So Unbelievable, it Must be Counterfeit - Steel 1944 Cent

madwest

madwest

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Jun 24, 2011
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I haven't posted my finds or my thoughts here in quite some time - all in protest. I just so strongly disagreed with the overall atmosphere and with how . . . never mind. Let's talk coin.

I found a 1944 steel cent in a bag from a new pick up bank - it was kicked to the far right by my Gen2 Frankensorter. I know that it is steel because it is STRONGLY attracted to a magnet (1944 Steel Cent - YouTube). My guess is that it is counterfeit - mostly because it's weight is 10% high compared to a 1943 steel.

I'm posting the find here, but not discussing it. I am actively discussing it at Realcent.org ? View topic - Found 1944 Steel Cent

HH
 

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jeff of pa said:
although the 2nd. 4 doesn't look exactly like the first, (a little High & or Smaller) ...

You should be able to tell though IF the second 4 is a paste on ...
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It is pretty clear that the 4 is not pasted on. It does look awkward, but there are no tell-tale signs of manipulated date. The date, clarity wise, is more convincing than many of the other features.

Out of 5 local "experts," only 1 even mentioned a concern with the date. All 4 others cited other concerns. Maybe those other problems were just bigger problems, who knows.

As stated, I've had 5 local experts look at it. One is the top cent error-expert in the Midwest. He was 95% certain it is fake. The other 4 were 90%, 90%, 98%, and 100% certain (respectively) that it is fake.

The LCS that I do most business with offered to have it authenticated for $50. I think that is pretty standard (probably $35 his cost). It would take 4-6wk.

I might do it even though I know the outcome. It would be the cost for peace of mind.

It was fun seeing the reactions of each of these guys when the magnet stuck hard to it. That surprised them every time. I've had fun with it.
 

Personally, I would have to have it authenticated madwest. $50 vs. always thinking its remotely possible that you have a coin worth tens of thousands of dollars+ collecting dust would make it a "no-brainer" IMO. Plus, if it is real you'll need to have it authenticated to sell it anyway.
 

foiler said:
I looked at eleven 1944 cents I have here. All of them have even sized "4's. Your photo as it appears to me shows an altered second "4". It appears to me to be slightly smaller which could indicate tampering. For the potential value if its real, it would be worth having it graded.
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Thanks for the idea foiler. It's been awhile since I rolled wheats, so I grabbed all of the loose '44s. Out of 63 plain (like my "fake"); 30 D mints; and 8 S mints, I saw a lot of variation in the look of the date. However, nothing looked much like the "fake" date. I was surprised to find a near AU 1944 plain mixed in with the general population. I usually segregate the AU wheats. So, it was a useful exercise.

ArkieBassMan said:
Personally, I would have to have it authenticated madwest. $50 vs. always thinking its remotely possible that you have a coin worth tens of thousands of dollars+ collecting dust would make it a "no-brainer" IMO. Plus, if it is real you'll need to have it authenticated to sell it anyway.
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Thanks ABM. That's how I'm leaning right now. The nagging what-if would pester me.
 

you might be able to get a better deal by sending it out for authentication with a few other coins. I think I saw on the PCGS website they charge less per coin in groups. might be a good chance too get a few others graded in your collection you've always wondered about.

I can't decide on this one. the mass is the most interesting aspect. it seems to me as though alteration would reduce the mass of the coin, but I could be naive on that. I always assumed they would shave it down. While the 2nd 4 of course is higher and smaller than the first, to me the field fo the coin around this 4 extending to the edge looks darker. I can't fully tell from the picture, but it almost looks like increased wear. not sure how that would effect the 4, but I've seen some pretty strange looking numbers in dates before.

I really can't figure out how the mass of a coin can be increased, it seems to me it has to be based on metal composition differences. How reproducible were the weights in planchets made in 1944? anyways, just my thoughts. nice coin.
 

This ones easy just cut the corner off and see if its copper
 

TimZim said:
This ones easy just cut the corner off and see if its copper
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I really hope that is a joke. Besides, it wouldn't slap onto a magnet like that if it were only plated.
 

50 dollars is certainly worth the peace of mind in my opinion..
 

I would definitely pay the $50 because it would answer the question if you have a $50,000 coin or not. HH
 

sidenote - just because a coin is extremely rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that it is counterfeit. I have some coins that I want to get authenticated. A couple of nickels with errors on them. Went to look for a coin book about errors and my LCS had two books but man, at 40 bucks apeice. Ouch.

Sincerely, Garoulady
 

sagittarius98 said:
It was legally minted, unlike the 1933 double eagle. I doubt the Secret Service cares about a fake 1944, I would just stamp it "copy."
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The only penny that is not legal to own is the 1974 aluminum cent. 1,571,167 were minted but were never released and melted down.

There is one in the Smithsonian. Another, called the Toven specimen, was found on the floor when dropped by a congressmen who was on the committee to vote for or against the new alloy cent. A Capitol police officer picked it up and attempted to give it to him, however, thinking it was a dime, he told the officer to keep it.

This was graded and is the only one known to exist outside of the Smithsonian. I am unclear on how the officer was allowed to have it graded and keep it as all other information I read suggests if one was ever found, it would be illegal to own.

MU
 

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I Really doubt that it is counterfeit who would counterfeit a penny if you're going to counterfeit anything which is wrong and I do not condone it most Counterfeiters will stay with $20,$50,$100 Anyways i put a few old wheat pennies in some CLR just to clean some green lime off just a quick dip i left one in clr for 2 weeks its bright but the cooler looks weird
 

Great story... Thanks for sharing the knowlege on the background of the coin!!
HH
Buff
MentalUnrest said:
The only penny that is not legal to own is the 1974 aluminum cent. 1,571,167 were minted but were never released and melted down.

There is one in the Smithsonian. Another, called the Toven specimen, was found on the floor when dropped by a congressmen who was on the committee to vote for or against the new alloy cent. A Capitol police officer picked it up and attempted to give it to him, however, thinking it was a dime, he told the officer to keep it.

This was graded and is the only one known to exist outside of the Smithsonian. I am unclear on how the officer was allowed to have it graded and keep it as all other information I read suggests if one was ever found, it would be illegal to own.

MU
Click to expand...
 

marz said:
I Really doubt that it is counterfeit who would counterfeit a penny if you're going to counterfeit anything which is wrong and I do not condone it most Counterfeiters will stay with $20,$50,$100 Anyways i put a few old wheat pennies in some CLR just to clean some green lime off just a quick dip i left one in clr for 2 weeks its bright but the cooler looks weird
Click to expand...

Uh, I think if they can make one that is convincing enough, it's worth between $75,000 and $100,000 dollars. So even if they can have it unslabbed and trick someone into dropping $1k on it, thinking they got a good deal, that sounds like a perfect scam to me. Denomination doesn't matter, value does when it comes to counterfeits.
 

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