🥇 BANNER So I found a sword!!!

[JustKeepDigging]

Found it in the woods about 3 feet deep. Found using my Whites Industrial PRL-1 which goes pretty deep so I use it for going hunting in the woods. I honestly thought it was an old pipe of some sort but I guess not! It's marked "1851" "Mitteh" anyone have any info on that? Had no luck online.

 

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[ivan salis]

I stand corrected * "duh" is on me -- normally I'm much better on my history facts * -- but the 3rd Seminole war was indeed from 1855 to 1858 * with the sword being a 1851 type (marked on it no less) --it could have been used in the 3rd Seminole war and still been around for the civil war as well -- swords unlike guns are generally thought of as "military" weapons -- a gun can be used for hunting -- a sword is not thought of as a hunting tool too much..---- swords if found in homes of NON UNION families in Florida that had men of "military age"(at least in my area around Callahan ) would get the men and boys older than 16 arrested , your home burnt (wife and children younger than 16 thrown in to the wilds to fend for themselves) and livestock taken away (that's what happened to "rebels and rebel supporters" in these parts )-- the homes of joel wingate and jones were burnt by union troops --jones livestock was also taken as was higginbottoms horses during the raid upon Callahan --also giegers slaves were freed and taken away as well -- according to capt j j dickersons reports.

 

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[jeff of pa]

I would vote banner, but the condition is suspect to the reason I won't.

just an FYI TreasureNet - Real Or Fake?

Only thing suspect to me is when it was buried.
this would not be a Deal breaker on the Banner,
Just Personal Curiosity considering condition.

condition of Belt plates surprise me on occasion, But are Brass .
Is the sword Not Steel ?

Just waiting on More from the OP please

 

[MuckyBottles]

just an FYI TreasureNet - Real Or Fake?

Only thing suspect to me is when it was buried.
this would not be a Deal breaker on the Banner,
Just Personal Curiosity considering condition.

Belt plats surprise me on occasion, But are Brass .
Is the sword Not Steel ?

Since I have been Read the riot act..I will not state my p/o..nice find anyway

 

[ivan salis]

yes the blade is steel * remember the Germans have made very very good steel for a long long time--they are well known to be fine knife makers ( former chef for 27 years) -- the superior nature of the german steel and if it was buried in oiled cloth could account for its condition (blade not having rusted away )..., the cloth buried in might be a old uniform or flag which would really help in the "when was it buried" time line" as well as why ..

lovely sword ...

 

[jeff of pa]

Since I have been Read the riot act..I will not state my p/o..nice find anyway

Riot Act ? Just a Friendly Reminder

 

[Davers]

oh and sorry,if belt buckles from the period routinely make it,How is this not a banner....

Oh you don't Know

Imo, It's All about TN Rules.

Davers

 

[MuckyBottles]

yes the blade is steel * remember the Germans have made very very good steel for a long long time--they are well known to be fine knife makers ( former chef for 27 years) -- the superior nature of the german steel and if it was buried in oiled cloth could account for its condition (blade not having rusted away )..., the cloth buried in might be a old uniform or flag which would really help in the "when was it buried" time line" as well as why ..

lovely sword ...

I am very familiar with steel from Germany (krupp, steel from Solingen) but if was wrapped in a preservative soaked fabric such as oil, wouldn't that in itself preserve aspects of the handle? Or other aspects if the sword that are missing? Not trying to be argumentative, just playing devil's advocate.

 

[ivan salis]

with the third Seminole war being (1855 to 1858) and the sword being a 1851 model type its possible that it could have been "issued" for use by local florida troops during that time frame and then when the war broke out --buried by a union loyalist when the state went rebel or a confederate loyalist when union troops took over the area..

 

[Davers]

I should have finished the thread before posting.

Good to see everyone Following the TN Rules.

Great Find OP

I must agree with Jeff , The place where it was dug Must have been Protected Somehow , ie, An Old Structure or a bunch of real Thirsty Trees.

OP Did You Clean the Sword in any Way?

Davers

 

[MawkusD]

Congrats man. That's awesome!!

 

[ivan salis]

wood eating bugs and grubs will often eat away the wood while the oil soak cloth might protect the steel from rusting away --the bugs will chew right thru the cloth to get at the wood of course they can't do squat as far as the steel goes but the wood oh yah its toast and the fine wire wrapping once they chew thru the cloth to get to the wood over time will rot away as well -- as well as the handle wrapping -- so not too surprising no handle wood , wrapping or wire wrap left ---the steel blade and brass guard are about what I would expect to find on a oil cloth wrapped civil war sword at 3 foot --I must admit its in good shape.

 

[JustKeepDigging]

Ok! So for the ones who don't believe I found it, then don't! I know what I found. Anyways, It was found in the woods next to an old abandoned house under a stable here in Jupiter close to my house! It was buried in some kind of sack. The sword did feel sticky before I cleaned it, so that may be the oil? The cloth it nasty though. I have it sitting outside currently. Tried my best to find some info on it but it's just a plain old rotted gross sack. I'm still in shock that I found something like this here in my own town less then a mile of where I live. I'm usually on the beach!

 

[jeff of pa]

Ok! So for the ones who don't believe I found it, then don't! I know what I found. Anyways, It was found in the woods next to an old abandoned house under a stable here in Jupiter close to my house! It was buried in some kind of sack. The sword did feel sticky before I cleaned it, so that may be the oil? The cloth it nasty though. I have it sitting outside currently. Tried my best to find some info on it but it's just a plain old rotted gross sack. I'm still in shock that I found something like this here in my own town less then a mile of where I live. I'm usually on the beach!

Please try & photograph the Sack. from different angles.

I don't know from the rest.

But I really Wanna See it

 

[MuckyBottles]

Nobody is challenging the validity of your find, no need to get defensive. All I am saying, soil conditions play a big part in conservation, I have found bayonets, sword frags etc from the revolution in my parents backyard. Albeit at least 100 years older, and not a fraction of an inch of the artifacts I have found and continue to find nowhere that condition. That being said, the soil conditions in florida, at least in Hillsborough County, are not conducive to preserving ferrous metal, given the high salinity and high limestone/calcium in the soil.

 

[terpfan]

I am very familiar with steel from Germany (krupp, steel from Solingen) but if was wrapped in a preservative soaked fabric such as oil, wouldn't that in itself preserve aspects of the handle? Or other aspects if the sword that are missing? Not trying to be argumentative, just playing devil's advocate.

All very good points MB. Jeff is dead-on when he suggests there must be some extenuating circumstances, like soil conditions or a more recent burial. The OP is certainly very fortunate that conditions were good to keep deterioration to a minimum. The details left on the blade, like the date, are incredibly clear.

When I recovered the remains of a French Model 1767 Grenadier's sword (from the American Revolution) last year, only the brass grip survived 240 years in our Maryland soil. The steel blade had long since degraded.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...enadier-s-sword-grip-american-revolution.html

 

[ivan salis]

ok --found in a stable area (thus protected by the building ) buried in a sack (additional protection ) sticky (most likely heavily greased) --all 3 of which would have protected it -- this could easily account for the excellent condition of the steel blade --plus it is high quality steel too boot (german made) --- plus being buried in the barn area * makes me think civil war era even more..find out the history of the property via its land deed past during the civil war / 3rd Seminole war era and you might just find out who the "owner was"

 

[MuckyBottles]

All very good points MB. Jeff is dead-on when he suggests there must be some extenuating circumstances, like soil conditions or a more recent burial. The OP is certainly very fortunate that conditions were good to keep deterioration to a minimum. The details left on the blade, like the date, are incredibly clear.

When I recovered the remains of a French Model 1767 Grenadier's sword (from the American Revolution) last year, only the brass grip survived 240 years in our Maryland soil. The steel blade had long since degraded.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...enadier-s-sword-grip-american-revolution.html

I understand, just the condition is stunning for the age of the sword, I am sure you can understand my skepticism. All in all its a great find, and the OP is a lucky SOB. I can only wish I can find Rev items like that in my parents backyard back in Jersey. .
Maybe someday
View attachment 1048368

 

[jeff of pa]

I understand, just the condition is stunning for the age of the sword, I am sure you can understand my skepticism. All in all its a great find, and the OP is a lucky SOB. I can only wish I can find Rev items like that in my parents backyard back in Jersey. .
Maybe someday
View attachment 1048368

Nice pic .. Looks like a painting

 

[MuckyBottles]

Nice pic .. Looks like a painting

It's absolutely stunning there..it was a blessing growing up with a major revolutionary war encampment in your backyard in which your backyard butts up against. Every time I go there for the holidays I hunt..it's like my little getaway. .
My dream is to find something from Nathaniel Green/Washington/ St.Clair or Gibbs since they all encamped there between 1779-1780..One can dream.
http://www.revolutionarywararchives.org/coldwinter

 

[Beach Papa]

Old too soon, smart too late..... When I was growing up in NJ, I lived on 6 acres remaining from a 300 acre fruit farm. The house was built around late 1800s to early 1900s. Main house, tenant house, barn, fruit packing house and a dozen outbuildings for tractors, storage and working farm activities. Most of the outbuildings had dirt floors in at least a portion of them. Before I ever had a metal detector in my hand, I had found two secret hiding places on the property, clearly used to hide something of value. I found a 16" section of 4" diameter terracotta clay pipe 2' deep in the garden while I was digging a hole to bury a dead rabbit. There was a flat rock on either end of the pipe and there were no other pipes in the area, but the pipe was empty. I also found a hidden compartment in the wall in the barn. I used my pocket knife to slide a drawer out from between the studs. Both times I thought I had found a treasure but alas both hiding places were empty. The story was that there was $20,000 unaccounted for in the original owner's estate when he died, and it was never found. Who knows, with the depression and the US going off the gold standard, the owner might have turned his cash into gold and buried it on his property. The property was sold in 1989 when my mother passed away, and since then the fruit packing house has burned to the ground. I have always wanted to go back and hunt the property with a metal detector. I actually think it was common to bury valuables in the dirt floors inside outbuildings. A dirt floor would be a perfect place to do the digging without being noticed. You may have found just that kind of cache hiding place. Well done. Make sure you look for more where that came from.....