reason the snowbirds feel the need to take a piece of arizona home with them....i wish they would just take a river rock instead of a piece of a stone wall from a historic ranch...they stomp all over my mining claims and take gold ore and lapidary rock..ignoring the federal mining claim signs i have posted...i've caught a few of them red handed and its always either a canadian..or someone from Minnesota or Wisconsin...they have no respect for our land or property...the main reason all of our desert roads are being shut down is because of the caravans of quads and side by side's tearing up the place and creating tons of dust...i sure do wish you guys would ruin your own states and countries instead of violating ours:BangHead:
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I could reply in kind, with reference to similar patterns of behavior amongst some of those US citizens who own vacation and retirement properties up here. Or come for the hunting seasons that run from Sept.-Dec. But I haven't complained before, so I won't start now.
Most of us think of them as friends.
 

PotBelly Jim said:
Dave, now we know how the Indians felt when we showed up!:laughing7: Seriously tho, when people trash and steal from claims, I hope they also get to make friends with some other locals, such as a coontail or green mohave...and hopefully the snake gets away before they can kill it...

I don't know what it is about people, it's like they behave themselves just fine until they get out in the desert...it's like they feel like no one is watching so the worst comes out in them and they do stupid stuff...like steal or vandalize stuff...or tear up the roads or go tearing off across areas with no trails...they get to go back to wherever they came from, while the people who actually live there just get more and more of their heritage and pulbic lands taken away from them...sad...and I know you and SH like to get the LDM fight club started when there's nothing interesting going on in the forums, a sport which is entertaining, but to be fair...Somehiker has probably walked miles and miles through our backyard and nobody would ever know he had been there...nothing missing, nothing disturbed, all left as it should be...he's on our side...take care, Jim
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jim..i just like to taunt the stone map nuts...i mean no offense and i dont think they take much offense ..its just entertainment to me:occasion14:
 

somehiker said:
I could reply in kind, with reference to similar patterns of behavior amongst some of those US citizens who own vacation and retirement properties up here. Or come for the hunting seasons that run from Sept.-Dec. But I haven't complained before, so I won't start now.
Most of us think of them as friends.
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you did ask...lol...
 

somehiker said:
I didn't expect your answer to make me wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to take a canoe down the Cahulawassee River.
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lol..you know the old saying..dont put a nickel in the juke box if you dont want to hear the music:headbang:
 

It is where one finds it...Wherever that might be...

I will continue to state that the PSM's do lead to the royal platinum bearing mining real that was ordered closed by the Spanish Realm...But what do I know...

It may be in Durango...Or in NM...Who can say???Heck...It could b in Nayarit, Sinaloa, Sonora, or even any other part of New Mexico...Who can say for certain???

Ed T
 

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